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Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?

107.77.83.107
Posted on September 6, 2016 at 17:50:33
Smelly_Socks
 I have heard cables change in character as they go from brand new to broken in.
Some experiences were annoying, some enlightening.

I personally like to hear a new out of the box cable as is.
The sound may not be perfect, (though sometimes it is pretty nice, and sometimes it is terrible LOL) but it certainly lets me experience the original sound. Plus follow the changes as the cable breaks in.

Nothing wrong with having a box break in a cable for one, but I really like to hear the original sound, and after. The knowledge gained is worth the few days of cringe.. (and the maybe not so great sound)

Anyone else feel the same?
Or is your listening time to limited to bother? Or some other reason you do not like to listen to new cables?

I mention this as I have a new cable on the way... And plan on enjoying the 'new to broken in' experience all over again. I think it helps me to understand cables better.. and enjoy my 'history' with them.

 

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RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 6, 2016 at 18:57:36
bcowen
Audiophile

Posts: 1076
Location: North Carolina
Joined: December 19, 2015
 That's a good question.

For me, it all depends on what the cable sounds like when it's new. Some are quite listenable, if not anywhere close to their full glory. Some are just hard to listen to, and 1) my listening time is too limited to listen through the teething pains, and 2) I have an all tube system, so I'm not fond of burning tubes just to break in a cable. Those go on the cooker immediately.

If it doesn't sound obnoxious initially, I may listen to it as it fleshes out just out of interest. But it'll then get cooked anyway as it will get more fully burned in with a cooker than just playing it in the system. I have no objective evidence to substantiate this, but I have (on several occasions) put interconnects and power cords in the cooker that had many hundreds of (recent) system hours on them, and they sounded noticeably better after cooking for a couple days. Haven't ever done this with speaker cables though, so can't say if they would behave the same...

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 03:03:07
Lesage
Audiophile

Posts: 56
Joined: March 4, 2009
 So there should be some opportunity for an audacious entrepreneur to build a cable Un-cooker ?

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 03:20:14
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
 No entrepreneur needed....simply leave your cabling sitting without signal for several weeks. They will underperform, guaranteed. And it costs you nothing!

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 08:00:57
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Cable Cookers claim a cable will Never break-in simply by listening.

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 09:19:19
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Nearly the same experience here. No hard evidence, but I also believe a "cooker" takes an IC to a new level. Plus it allows you to "recondition" your IC's on a somewhat regular basis. I've always heard a nice improvement after the reconditioning process. An entry level cooker like the Hagerman Frybaby2 costs far less ($229) than most would spend on the latest "rave" IC.....only to never hear its true potential without a cooker being involved.

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 10:16:35
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
 Very well stated, Mick....

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 10:17:21
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
 That is correct, Sir....

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 13:02:16
pc123v
Audiophile

Posts: 225
Joined: February 6, 2014
 Hi Smelly_Socks. I don't have access to a cable cooker and have been burning in my cables by playing music. Have been experimenting with jumpers lately and this is what I have noticed in the past 2 sets of jumpers. First and second day, sounds promising (to me). From the 3rd day on, it gets brighter and stays that way for the next 40 to 50 hours. By then, I would have lost interest and am ready to try something else. Usually give up after 50 hours if it remains bright as it's exactly what I am NOT looking for. I guess I am seeking feedback if this is fairly typical, that is, yo-yo effect. Have you encountered this before? I am thinking that perhaps the "brighter" sound is actually pretty close to how it's supposed to sound after burn in (even if it has only 5 hours or so playtime), that is, it's sonic signature. Maybe I should have more patience for it can "settle" down and get more organic and musical, which are attributes I am after.

Anyone else would like to chime in?

Thanks again.

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 15:36:48
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Thx Alan. Aside from the sonic benefits, eliminating the normal tedious, time consuming break-in procedure alone makes the FryBaby (or similar) easily worth the investment. Saves a little wear and tear on equipment, tubes, etc. as well.

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 16:07:24
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
 In my experience over 16+ years, "bright" means under-Cooked. Any cable (or outlet or connector) exhibiting this suggests that it requires more conditioning time. In the case of system-only "break-in" that could mean days (to get past that particular state).

I will also say categorically that the music signal in any system will never come close to the full(er) conditioning provided by a purpose-built conditioning device.

 

RE: Cable cooking vs experiencing the process? personal choice?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 16:13:07
bcowen
Audiophile

Posts: 1076
Location: North Carolina
Joined: December 19, 2015
 Now if someone would invent a steak un-cooker, I'd be first in line. You know, when it goes just past that perfect medium-rare point because you were all out of beer in the kitchen 'fridge, and by the time you got back from the round trip to the garage 'fridge it cooked just a little too long? I really hate that. Of course, if I had half a brain I'd be sure there was plenty of beer inside before I started cooking... :)

 

I think...., posted on September 7, 2016 at 16:40:48
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
 ....there is already such a device available, Bill.

It's called a timer. :--}

 

RE: I think...., posted on September 7, 2016 at 18:46:15
bcowen
Audiophile

Posts: 1076
Location: North Carolina
Joined: December 19, 2015
 Sounds like a great idea for a new cooker adapter. I'll be happy to beta test it for you. :)

 

Aside from the cable.. Is the actual system parts making the sound? or the wire?, posted on September 7, 2016 at 19:23:30
Smelly_Socks
 Say my system has a particular fault. It this (imaginary case) say a speaker with a tendency to brightness.
Well at first the 'raw' wires sound good, but really they are masking the natural state of your tweeter sound.

Then a the wire becomes what it could be, you get back the too bright sound.
So it is a tough call.

