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Skin Effect

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Posted on December 1, 2014 at 09:08:19
lrizzo
 Hi guys! I was curious about "skin effect" so I made a post about it in the AudioShark forums. I got some good replies, but was still interested in what others thought (since there seems to be a divide), so I thought I'd post it here too.

First of all, I am fairly new to the audiophile scene, and am a bit hazy on some of the finer details.

I'm about 300 pages in to Robert Harley's “Complete Guide to High-End Audio;” right at the cables section. One concept he was discussing was “skin effect” (where frequency signal flows more along the conductor's surface rather than through the center). Up until now I had heard that “skin effect” was inaudible and should be ignored, however Harley states that “most designers agree that skin effect, and interaction between strands, are the greatest sources of sonic degradation in cables” (291) and “the musical consequences of skin effect include loss of detail, reduced top-octave air, and truncated soundstage depth.” (292)

So my question is: Should skin effect be taken in to consideration when looking to purchase cables? I appreciate the clarification.

 

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RE: Skin Effect, posted on December 1, 2014 at 10:05:25
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Welcome! Irizzo-

great question- when researching cables/cords, synergy is the only factor that matters. Certain brand(s) of cables/cords complete other brand(s) of electronics. I trust my own ears, first. Second, and unfortunately, there are many "gimmicks" in our hobby- steer clear of this non-sense.
Attend Audio shows, visit your local dealer/retailer and listen, listen, listen to the gear!

 

RE: Skin Effect, posted on December 2, 2014 at 11:39:11
Mike B.
Audiophile

Posts: 26354
Location: OR
Joined: September 27, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 1, 1999
 It is easy to prove by taking the same connector and plating it with different metals. I suspect the careful listener will note a difference between silver, gold, and rhodium.


 

RE: Skin Effect, posted on December 2, 2014 at 12:24:07
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Q: Should skin effect be taken in to consideration when looking to purchase cables?

A: Yes. It's often considered a good rule of thumb to choose line-level interconnect cables that feature maximum 22 AWG or smaller solid core copper conductors, or 24 maximum AWG or smaller solid core silver conductors. The same applies to speaker cables, however multiple individually insulated conductors are often bundled together in order to avoid audible skin effect while increasing the aggregate gauge for optimized driver damping/current delivery. Sometimes there are a number of solid core conductors in a bundle that are larger than 22/24 AWG maximum, but they tend to be carefully considered in relation to the smaller gauge conductors, especially phase related issues, cable resonances, and the essential sonic signature including the tonality of a particular cable build. That said, there are many good sounding cables that don't follow the rules. Listener preferences and/or compromised budgets tend to allow for cables with larger gauge stranded conductors which tend to mitigate audible skin effect often at the expense of coloration/distortion due to strand jumping and various strand lay geometries.

 

RE: Skin Effect, posted on December 6, 2014 at 20:08:22
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 In my experience "skin effect" is real and there is enough research to prove it. Some now even have the highs go through conductors that go around a nonconductive center. Dielectric is also a big contributor to possible degradation of sound quality. There are so many theories and so many brands of cables, they all have their approach, some valid, and some I suspect more hype than real.

As already mentioned, you have to listen to the cable you are looking to purchase in your system. Most companies allow an audition with return option. Cable builders know they can make cables that sound different, so you do need to find the style and cable that has "synergy" in your system.

The thing is don't get hung up on one aspect of a cable build. I done that, my issue was finding a cable better than the Anticable I was using but still addressing little to no dielectric. I eventually found a better sounding cable to me at a greater price but they had some dielectric, I had to admit though some is necessary to keep out what I describe as glare.

I am a minority in this but I like using same brand and series throughout my system, some call this "loom or full loom".

I ended up using Clarus, you might find their method interesting, as they use different strand construction for frequency range, such as the wire around nonconductive center to defeat skin effect, a flat ribbon for mids and I believe the bass conductor is solid core.

You also have various types of metalurgy used. I don't want to go over the same road but you will eventually go from being interested to finding the various research, approaches and construction maddening. The proof, is, in the hearing.

 

RE: Skin Effect, posted on December 14, 2014 at 07:21:52
mitch2
Audiophile

Posts: 1521
Location: Great Lakes
Joined: August 28, 2001
 In audio, you have phenomena that can be;
1. Explained by physics,
2. Measured,
3. Clearly heard by most people (in "blind" listening comparisons),
4. Believed to be heard by "golden eared audiophiles,"
5. Discussed endlessly in audio forums, and
6. Any, or all, of the above.
Skin effect meets 1,2,4,and 5, but, based on 1 and 2, the effect at audible frequencies is small (or nonexistent) and, based on the frequencies at which it would occur, and the magnitude of any possible changes, skin effect IMO falls into categories 4 and 5.
Specifically, the potential effects are generally taken to be signal loss at high frequencies and/or group delay. The "gold standard" to reduce skin effect is to use multiple, individually insulated wires of a small diameter (22awg or less) and closely spaced to keep inductance low.
Geometry probably plays a bigger role in how a cable sounds. The gear you use, your speakers and your room play a greater role in what you hear by many orders of magnitude, again, IMO.
If skin effect relative to diameter were such a big deal, I doubt Anti-Cables would have much of a following.

 

RE: Skin Effect, posted on December 17, 2014 at 16:05:56
DaveC113
Manufacturer

Posts: 9
Location: Front Range, CO
Joined: July 31, 2014
 Yes, I'd suggest using wire no larger than 24 gauge.

Skin effect is a big deal at higher frequencies and is the raison d'etre of litz wire. Some claim it is a non-issue at audio frequencies but everyone that actually builds cables seems to disagree with that assertion.

 

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