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several DC umbilicals

81.202.47.219
Posted on June 21, 2015 at 06:48:57
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 hi there,

i'm experimenting with different materials and geometries for a DC cable feeding
my M2tech DSD DAC from a Teradak 15V, 1.5A PSU; these are my results so far:

1. stock cable, stock connectors (Aviation Plug GX12-2P, standard crappy jack):
about 18-20ga, stranded copper, PVC, twisted: not so terribly bad

2. 12ga, stranded, silver plated copper, PVC, twisted, stock connectors: much better,
great dynamics, not much clarity, rather harsh

3. 16ga, stranded, silver plated quality copper (Chord Rumour 2), twisted, stock
connector on the PSU side, Oyaide jack on the DAC side: better all around, more
clarity, though not satisfactory, better bass, though not very articulated, a little
harsh with some recordings after 150 hours

4. 18ga (2 x 21ga), solid enameled 6N OCC copper, four-braided, same connectors
as above; difficult to braid, difficult to solder, BUT big jump in sound quality over
former one; more natural, no harshness at all since the first minute! no loss of dynamics;
more clarity and detail, but very smooth; great bass; the best so far...

next steps: i'll try 2 more models: 18ga solid in teflon, twisted, and Oyaide18ga IC wire,
stranded 102 copper, twisted, screened

i'll post final results with pics of each model

best, paco

 

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Nice post!, posted on June 21, 2015 at 11:39:54
Winston Smith
Audiophile

Posts: 1014
Location: PNW (summers) and Southern AZ (winters)
Joined: December 2, 2006
 Good observations to share, paco. Thanks.

I know I will look forward to your next update.

No surprises on what you have found so far, btw, at least in IMHO. Bi-metallic wires and contacts are notorious for possibly presenting a wee bit of a harsh character, at least silver over copper. Pure copper seems to be the best over-all sound for DC umbilicals, at least for me.

I will be very curious as to how the solid core copper/teflon sounds. Give the teflon a long while to break in and set. Same for the Oyaide.

Cool! :-)

Right on, paco!

BTW, I am also currently doing an A-B for a DC umbilical, so your post is very timely for me, personally. I have gone with 4mm2 diameter stranded OCC copper with a nice 100% transparent teflon covering, all nice and very cheap from AliExpress (where else?) Standard Neutrik silver plated NC4FXB/NC4MXB terminations. It is going up against a very cool-looking and nice sounding $300 ModWright "Truth" 4-pin umbilical custom-built for ModWright by George Cardas. This finely made Cardas umbilical (that I believe Dan Wright still offers for sale) has served me well for many years now, but I decided to see if some simple twisted teflon-coated OCC copper stranded wire could beat it. They both employ the silver-plated Neutrik 4-pin terminations, so the comparison really is about the wires/geometry between the terminations.

My el-cheapo AliExpress creation has been breaking in for 5 days now, so time to go down and give it a listen (teflon as an insulator always sounds like absolute crap to my ears for the first 100 hours at least, in my humble experience, many times much, much longer, like 400+ hours. Yikes!) Hopefully, it is sounding nice. Guess I'll find out shortly......

Cheers,

WS



 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 21, 2015 at 14:21:18
DrN
Audiophile

Posts: 366
Joined: January 31, 2014
 Paco you're a brave man with some time. LOL!
As I mentioned I have the TaraDac 12v LPS too into a Chord QuteHD and it sounds very good with the stock cable. This takes a lot of time and messing around. Been through it before on another Power supply and the original cable sounded better. Never thought of changing this one.
So thank you. I'll be watching for the next installment.

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 22, 2015 at 06:05:11
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004

Hi and thanks for the interesting information
do you have a link to the DC plug and panel socket you are using ?
Those are important i think.
You could try a star-quad mic cable for the cord.
With two wires for + and two for ground.
Resistance should be very very low.
They are designed to carry signal of extremely low voltage.
Canare is a very good one but any from a good brand would do i guess.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 22, 2015 at 12:20:01
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15518
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 I will look forward to your next update- Paco.

