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Suggestions for great performance requested

207.71.192.251
Posted on April 19, 2000 at 20:56:47
jlee


 
Hi,

The following is the list I arranged from Ears and Rob's lists, and I think it would be great if we can suggest some specific recordings for those in part I.

I am thinking of restricting the suggestions for stereo recordings only, because I don't want to scare newbies away with bad recording quality. Also, I would like to have 2-3 suggestions for each, to encourage the beginners to compare the recordings and form their own opinion. What do you think? Any other suggestions?

I have started adding some of my own suggestions, but I don't feel that I'm up to the task for the most part. Feel free to add your suggestion and/or flame mine and make a correction :)

After getting enough suggestions I will post the results. Hopefully we will have it linked to the FAQ.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Part I. The essentials


J.S. Bach: Brandenburg Concerti (Pinnock, Il Giardino Armonico)
J.S. Bach: Goldberg Variations (Gould 1981)
Beethoven: String Quartets 12-16 (Vegh)
Beethoven: Piano Sonata 23 (Richter)
Beethoven: Symphonies 3, 5 (Kleiber), 9 (Szell, Karajan 1963)
Brahms: Piano Concerto 2 (Backhaus, Serkin)
Brahms: Violin Concerto (Oistrakh, Heifetz)
Brahms: Symphonies 1, 4 (Walter, Kleiber)
Chopin: Ballades, Scherzos, Fantasy in F Minor (Horowitz, Rubinstein, Argerich)
Handel: Messiah
Haydn: String Quartets Op. 76
Haydn: Symphonies 94, 101
Mahler: Symphonies 1
Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto (Heifetz, Szeryng)
Mozart: Piano Concerto 20 K.466 (Brendel, Perahia)
Mozart: String Quartet 17 K.458
Mozart: String Quintets K.515, K.516
Mozart: Symphonies 40, 41 (Bohm, Szell, Walter)
Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli
Schubert: String Quintet D.956
Schubert: Piano Quintet D.667
Schubert: Symphony 8 (Bohm, Walter, Kleiber)
Schumann: Kinderszenen (Brendel, Lupu)
Shostakovich: String Quartet 8
Shostakovich: Symphony 5 (Mravinsky)
Sibelius: Violin Concerto (Oistrakh, Chung)
Richard Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel (Karajan)
Stravinsky: Sacre du Printemps
Tchaikovsky: Symphony 6 (Gergiev, Mravinsky)
Wagner: Orchestral Excerpts from the Operas


Part II. More suggestions from each category


Medieval:

Allegri: Miserere
Josquin des Prez: Missa Panga Lingua

Baroque:

Bach: Orchestral Suites
Bach: Die Kunst der Fuge
Bach: French Suites
Bach: Cello Suites
Bach: Sonatas and Partitas for Violin
Bach: Toccata and Fuga in D minor for organ
Bach: Cantatas 78, 82, 140, 147
Bach: Mass in B minor
Vivaldi: Le Quattro Stagioni
Haendel: Watermusic
Haendel: Music for the Royal Fireworks
C.P.E. Bach: Keyboard Sonatas
Pachelbel: Canon and Gigue
Scarlatti: Keyboard sonatas
Cimarosa: Concerto in C major for oboe and strings

Classical:

Mozart: Symphonies 35, 36, 38, 39
Mozart: String Quartets KV 428, 465
Mozart: Piano Concerti 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27
Mozart: Clarinet Quintet
Mozart: Eine kleine Nachtmusik
Mozart: Piano sonatas
Mozart: Violin concerti
Mozart: Requiem
Mozart: Die Zauberflote
Mozart: Don Giovanni
Haydn: Symphonies 103
Haydn: Piano sonatas
Haydn: Trumpet Concerto
Rossini: Ouvertures
Rossini: La Cenerentola
Rossini: Stabat Mater

Romanticism:

Beethoven: Symphonies 6, 7
Beethoven: Pianosonatas
Beethoven: Pianoconcertos 3, 4, 5
Beethoven: Diabelli Variations
Beethoven: Violin Sonatas
Beethoven: Violinconcerto
Beethoven: Triple Concerto
Beethoven: String Quartets
Beethoven: Missa solemnis
Schubert: Symphonies 4, 5, 9
Schubert: Winterreise
Schubert: Forellenquintett
Schubert: Der Tod und das Madchen
Schubert: Piano Sonata D960
Schumann: Piano Concerto
Schumann: Fantasiestucke op. 12
Schumann: Cello Concerto
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique
Bellini: Norma
Mendelssohn: Symphonie 3, 4
Mendelssohn: Ouverture 'The Hebrides'
Chopin: Pianoconcertos
Chopin: Pianosonatas 2, 3
Chopin: Etudes, Waltzes, Nocturnes, Polonaises
Brahms: Symphonies 1-4
Brahms: Pianoconcertos 1
Brahms: Double concerto
Brahms: Piano Quintet
Puccini: Tosca
Puccini: Turandot
Bruch: Violinconcerto
Grieg: Pianoconcerto
Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 4, 5
Tchaikovsky: Pianoconcerto 1
Tchaikovsky: Violinconcerto
Tchaikovsky: Ouverture 1812
Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker
Verdi: Aida
Verdi: Requiem
Sibelius: Finlandia
Sibelius: Symphony 2, 5
Saint-Saens: Le Carnaval des Animaux
Saint-Saens: Symphony 3
Ravel: Bolero
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an exhibition
Dvorak: Symphony 9
Rachmaninoff: Symphony 2
Rachmaninoff: Pianoconcertos 2, 3

Late Romanticism

Korngold: Violinconcerto
Lizst: Pianoconcertos
Lizst: 'Les Preludes'
Wagner: Tristan und Isolde
Bruckner: Symphonies 4, 7, 8, 9
Bruckner: Te Deum
Mahler: Symphonies 2, 4, 5, 6, 8
Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde
R. Strauss: Don Juan
R. Strauss: Also sprach Zarathustra
R. Strauss: Vier Letzte Lieder
Schoenberg: Verklarte Nacht
Debussy: Images
Debussy: La mer
Debussy: Prelude a l'apres-midi d'une faune
Barber: Adagio for strings
Elgar: Cello concerto
Elgar: Enigma Variations

20th century 'modern' / flirting with or completely atonal

Holst: The Planets
Respighi: Roman Trilogy
Stravinsky: The Firebird
Bartok: String Quartets
Bartok: Concerto for orchestra
Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle
Prokofiev: Symphony Classique
Prokofiev: Scythian Suite
Prokofiev: Pianoconcerto 2, 3
Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
Prokofiev: Pianosonatas 6, 7, 8
Prokofiev: Peter and the Wolf
Britten: A Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra
Lutoslawski: Concerto for orchestra
Shostakovich: Symphonies 4, 7, 10
Shostakovich: String Quartets
Shostakovich: Celloconcerto 2
Gershwin: Rhapsody in blue
Leifs: Geysir
Gorecki: Symphony 3
Messiaen: Turangalila-symphony
Kodaly: Cellosonata
Rautavaara: Angel of Light
Ustvolskaya: Compositions I, II, II
Varese: Arcana
Varese: Ameriques

 

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    ...
Re: Suggestions for great performance requested, posted on April 19, 2000 at 21:25:23
Tom B.


 

20TH CENTURY/ MODERN

Shostakovich Symphony #5/ Mravinsky/ Leningrad Philharmonic
Arvo Part: Fratres/ Gil Shaham violin/ Neemi arvi/ Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra
Arvo Part: Te Deum/ Estonian Philharmonic/ Tonu Kaljuste

 

Not so fast (seeling my fish, once again), posted on April 20, 2000 at 07:35:34
Jorge F


