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Compare Kimber 8TC to Audioquest Rocket 33 speaker cables

139.55.255.67
Posted on May 21, 2015 at 10:40:24
George S. Roland
Audiophile

Posts: 1470
Location: N W Pennsylvania
Joined: March 20, 2004
 I am presently using Kimber 8TC speaker cables (Blue/black wire) with my B&W 801 Matrix Series II speakers.

It was recommended to me to try AudioQuest Rocket 33s.

In both instances I am using biwire cables with bananas on all ends.

Any opinions on what I might expect in terms of sonic differences between these speaker cables--looking for something that isn't going to exacerbate the 801s sometimes analytical big end?

Thanks,

George

 

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If You Are Going To Maximize The 8TC..., posted on May 21, 2015 at 14:46:36
Luminator
Audiophile

Posts: 7339
Location: Bay Area
Joined: December 11, 2000
 As with all cables, you need a proper burn-in device. I personally use an audiodharma Cable Cooker, but you can research other devices.

For those who actually do the grunt work, and use such devices, many discover that their existing cables are actually significantly better than previously thought.

Yes, my colleagues and I have used the Cable Cooker on Kimber's 4TC, 8TC, and 4AG. Since you have the 8TC, you should know that the Cooker treatment goes a long way, toward reducing grain, and allowing the cable to reproduce a larger soundscape.

If you have excess lengths of that 8TC, please read Unclestu's posts regarding the "puffing up" of the braided cable. When I compared a "puffed up" pair to a regular off-the-spool pair, the latter will sound more congested, as if you have a cold, or as if a cat is trying to cough up a hairball.

You should also know that the speaker cable comes near the end of the audio chain. If you use a more accurate speaker cable, that will allow you to hear more of what's really going on upstream.

As I have no experience with the AudioQuest Rocket 33, I am not at liberty to comment.

If you are going to stick with Kimber, I highly recommend the Bi-Focal XL, which, Cooked or not, does not sound as plodding and colored as Kimber's own KS-3033 plus jumper(s).

The Audiophiles' DJ,
-Lummy The Loch Monster

 

RE: Compare Kimber 8TC to Audioquest Rocket 33 speaker cables, posted on May 21, 2015 at 15:49:54
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I totally agree with "ILLUMINATOR", however, I strongly suggest you look at/take a listen to the Wireworld offerings. The Cable Co will send some to you for your decision making process.

 

RE: Compare Kimber 8TC to Audioquest Rocket 33 speaker cables, posted on May 22, 2015 at 07:24:37
ABliss
Audiophile

Posts: 1482
Joined: March 16, 2001
Contributor
  Since: August 3, 2002
 Get Rocket 88, much better biwired than those two.

AB.

 

You can duplicate the bifocal, posted on May 22, 2015 at 17:26:03
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 by sliding 4TC into the center of puffed up 8TC. Works fabulously well.

 

Yes agree puffing up 8TC works. I insert cotton rope inside..., posted on May 23, 2015 at 16:39:25
Smelly_Socks
 My 8TC doubled up is puffed. I puffed it then inserted a thick cotton rope inside. then pulled the puffed up 8TC down on the rope. (pulling and slightly twisting brings the wire back into line.. Even back down to the original configuration. Just pulling does not. Adding in the twisting part gets it done. PS 8TC insulation WILL cut your hands, peeling off skin, if you rub your skin across it hard enough..)
The combo keeps the 8TC nice and even, AND mainly keeps it in the open weave when I step on it. LOL

 

Why doesn't Kimber just make decent cable to begin with?, posted on May 23, 2015 at 19:30:49
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 Why should one pay serious money for cable and then need to insert a piece of rope into it? What a pain. Why not buy decent cable?

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

Central core provides resonance control and acts as a former... , posted on May 23, 2015 at 19:37:03
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 ...for better optimized signal delivery and noise cancellation when implemented for a litz or quasi-litz braided/woven speaker cable geometry.

 

AQ makes decent wire, posted on May 23, 2015 at 19:40:18
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 Their entry level stuff isn't much more than okay, but their higher grade wire is good value because it provides accurate, balanced sound. I think it makes a good match with B&W tweeters. You don't need to insert rope into it to get it to sound good.

Used AQ is an even better value. Other than cute new names and fancier jackets, it really hasn't changed that much. Get whichever model features OFC copper and polypro insulation.

Peace,
Tom E

berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!, posted on May 23, 2015 at 20:06:20
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 considering the braided basic design has been around for 25 years.