 

RE: Nice post!, posted on June 22, 2015 at 13:09:16
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 thanks! i agree about silver plated copper; as a matter of fact i never liked silver for audio, no matter where; for me it tends always to sound a little harsh or at least dry

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 22, 2015 at 13:13:07
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 brave not sure, but some time you bet! i'm just retired, so i've got lots of time to devote to my main hobby: audio!

if you found your former PSU stock umbilical to sound better than any other made by yourself, then either you got a really audiophile DC cable, or you are not so good a DIYer, or you need a doctor to check your ears... :))

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 22, 2015 at 13:16:29
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000






hi thanks! star quad cables generally are very heavy for my application, since i'm using so tiny connectors, not easy to solder; you can see them above...

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 22, 2015 at 13:17:48
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 thanks! now i need some more time to get the new materials, them finish my comparison and decide about the winner!

 

i'm about to AB on the modwright too, posted on June 22, 2015 at 18:25:04
rhyno
Reviewer

Posts: 997
Joined: January 10, 2001
 the truth cord from modwright vs my own 18ga silver plated copper in teflon, been breaking in for a month. lets compare notes after the weekend!

ryan

 

Sounds cool, rhyno......, posted on June 22, 2015 at 19:00:25
Winston Smith
Audiophile

Posts: 1014
Location: PNW (summers) and Southern AZ (winters)
Joined: December 2, 2006
 I am supposed to go down and listen tonight, but I figure the longer the break-in time allowed for teflon insulation, the better. I've been putting it off now for a few days, so I guess it's about time to hear what's brewin'.......

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 23, 2015 at 04:55:59
DrN
Audiophile

Posts: 366
Joined: January 31, 2014
 Those Oyaide DC 1.2g, 2.5g connectors are nice cannot find in the US.

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 23, 2015 at 08:03:23
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 try here:

http://uptoneaudio.com/

in Europe this connectors are widely available; this is the cheapest place:

http://eden-audio.com/index.php?id_category=26&controller=category&id_lang=1

 

RE: Nice post!, posted on June 23, 2015 at 10:40:13
drkingweeb@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 55
Location: new hampshire
Joined: May 25, 2004
 where do you get the 21ga. 6n occ wire?
thanks,
drmike

 

RE: Nice post!, posted on June 23, 2015 at 12:06:57
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 got it from Michael Percy many years ago; i still had some, and decided to give it a try...

 

RE: I've made a few , posted on June 24, 2015 at 05:52:17
Cpk
Audiophile

Posts: 1518
Location: PA
Joined: May 13, 2005
 Compared stock musical fidelity umbilicals to 12awg silver plated copper- stranded/PTFE, to UPOCC solid core 18awg x 4 FEP (also 12awg), and the latter was noticeably better, more dynamic.

 

RE: Nice post!, posted on June 24, 2015 at 08:44:57
CBernardino
Audiophile

Posts: 113
Location: Nation's Capital
Joined: June 7, 2010
 Several weeks ago I substituted a custom Graphene umbilical made for me by Bob Grost at Cerious Technologies, for my Modwright "Truth" umbilical. It is still breaking in, but right out of the box it is more "liquid" than the Modwright cable. This prototype a t least was not expensive. Don't know what he would charge for a production run.

 

SPC, PTFE Teflon Wire Burn-in, posted on June 24, 2015 at 12:58:52
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 The late Bob Crump, the cable guru behind the Asylum Power Cord was a strong advocate of silver plated copper with PTFE Teflon insulation conductors for DC umbilical projects, and I concur. He also indicated a whopping 1000+ hours of burn-in for this type of wire when implemented for a DC power supply application. My findings after a number of DIY DC umbilical projects also shows how vital burn-in is in order to fully realize the performance potential, so a cable cooker would be highly beneficial for this type of application.

Furthermore, I find it's also very important to to construct a DIY cable jacket by wrapping a DIY DC umbilical with PTFE Teflon tape in order to keep a precision twist ratio in place over time, tightly couple (no gaps) the current carrying conductors along the entire length of the cable, and dampen electromechanical resonances.