 
I always said we should have a FAQ section.
Now that the Lane is divided (against my will), it could be easier.
The existing list is a fine start.
The next step should be, IMO, a recommendations list.
That list shouldn't be confined to the newbies' list; it should contain ANY classical work.
I suggested a small database with classical works by composer and the inmates recommendations of each work.
You would start selecting a work and next choosing Ears', Rob's, Patrick's, Dave's, Keith's, etc, etc, recommendations for that work.
You must understand recommendations are very personal. It's easier to suggest works than performances. For example: I'm currently listening to Brahms 4th, by Knappertsbusch / VPO. It's very good, but I think I still prefer Walter / Columbia ('SBM' remastered), due to better sounding. Others will prefer an old, historic mono, live, performance. It's very personal.
That database shouldn't be that difficult to setup. It would have the great advantage, over existing lists, of being SIGNED, i.e.; the authors would be ONLY making personal suggestions, which isn't the case of the Penguins and alikes.
Most of the effort is already done. It's just a question of collecting the data from the archives. Another way should be setting up the software. Using the registration password, any inmate should be able to access the database and entry his own recommendations.
If you aren't convinced yet, think about Naxos. Some love it and others don't. Who's right?

Peace at AA




Regards,

Jorge

 

Good Idea Jorge (nt), posted on April 20, 2000 at 08:42:23
Tom B.


 
nt

 

Re: Not so fast (seeling my fish, once again), posted on April 20, 2000 at 09:50:01
jlee


 
Hi Jorge,

I like your idea very much, and hope to contribute my own when it is set up, but...

In my opinion, your system will have a different purpose and will serve different target. I'm trying to compile a list that will be helpful for the real beginners, so I try not to put too much information that creates confusion. Just a simple list to start with.

On the other hand, I think it is essential to start with great recordings. Imagine a person with Ears/Rob list at hand, and he goes to a CD shop to pick up Mozart by Solti, Beethoven by Marriner and Mahler by Hogwood - if such horrendous combinations exist. One can peruse something like penguin guide, but I don't think a typical beginner will have such reference at hand.

I don't mean to compile the definitive performance for each piece. My criteria for the selection would be 1) great performance 2) good sonics 3) available from amazon, cdrom etc.

I believe that such a list can fill a current need, and can coexist with more broad and extensive recommendations that your system will create.

Just my 2 cents...


 

How about "Classical Music"?, posted on April 20, 2000 at 10:10:26
BobH


 
This book by Goulding was recommended by someone (Ears?); I bought it and enjoy it immensely. Disagree with some specific recommendations but think it has the right approach: "starter kit", "top 10" and "master collection."
Perhaps we let this book be the general guide and we provide (very opinionated) specific recording recommendations.

 

Good idea, posted on April 20, 2000 at 10:43:47
Jorge F


 
Agree. If someone gets those recordings he would get a wrong idea about the works :-)
Anyway, there are some things that won't work such as availability.
I've been getting a lot of 'Out of Stock', 'Backorder', 'Special Order', and the likes, lately :-(
The sounding affair isn't also easy. There are a few inmates that don't accept it as a valid criterium :-)

Anyway, if a beginner finds too much recommendations, the risc is smaller, supposing those are GOOD recommendations :-)

My suggestion is due to the need to avoid answering the same questions all the time. If everybody reads the FAQs before posting, then the treads will certainly contain something NEW, i.e., will 'develop' the subject and just repeat what as already been said.

As a preamble, generic recommendations, as Naxos, could work. Next, specific recommendations would follow. Another goal is to isolate the 'personal' side of recommendations. Giving, for example, some 'parti-pris' towards certains performers (Gergiev and Zander, FOR EXAMPLE), the reader could make his own considerations.



Peace at AA



Regards,

Jorge

 

Re: Good idea, posted on April 20, 2000 at 13:25:03
jlee


 
Jorge,

Thanks for the well thought-out reply. You're absolutely right on the availability - it depends on region and time, and I haven't thought of that.

My own preference is heavily towards mono or early stereo recordings, but the list is not for me :) Especially since we're part of AUDIO asylum, I think it is safe to assume that the majority of readers have some interest in good sonics. I'm not going to recommend anything from Chesky, but I still think the sound should be acceptable. For me the early stereo sound is quite acceptable sonically...