I find your comments to based on ignorance of the market.




#1. you can buy the cables with the insert inside already. Check out the price differential. The Kimber Monocle, Bifocal and Trifocal models have the insert as does the Select.

#2 since all shippers also charge by dimensional weight. How much larger is the shipping box going to be and how much more will the consumer have to pay. Significantly more in my experience.

#3 an hour or so of work and you can almost duplicate the more expensive models. What a savings, but, hey, spend your money where you want to.

 

KMA!!!!, posted on May 23, 2015 at 20:50:10
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 I sure wouldn't spend it on Kimber mono or bi or tri or select or whatever they call it this time.

I may be ignorant of the market because I quit paying much attention to manufacturer's advertising and dealer's nonsense a few years ago. You're the one who claims not much has changed in 25 years, yet a "new" model with a cute new name and a flashy new jacket is released every few years.

I spend my money and time on wire and insulation, not paying for fancy packaging and studying marketing ploys. I use a braided solid core design for mids and tweets. Almost anybody can make speaker cable at a fraction of the cost of commercial stuff. No magic dust required.

But if putting rope into Kimber cable improves it, then certainly do it. It is nice to get improvement for little cost. But if it's so little cost and makes such a difference, why doesn't Kimber make it just that way? Your reasons are not at all convincing, my market ignorance notwithstanding.

Peace,
Tom E


berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

Ignorance rules, posted on May 24, 2015 at 12:47:15
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 for you, apparently.

A little research will show that the Kimber bifocal series has been around for at least decade as well as its Select series. Despite your claims of frequent cosmetic changes, it is not borne out in reality, at least not with Kimber designs.

They have made incremental performance changes but for the most part it has not added additional cost to the models. The cost increases are more a matter of the world market demand for precious metals, mostly silver and gold, but also copper.

I was out of audio almost completely for 6 years, so based on what I know and the rather appalling conclusions you have reached ( probably based on another company's offerings), I will simply assume you have been in a shell for well over a decade.



 

RE: Central core provides resonance control, posted on May 24, 2015 at 13:06:37
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 Works for solid core braided designs also.

Curiously, I sold some braided Kimber to an Auto enthusiast, who puffed up the cable but then flattened it to fit under the carpets. The flattened design still offered an improvement overall.

 

PS, posted on May 24, 2015 at 13:09:32
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 puffing up a 4TC and then sliding it over older large gauge wire ( I used AQ midnight and cobalt) gave the best of both cables when the ends are combined.

The AQ was very warm and Kimber a bit brighter so the two combined have a much more even presentation.

Again YMMV and FWIW

 

Ignoring your calling me ignorant, posted on May 24, 2015 at 13:38:59
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 I don't know what you or anyone else here gains by your insulting me, but you seem to enjoy it. Is that how you try to establish superiority? I'll try to simply ignore it.

Perhaps Kimber is one of the more reputable companies with a logical and stable design philosophy, but I don't care for the sound of their bulk wire or their manufactured IC's. Perhaps the speaker cable is better, but why would I expect that? Besides, their products are still overpriced for what they are.

I do not research commercial products or pay much attention to Kimber or any other cable manufacturer's proclamations of supremacy due to this or that special feature. Perhaps that is being "in a shell," but my stereo sounds excellent and I've saved a lot of money. Until someone invents a conductor better than OCC copper or an insulation substantially better and more practical than teflon or air, new "developments" are mostly BS.


berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

Isn't that better than KMA ?, posted on May 24, 2015 at 13:53:16
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 You recommend AQ cables in the above thread.

What a hypocrite. I have sold AQ cable also and they change designs exactly as you attribute to Kimber. You go on a tirade, erroneously, about how they change designs frequently with only a change in name and advertising. When I pointed out their designs have remained relatively stable, for up to 25 years in some cases, you ignore the facts.

I find your attitude both puzzling and totally ignorant of the actual facts. I personally like both Ray Kimber and Joe Harley (Kimber and AQ). However, I am not ignorant of the facts of the market and the cost factors which influence prices. Such factors do not only affect audio components but everyday products from food to cars and such.

Remember, Ignorance can be cured by knowledge and research. On the other hand, stupidity can not. I do not recall calling you stupid, hoping that some illumination would cure your falsely concluded statement.

You can select the grave you dig.


 

RE: Compare Kimber 8TC to Audioquest Rocket 33 speaker cables, posted on May 24, 2015 at 15:07:01
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 George-

AQ is the better match for B&W loudspeakers. Especially, the DBS models.