With general issues in a system, it may be very hard to sort out what is causing what. One thing to note is if several wires do the same thing.. More likely the problem is not in a wire. And IMO one way to see if it is wire. Try bare wire. You would need to be exceptionally careful with bare wires. But for just a short jumper, you might be safe. With NO insulation at all, the wire will just be wire within a very short break in. See what happens.

IMO with bare wire on your jumper, and after a day the speakers are still bright, then IMO it is the system. Whether positioning, tilt, the basic speaker wrong for the room, a not so great amp.. Whatever.. it is not the wire fail. I would not hesitate to try bare wire for a three inch jumper. twelve inches? ahhh I would want to be ultra careful!

Also, you might try a resistor on the tweeter Using a 1 watt 1 ohm, or a 2ohm resistor as the jumper. it may do just what you need.

This is ONLY if the jumper is to a tweeter only. If the jumper is to both a midrange and tweeter, the resistor will be TOO SMALL And I would not suggest it at all in the case of a jumper between a woofer, and both midrange plus tweeter. Just too much power flow.
But if it IS only a tweeter. the one watt resistor should be fine. If you do try it. check how hot it gets playing music. If it only gets slightly warm. Good/normal. If it gets hot.. you need a larger wattage one. You can buy up to five watt one ohm or two ohm resistors. Use the smallest one which does not get very warm after a lot of play time..

A cheap resistor WILL hurt the sound slightly, But be less of an issue than too bright a tweeter. There are $25 a pop carbon resistors i They sound damn fine. A link to them.. (PS Dueland are 5 watts or 10 watts. Big watts does not hurt in this application and will work just as well as a one watt The critical number on a resistor would be the OHMS and for Dueland the 1.2 ohm is the one to get).

Added: On other possibility is the highs are not to loud, but too 'annoying'.
(I am a high frequency nut, they have to be perfect for me so I know of what I speak) Sometime if the highs are irritating, they 'seem' to be to loud... Which is just they annoy the hell out of you.. Thus they seem too loud. But in fact they may just be annoying. And if they stpped being harsh and ear killing, then the same level of sound would seem nice and normal. !!
Some things which came 'tame' annoying HF are power conditioners, or better digital components. If you use a only digital front end.. Perhaps it is giving you hash in the HF
The cheapest 'fix' for RF hash in the treble are ferrite plugs on the digital AC cord. And on the RCA exiting your digital player or DAC.
Cheap ones are about $5 each and the can snap on the wires.

 

RE: Aside from the cable.. Is the actual system parts making the sound? or the wire?, posted on September 10, 2016 at 12:14:34
pc123v
Audiophile

Posts: 225
Joined: February 6, 2014
 @Smelly_Socks. Thanks again for your help and time spent on such a detailed explanation. Yes...I suspect it could be my source.

I guess I am wondering if cables do actually burn in and do have peaks and valleys in terms of sonics during the process. I heard it could be anywhere from 20 to 200 hrs. 100 hrs seem to be mentioned the most.

Wondering if anyone has compared 2 sets of identical cables...A/B'd them...one at brand new and the other with a burn in period of 100 hrs. Sometimes I feel it could be a matter of getting used to the sound (burned in state) coupled with poor auditory memory of what it used to be.

 

From my own experience. New is edgy, hash, rough, compared to broken in, posted on September 10, 2016 at 16:49:39
Smelly_Socks
 My worst to best was a pair of seven meter long Kimber Hero XLR.
When brand new, they sounded terrible, and I thought "I am taking this crap BACK!".
Realizing they were kind of long, I played them for a few days, and they got better.
At the start, the sound was harsh, like a transistor radio back in the 60's.. only in flavor, not actually as bad. Before that I had a set of 7 meter Kimber PBJ, which I never paid any attention to, and were new before I was up to $5K a pop electronics. (The $5K a pop was where I started to really hear easy to find differences in wires..)

The next seven meter pair was Cardas Parsec. also XLR. I kept those for over 6 weeks, and they never got any better.
The dealer kept pressing: 'They will break in" BS. After over six weeks of constant play, I was no longer interested in playing games and I returned them. The Parsec problem was a thin sound. very thin, poor midrange and no bass at all.(this never showed in short 1 or 2 meter Parsec)
I bought Kimber bulk wire and made my own.. Which I am using now. This wire is not a bass strong as the Hero, but has been adequate. I am big on clarity and highs.. So I can accept a little loss in the lows.
The Cardas Parsec I still use on all other short cabling As it is miles ahead of the Hero in clarity. And is no issue on bass in one meter lengths.

Generally I think the notion of 'break in' is over rated. Which is wonderful. (And the 7 meter Parsec, the notion of break in was repeatedly touted "just wait".. But I refuse to spend my life 'fixing' something which is NOT adequate from the get go.

The one place I have discovered really big problems with wire is in the seven or six meter lengths. Where any failing really make themselves known.
A one meter Hero is only slightly rough when new. Most folks would never notice. And like when I bought the one meter Parsec, that was great from minute one.
But make them really long...

I use the seven meter from my preamp. which is next to my listening position.. to the amp, off between the speakers.. 23 feet.

IMO without the $5,000 each electronics and a $3,500 power conditioner, plus aftermarket AC cords..
(plus a second $2K conditioner just for digital) I DOUBT I could hear as big a difference as I can now.
When I had $1,000 to $2,000 stuff.. I could only hear 'maybe' something. But no certainty.. like now.

Added: the fun and interesting thing is.. I still play music through a used for $250 DAC. (that to a $4,500 tube VAC Standard I use just as a tube buffer LOL) with all my other $5K a pop stuff. It sounds great. Having compared it to $2,500 stuff. And mine is just as good. My Sony SCD777ES is a tiny bit better. but not enough to matter. Just say'n.

 

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