Do you know if your proposed system is under construction? It sounds like a lot of fun, but I do not want to keep saying "Search the archives!" (actually you'll do that for me :)) while waiting. The search facility requires that you are already familiar with this place, and that you know which words to look for. Not usually the case with beginners.

I really think it's a worthwhile project to link something to the FAQ section, but other than you, no one else seem interested. I might as well just drop it...

 

Re: Good idea, posted on April 20, 2000 at 14:39:55
Jorge F


 
That's what I call the good news and the bad news!

>>>Do you know if your proposed system is under construction? It sounds like a lot of fun, but I do not want to keep saying "Search the archives!" (actually you'll do that for me :)) while waiting. The search facility requires that you are already familiar with this place, and that you know which words to look for. Not usually the case with beginners.<<<

100% agree :-)

>>>I really think it's a worthwhile project to link something to the FAQ section, but other than you, no one else seem interested. I might as well just drop it...<<<

Nooooo!

:-(

Some three or four years ago, I was in charge of a commercial software used by some thirty customer companies. We (the team) spent a lot setting up a help desk and the best of it was a FAQ section.
You'll understand why I post 'Search the archives' so often :-)
That's also mainly why I always think about the 'user' of this place and its software :-)
I'm also a 'user' of a few web sites...
I'd like them to be better and this particular one to be the best!




Regards,

Jorge

 

Re: Suggestions for great performance requested, posted on April 20, 2000 at 23:38:38
Ears


 
I don't really feel up to the task either because there are others here with far greater experience of many different performances than me, but here are some good performances(I won't make any sweeping claims that they're the best but I like them). I can't remember when all these were recorded, but I don't think any are earlier than the late 50's, and the sonics are decent for all of them.


J.S. Bach: Brandenburg Concerti (Pinnock)
J.S. Bach: Goldberg Variations (piano-Gould 1981, Koroliov, Rosen; harpsichord-Pinnock)
Beethoven: String Quartets 12-16
Beethoven: Piano Sonata 23 (Richter, Gilels)
Beethoven: Symphonies 3(Klemperer), 5 (Kleiber, Giulini), 9 (Szell)
Brahms: Piano Concerto 2 (Gilels)
Brahms: Violin Concerto (Heifetz)
Brahms: Symphonies 1(Klemperer), 4 (Walter, Kleiber)
Chopin: Ballades(Zimerman, Moravec, Rubinstein), Scherzos(Moravec, Rubinstein), Fantasy in F Minor(Zimerman, Perahia)
Handel: Messiah(Gardiner)
Haydn: String Quartets Op. 76(Kodaly)
Haydn: Symphonies 94(Szell), 101
Mahler: Symphonies 1
Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto (Heifetz, Salerno-Sonnenberg)
Mozart: Piano Concerto 20 K.466 (Annie Fischer)
Mozart: String Quartet 17 K.458
Mozart: String Quintets K.515(Talich), K.516(Heifetz/Piatigorsky/Primrose/Baker/Majewski)
Mozart: Symphonies 40, 41 (Bohm, Szell, Walter)
Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli(Tallis Scholars)
Schubert: String Quintet D.956(Ensemble Villa Musica)
Schubert: Piano Quintet D.667(Cleveland/O'Conor)
Schubert: Symphony 8 (Karajan-EMI)
Schumann: Kinderszenen (Argerich)
Shostakovich: String Quartet 8
Shostakovich: Symphony 5
Sibelius: Violin Concerto (Heifetz/)
Richard Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel (Karajan)
Stravinsky: Sacre du Printemps
Tchaikovsky: Symphony 6
Wagner: Orchestral Excerpts from the Operas(Szell)

 

Re: Suggestions for great performance requested, posted on April 21, 2000 at 02:36:21
jlee


 
Pardon me, but I'm very ignorant on modernistic classical music. Who is Arvo Part? Is he someone worth listed for beginners? Would you suggest his inclusion in part I, or part II?

 

Re: How about "Classical Music"?, posted on April 21, 2000 at 02:42:54
jlee


 
The book sounds very nice, and I'm sure it is much more comprehensive than what we'll end up with. Do we have any notable omission for the starter kit?