 

I know arguing anything with you is pointless, posted on May 24, 2015 at 15:43:19
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 You see every thread as a debate that you must win, and you must always have the last word. Your "argument" here is a bit off target. Calling me names again? Cut it out. Did you actually read my post about AQ? I specifically mentioned their habit of superficially changing model names and cosmetics for no good reason. Where did I accuse Kimber specifically of that practice? What tirade? What facts did I ignore? I admitted that Kimber has a logical and stable design philosophy.

Your name-dropping does not impress me at all. I'm sure they're very nice and knowledgeable people, but knowing them confers no legitimacy to their products' value. I don't care if you like Ray or Joe or Moe or Larry or Curly if they make the best cables in the world but they cost more than what they're worth.

Thank goodness there is a cure for my ignorance. Does it involve reading ad copy? Meeting Ray Kimber? Reading your posts? Please, educate me, enlighten me, illuminate the darkness of my false conclusions. I know nothing about marketing or costs or profit margins.

This is my last post in response to your insults. I know you cannot allow anyone else to speak last, so go ahead, write whatever you wish. You'll win another argument.


berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

RE: Compare Kimber 8TC to Audioquest Rocket 33 speaker cables, posted on May 24, 2015 at 15:53:35
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 DBS was one of their technical advances that justified new model names. I admire the innovation, but I am not convinced it's worth the extra expense. However, a lot of reviewers and users like them. I think Anaconda (pre-DBS model) was one of the better IC's I've ever heard on B&W's.

My B&W 802's had upgraded crossovers, which made a bigger difference than any cable change. I believe the 801's use the same tweeter and the same quality, if different value, caps. OP might consider that mod before chasing cables.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

RE: Compare Kimber 8TC to Audioquest Rocket 33 speaker cables, posted on May 25, 2015 at 08:43:21
George S. Roland
Audiophile

Posts: 1470
Location: N W Pennsylvania
Joined: March 20, 2004
 Tom,

Thanks for your input. I am curious for more information on your crossover upgrade. Approximately how long ago was this done?

About how much did it cost?

What changes did you notice in the sound of the speakers afterwards? I assume you are happy with those changes?

Many thanks,

George

 

way off topic, posted on May 25, 2015 at 09:28:28
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 North Creek Music makes replacement xovers for Matrix series 801, 802 models. They are still available. They are exact replacements for all original component values but much higher quality parts, built into large enclosures separate from the speakers. They present an immense improvement in almost every aspect of speaker performance, but do not alter the frequency response. They are not cheap.

The easiest part of that to duplicate without a lot of trouble would be replacing the tweeter caps, which could significantly improve the tonality of the somewhat shrill B&W tweeter. Midrange caps could also be improved, which would tend to soften the hard edge of the kevlar drivers. I think NCM now offers a smaller, cheaper xover mod package that will do just that.

You should contact B&W for schematics of the crossover. They sent me an e-mail containing a PDF of the replacement parts manual including schematics, parts lists with all values, and exploded views of the complete speaker construction.

Anyone with modest knowledge of electronics could do the mods for you. Cost would depend on quality of caps you select to replace the B&W stock parts, which were relatively, almost shockingly, low quality. The North Creek replacement caps are not the best available, so you could get even higher quality parts on your own or use their package, which is still an improvement over stock.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

now that's a clever idea, posted on May 25, 2015 at 09:40:21
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 I like that a lot. Makes more sense than a piece of rope. Some negative aspects of various audio components can be easily negated by combining different products or types of component.

There is not much worse than concentrating exclusively on any single manufacturer's products, especially cables. I laugh at reviews that insist there are additional improvements made by adding more of a single manufacturer's cables to their review system.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

Follow up to compare Kimber 8TC to Audioquest Rocket 33 speaker cables, posted on May 29, 2015 at 09:44:46
George S. Roland
Audiophile

Posts: 1470
Location: N W Pennsylvania
Joined: March 20, 2004
 First of all, thanks to all respondents for your valuable input.

Since I didn't think the cost prohibitive and with the ability to return them, I decided to go ahead and try a 10-foot pair of AudioQuest Rocket 33 bi-wire cables with bananas in my system.

While I am still evaluating them, I agree with those who indicated they'd be a better match for my system than the Kimber Kable 8TCs I was using. They are a bit smoother in the high frequencies and, I think, provide a bit more detail and depth.

I have looked into the North Creek crossovers. Since they cost more than my speakers, I am not certain they'd be worth the expense involved. Perhaps a used pair will show up.

 

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