Soundstage and cables.

RE: Soundstage and cables., posted on September 27, 2014 at 14:16:18
Rob_Jones Audiophile Posts: 22 Location: Cornwall Joined: August 3, 2014	It's the old "chicken and egg" puzzle. Without good speaker cables you don't hear the performance of a good interconnect and likewise, there is no point in having top flight speaker cables being fed by an inadequate interconnect. Add to that, the variabilities of source, amplification and speakers will also affect the outcome. The British take on cables: http://cablejunction.boards.net/

RE: Soundstage and cables., posted on September 27, 2014 at 15:07:55
Flemke Audiophile Posts: 93 Location: Chicago Joined: December 20, 2005	Not much on the forum link. I think you are on to something with the I/C providing the 1st link in the chain. Tim

RE: Soundstage and cables., posted on September 27, 2014 at 18:30:53
Duster Manufacturer Posts: 17117 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: August 25, 2002	A more delicate line-level signal is more sensitive in nature, so an interconnect cable upgrade that provides an expanded soundstage is a better first option. That said, a mundane speaker cable downstream that smears the soundstage would make an otherwise fine sounding upstream interconnect cable upgrade a moot point unless addressed...

RE: Soundstage and cables., posted on September 27, 2014 at 19:06:47
Chris K. Audiophile Posts: 400 Location: West Central Florida Joined: August 15, 2001	I concur that the edge goes to the interconnect. Through experience, I've found soundstaging is more sensitive to the choice of interconnect, although having at least decent quality speaker cables is important.

I think, posted on September 28, 2014 at 08:16:48
Awe-d-o-file Dealer Posts: 21037 Location: 50 miles west of DC Joined: January 10, 2004	power cords first, interconnects second and speaker cable last. For when it comes to image unshielded cables are far superior. Yes that includes unshielded interconnects. ET ET "If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

RE: Soundstage and cables., posted on September 28, 2014 at 11:48:26
fantja Audiophile Posts: 15524 Location: Alabama Joined: September 11, 2010	Flemke- w/o power cord(s),first, nothing else matters.

Ditto: Power Cords First, posted on September 28, 2014 at 18:49:50
Duster Manufacturer Posts: 17117 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: August 25, 2002	The power cord is a vital aspect of a power supply, which creates the modulated signal in the first place, which is than transmitted downstream via cabling.

Uh, that does not really qualify as "a thought", posted on September 28, 2014 at 19:36:14
madisonears Audiophile Posts: 1587 Location: midwest Joined: September 6, 2006	What you have posted so far is the equivalent of a blank stare. I've never considered soundstage an effect. A characteristic of fidelity, perhaps, affected by all components in the signal chain, no single one more than any other. Regards, Tom E berate is 8 and benign is 9

+1 nt, posted on September 29, 2014 at 07:07:05
bjh Audiophile Posts: 18614 Location: Ontario Joined: November 22, 2003	.

RE: Uh, that does not really qualify as "a thought", posted on September 29, 2014 at 14:44:34
Flemke Audiophile Posts: 93 Location: Chicago Joined: December 20, 2005	Lighten up Francis. Just audio. Nothing that important. I am looking to improve the soundstage of my system. I have Shunyata power cords and conditioner. My I/c's are balanced diy with clear cardas connectors and my speaker cables are Audioquest Gibraltar. Tim

Seems that you've got nice stuff already, posted on September 29, 2014 at 20:07:12

madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006

With that level of quality, I don't know that there is a LOT more to extract from better cabling. What I would try first is losing the power conditioner. I have heard an excellent system with and without one (perhaps not as nice as yours), and there was definitely better 3D presentation without it.

After that, I think adjusting the speaker/room interface and listening position might pay better dividends than wire.

I have also found that capacitors in the signal path can have a profound affect on soundstage. Don't know to what level you want to mess with that sort of thing.

So there you go, Francis. It is, indeed, just audio. You're the one who believes the soundstage needs improving, whatever that means.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

RE: Seems that you've got nice stuff already, posted on September 30, 2014 at 05:07:42
Flemke Audiophile Posts: 93 Location: Chicago Joined: December 20, 2005	I have moded my amp and done some other work to the system. The power conditioner is easy to swap out. I only have my amp and pre amp connected to it. My phono is battery powered. My room is not great. I do have a nice level soundstage and the tone is good to me. Tim

RE: Uh, that does not really qualify as "a thought", posted on September 30, 2014 at 12:10:28
Jack G Audiophile Posts: 9740 Joined: September 24, 1999	I would go with ICs then play with power cords. In a totally different direction, have you tried any vibration control? Its rarely mentioned here, but if done well, it can improve the soundstage quite a bit, sometimes as much as cables. Just a thought. Jack

RE: Uh, that does not really qualify as "a thought", posted on September 30, 2014 at 15:43:06
Flemke Audiophile Posts: 93 Location: Chicago Joined: December 20, 2005	I have a bunch of Stillpoint Ultra's and they did make difference. The I/C's seem to be the best option. Tim

RE: Soundstage and cables., posted on September 30, 2014 at 19:30:13

kh6idf
Audiophile

Posts: 1474
Location: Texas
Joined: May 2, 2001

I think the quality of connections has a big effect on 'soundstage'.

I recently performed my once a year cleaning of all connections in my system where I take all the cables off and clean with de-oxit and progold, then reassemble.

Now the system has 'more' soundstage, not so much wider or deeper but it's just more apparent that there IS a soundstage. The other big improvement is the coherency of the sound, where all frequencies are better aligned in time (I think this is related to the improved soundstage).

The sound of reflections, reverberations, etc that give the sense of 3 dimensional space are fairly low level so it makes sense that the better the connections, the better these will be heard.

Swap out your ICs before going any further !!!, posted on October 1, 2014 at 12:18:54

Old SteveA
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: March 27, 2011

I seriously don't think "powerconditioning" does anything other then help Soundstaging. These effects are more dependent on the information coming from the recording.

All you really need is any other pair of ICs that you are fairly sure work,
we're not really concerned about the 'SQ' of these test ICs as we're just listening to see if we can hear anymore 'sounstaging'information available from a different set of ICs

(Please take no offense to this ,but your mentioning of your ICs threw up a "red flag" to the possible culprit for your lack of "staging" in your music
& particularly for the fact that you are running a "balanced"configuration)

My feeling..., posted on October 2, 2014 at 16:13:15
mkuller Audiophile Posts: 38130 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: April 22, 2003	...the lower the level of the signal, the more difference the cables will make. Tonearm - CD player - preamp - amp - speakers. But I don't think cables will make a huge difference in soundstaging - just fine tuning. The biggest improvement in soundstaging can be optimizing your speaker placement in the room and adding some room treatment at first reflection points.

RE: Soundstage and cables., posted on October 3, 2014 at 12:09:56
Mike B. Audiophile Posts: 26356 Location: OR Joined: September 27, 1999 Contributor Since: September 1, 1999	The speakers are the most important factor. Then placement in the room, and electronics and cabling. The interconnects are the most critical IMO.

RE: Swap out your ICs before going any further !!!, posted on October 5, 2014 at 10:29:57
Flemke Audiophile Posts: 93 Location: Chicago Joined: December 20, 2005	I have a pair of Shunyata Pythons coming this week. I'll report back. Tim

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Soundstage and cables.

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