Maybe the FAQ can include "suggested reading" section.

 

Who IS ARVO PART.............., posted on April 21, 2000 at 08:28:59
Tom B.


 
JLEE,

I would place Arvo Part in section II. He's not in the same league as the great masters, but I consider him the most significant Classical composer of the past 25 years! He incorporates Gregorian chant-like motifs with contemporary orchestration. Not that this means anything....but his "Te Deum" has been one of the biggest sellers in the classical genre in the past 10 years. I have about 5 of his discs. I listed Te Deum because it's the most famous of his works.....I listed the Shaham disc of Fratres because it displays what his music can sound like with a legitimate virtuoso. WARNING: There are about a thousand versions of Fratres out right now....all interesting, but the one mentioned above is the best.....it has Part's 3rd Symphony........which I personally find absolutely beautiful. Music is so subjective.......I'm sure Rob, Brian, and others would "dis" his works, but I REALLY feel they have unquestionable merit. His music will stir your soul.

Regard's, Tom B.

 

Thanks Ears, your effort is appreciated as always <nt>, posted on April 21, 2000 at 11:40:21
jlee


 

 

Re: Who IS ARVO PART.............., posted on April 21, 2000 at 14:19:01
jlee


 
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the information. I searched through the archives and found some more interesting discussions. Time to go search CDnow, I guess.

 

Re: Suggestions for great performance requested, posted on April 21, 2000 at 19:02:19
edta


 
Seems like a good idea if the folks will cooperate. I downloaded Part I and will add my picks when I can. I appreciate your attempt to help newbies. I remember back to the time when I was starting out and how much something like this could have helped me then.

I disagree about stereo, mono etc., in the case of an exceptional performance. I'm just adding those I love. Maybe I should add mono in case anyone has a problem.

 

Re: Suggestions for great performance requested, posted on April 21, 2000 at 21:02:07
jlee


 
Actually, I am not sure if I agree with myself about that mono/stereo thing either. It was a rather arbitrarily set-up sonic standard.

Just give some consideration for the sound, and it would be fine.

 

My part 1 picks, posted on April 22, 2000 at 21:38:13
edta


 
--------------------------------------------------------------

Part I. The essentials


J.S. Bach: Brandenburg Concerti (Busch Chamber Players on EMI)
J.S. Bach: Goldberg Variations (Gould 1955)
Beethoven: String Quartets 12-16 (Busch Quartet, Yale Quartet)
Piano Sonata 23 (Richter, Perahia)
Beethoven: Symphonies 3(Von Matacic, 5 (Kleiber), 9 (Toscanini)
Brahms: Piano Concerto 2 (Solomon)
Brahms: Violin Concerto (Heifetz)
Brahms: Symphonies 1, 4 (Walter in 1, Reiner in 4)
Chopin: Ballades, Scherzos, Fantasy in F Minor
Handel: Messiah-(Colin Davis on Philips 2fer)
Haydn: String Quartets Op. 76
Haydn: Symphonies 94 (Szell), 101
Mahler: Symphonies 1
Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto (Szigeti w. Beecham)
Mozart: Piano Concerto 20 K.466 (R. Serkin)
Mozart: String Quartet 17 K.458
Mozart: String Quintets K.515, K.516(Grumiaux Ensemble)
Mozart: Symphonies 40, 41 (Szell in 41, Walter in 40)
Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli
Schubert: String Quintet D.956 (Casals et al. on Sony, Hollywood String Quartet)
Schubert: Piano Quintet D.667
Schubert: Symphony 8 (Toscanini)
Schumann: Kinderszenen (Lupu)
Shostakovich: String Quartet 8
Shostakovich: Symphony 5
Sibelius: Violin Concerto
Richard Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel (Kempe, Szell)
Stravinsky: Sacre du Printemps
Tchaikovsky: Symphony 6 (Mitropoulos)
Wagner: Orchestral Excerpts from the Operas (Szell)



 

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