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Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?

98.216.32.239
Posted on December 15, 2014 at 14:06:20
sk
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 658
Joined: April 22, 2000
 I've sold LOTS of new Purist Audio Cables over the years and now for many months have tried selling some of their best cables at 60 to as much as 70% off retail prices and no one is buying? These Proteus Provectus cables were some of the best in the industry and I loved what they did. (OK have found something I like better) But for someone these are great deals. I see on Audiogon lots of used PAD cables as well that don't sell.......why?

(Dealer disclaimer)

 

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RE: Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?, posted on December 15, 2014 at 14:26:44
robss
Audiophile

Posts: 146
Location: PNW
Joined: April 10, 2008
 I suspect the market is fairly saturated. There are lots of great designs that get too little press to start with. A favorable TAS review brings a name to the forefront, however, even then, there are too many players in the field, PAC just one of them. What you have found, perhaps, is one of the reasons why I do not like to sell my now unused cables anymore. Even the best name and value take a beating in return.

Then too, something seems to have happened to A'gon in the last year(s). I have grown to detest selling there, and do not trust the items/vendors/sellers as I once did.

 

RE: Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?, posted on December 15, 2014 at 15:23:21
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 sk-

first and foremost, I am a "cable" guy. I do run across people (including audiophiles) who feel a wire is just a wire...

 

RE: Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?, posted on December 16, 2014 at 05:39:16
plugmein
Audiophile

Posts: 304
Location: mother-earth
Joined: March 4, 2007
 It's a known fact that all Purist dealers give hefty discounts, even his big dealer in Texas (no names but you know you do, even your ads say prices are just retail call for discount price.....or something to that effect). So maybe this is why the used PAD market is what it is, because of these dealers willing to make a small profit rather than the big profit margins other dealers will only accept.
You make your bed and lye in it!

 

RE: Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?, posted on December 16, 2014 at 07:01:04
Mikey8811
Audiophile

Posts: 188
Joined: June 4, 2011
 What do you like better and are upgrading to?

 

RE: Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?, posted on December 16, 2014 at 09:03:12
TRUFI
Audiophile

Posts: 622
Location: So. California
Joined: March 16, 2002
 I agree about AGon. It was a great place to sell until it was sold to "Corporates."

 

RE: Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?, posted on December 16, 2014 at 10:13:19
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 sk-

are you a PAD dealer/retailer?

 

RE: Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?, posted on December 16, 2014 at 10:13:50
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 I know, I truly miss the old 'gon....

 

Yes (nt), posted on December 16, 2014 at 14:16:00
sk
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 658
Joined: April 22, 2000
 .

 

Audiomica Labs, posted on December 16, 2014 at 14:17:22
sk
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 658
Joined: April 22, 2000
 hand-made in Poland, not well known here in the States yet but they are very special cables.

(Dealer disclaimer)

 

RE: Audiomica Labs, posted on December 16, 2014 at 14:22:06
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Very nice- I read about the many, many cables/cords coming from the EU, UK and other places outside of the USA and Asia markets. Very impressive offerings indeed.

 

I've noticed that too., posted on December 22, 2014 at 06:11:14
Justlisten2
Audiophile

Posts: 1266
Location: SE PA
Joined: March 8, 2001
 Though when looking around, it seems like many other cable companies are in the same dire straits when it comes to selling used. I think the problem is that too many of these companies sell new products at significant discounts, like 50% of list. So when buying used, I would expect to pay around 25-30% of list. People still want discounts for buying used. Too many sellers think that they can buy a new cable for 505 of list and turn around and sell it for 50% of list, but buyers are starting to figure out this scam. That's myu $0.02 anyway.

 

RE: I've noticed that too., posted on December 22, 2014 at 18:03:34
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 I had not noticed this trend.

 

RE: I've noticed that too., posted on December 23, 2014 at 02:32:18
Justlisten2
Audiophile

Posts: 1266
Location: SE PA
Joined: March 8, 2001
 Well I've noticed that the PAD Praesto series has had trouble moving at 60-70% off list prices. I also just picked up some High Fidelity cables at over 70% off list, and I just saw some Stealth Audio cables sell for over 80% off list. It seems to me that 60-70% off list just isn't enough to move used cables anymore. Perhaps it is the season, or perhaps it is because everyone is starting to catch on to the fact that folks only pay 50% for cables brand new. I can't say for sure, but they seem to be demanding larger discounts on used cables these days.