See AA archives link below:

 

RE: SPC, PTFE Teflon Wire Burn-in, posted on June 24, 2015 at 13:48:40
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 instead of throwing doubts on my findings, in so dogmatic a way,
why don't you try my four-braiding, solid OCC, 6N copper design and post your results?
that would be much more in the spirit of Bob Crump, and i know what i mean!

 

RE: SPC, PTFE Teflon Wire Burn-in, posted on June 24, 2015 at 15:10:48
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 I'm not being harsh nor dogmatic towards anything or anyone.

In fact, I did not criticize your ongoing DIY projects in any manner, nor is there any reason why I should do such.

Adding further information to a thread is a perfectly on-topic post in Cable Asylum.

Duster

 

RE: SPC, PTFE Teflon Wire Burn-in, posted on June 24, 2015 at 21:56:17
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 so you're one of those guys who needs to have the last word;
no problem! i leave it to you wih pleasure... enjoy!

 

RE: I've made a few , posted on June 24, 2015 at 22:06:08
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 my experience is the same; for this sort of application, which i consider to be similar to IC cables,
i always prefer solid than stranded, and copper than silver, or silver plated copper

 

RE: I ran the SPC for 3 years, posted on June 25, 2015 at 06:09:01
Cpk
Audiophile

Posts: 1518
Location: PA
Joined: May 13, 2005
 Well over a 1000hrs of time. Sorry Duster and you know I revere Crump and his progressing of cable performance but in my application, used with a musical fidelity KW750, the starquad of 18awg UPOCC solid core superseded it.

 

RE: I ran the SPC for 3 years, posted on June 25, 2015 at 10:17:11
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Chris,

I don't know why it seems I'm posting doubt about any other DIY DC umbilical design other than SPC/PTFE Teflon wire. How is it by pointing out the need of extensive burn-in time, and building an effective DIY cable jacket mean I'm disrespecting another wire option? I've not said a word against the use of solid core OCC copper for any DC umbilical project. The OP went too far to insult my character over nothing I actually said regarding the topic.

Duster

 

RE: I don't think you are , posted on June 25, 2015 at 10:30:25
Cpk
Audiophile

Posts: 1518
Location: PA
Joined: May 13, 2005
 but on this, I found Bob's recommendation not the best for My system, and I just wanted it to understood that I gave them a very long time to come around and though I didn't state it they were also taped (PTFE). Interestingly enough I didn't tape what is in there now but that just came down to forgetting to.

As you know there is no universal wrench for audio

 

RE: I don't think you are , posted on June 25, 2015 at 12:33:26
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 I understood your post, and have no problem with what you said. I have nothing against other wire options for a DIY DC umbilical project, and I do not insist that SPC/PTFE Teflon wire is better vs. solid core OCC copper wire (with FEP Teflon insulation I assume) for any DIY DC umbilical project. I've always encouraged folks to experiment and listen for themselves in order to find what they like the best for their own wants/needs. The takeaway should be that a DC umbilical can require an intensive level of burn-in, no matter what type of wire is implemented, and building a DIY cable jacket is a notable thing, no matter what wire is used.

Cheers

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 27, 2015 at 03:13:11
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004

Hi and thanks and sorry for the late reply
Very nice connectors indeed.
Yes i think good connectors are very important.
You are also right about star quad ... silly advice.
It is indeed too big and heavy.
A more "normal" mic cable then maybe ?
They have also a shield that could be conected to ground on one side
They have also very little resistance that is good.
I have use this two wires plus screen cable but for a headphone cord extension with very good results.
Canare is high quality products indeed.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 27, 2015 at 12:28:57
paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000
 yep, that's my idea now: experimenting with 18ga high quality IC wires;
i'll post my results soon; best, paco

 

RE: several DC umbilicals, posted on June 28, 2015 at 06:06:34
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
 Thanks Paco and good luck with your project !
Kind regards,
bg

 

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