 

RE: I've noticed that too., posted on December 23, 2014 at 05:34:28
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Very interesting discounts. Seems like a great time to purchase cables.

 

I thought (almost) ALL used cables were a tough sell... ., posted on December 24, 2014 at 08:37:10
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7806
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 I think that most audiophiles realize that cables (and headphones and phono cartridges) have larger dealer profit margins than electronics and loudspeakers.

Furthermore, the top, highest-grossing dealers often get substantial quantity discounts, which is legal under the Robinson-Patman act as long as the discounts are available across the board. So that becomes a case of the rich get richer. I have heard of prime dealers getting as much as 70 points off, which would mean that as part of a system sale, that dealer could throw in the cables at half of list price, yet still make a decent margin.

If the list price of a pair of interconnects is $1500 and the "street price" is $1000, then it likely will be tough trying to get more than $500 for them used.

Look at the musical instrument business--you see an electric guitar in a music-store window, and the sign on it says, "LIST price $999, our EVERYDAY price $699, today's SPECIAL SALE price $499"... Well, isn't that (at best) just a $399 guitar looking for a sucker to overpay for it?

The current business model of high-end audio sales is in my humble opinion unsustainable. I think that there is going to be a major shaking out, or rather, people will wake up and realize how much shaking out there already has been.

Speaking entirely for myself.

jm

 

RE: I thought (almost) ALL used cables were a tough sell... ., posted on December 24, 2014 at 11:10:32
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Nice point of view -JM.

 

I am genuinely sorry to find myself so doomy and gloomy, posted on December 24, 2014 at 13:47:32
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7806
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 But if everybody pretends that everything is fine (like they do in bad marriages), we can't take advantage of the opportunities that I think are out there to keep "fine audio" culturally relevant, and not just a "playtoy of the rich."

I am heartened by the value propositions some companies such as Grace Design are able to deliver.

But the days of people who make their money moving around money or real estate supporting audio salons by reflexively buying whatever HP at TAS declares to be the flavor of the month are gone--at least in the US. But I understand that binge-buying and compulsive one-up-man-ship, always to "have the best," are alive and well on Mainland China.

I helped a friend of a musician friend to get some stereo upgrades, and the first thing out of her mouth, rather assertively, was "Don't expect me to pay foolish amounts of money for cables." So, our reputation goes before us.

Back in the day, Rolls Royce would build a car's frame and running gear (engine and transmission). Then in most cases, the bare chassis would be sent to a coachbuilder for the design and build of the body, and then to coachtrimmers to do the interior. The multiple blows of the stock market Crash and the Great Depression, WWII, and post-WWII austerity put nearly all the coachbuilders out of business. A few, such as Mulliner and Park Ward, were absorbed by carmakers as their custom divisions.

My point in all that being, not every business model gets to last forever.

I have said this a million times; when I was in college (1972-76), there were five robust stereo stores near campus. Now there are none. But there are tattoo and eyebrow threading parlors, some in the same retail spaces!!!

Society and technology both evolve, and the high-end audio industry has not done a great job of trimming its sails into the prevailing winds.

ATB,

John

 

Wise words. Thanks. (nt), posted on December 24, 2014 at 14:13:13
axolotl
Audiophile

Posts: 3955
Location: So. California
Joined: September 10, 2002
 nt.

axolotl

 

RE: I am genuinely sorry to find myself so doomy and gloomy, posted on December 24, 2014 at 14:54:32
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 More excellent points- JM.
You bet china is buying up our USA made gear, in particular, the upper crust cables and power cords at an alarming rate!

 

RE: Why are PAD cables used a tough sell?, posted on December 27, 2014 at 21:05:35
Nglazer
Audiophile

Posts: 365
Location: New york
Joined: June 22, 2003
 Because PAD cables are way overpriced to begin with. It is basic economics. There is no value proposition when they are sold used. That's the reality.

Neal

 

About 90% of all cables are overpriced (IMO), posted on December 28, 2014 at 04:24:34
plugmein
Audiophile

Posts: 304
Location: mother-earth
Joined: March 4, 2007
 maybe even some that are sold direct as well but even then pricing can be high.

 

RE: About 90% of all cables are overpriced (IMO), posted on December 30, 2014 at 14:25:12
PingPing
Audiophile

Posts: 196
Joined: May 22, 2014
 Probably a few reasons...
- Huge dealer markup and huge discounting
- New models released each year which are always supposed to be hugely better
- Maybe/perhaps not as good as reviewed/suggested

 

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