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Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs

85.19.92.6
Posted on July 31, 2014 at 06:09:04
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
 Hi to All,
after some hesitations i have decided to stick with a complete solid state chain with a digital source also solid state.
But now i have to smooth out sounds a little, even if at the cost of loosing some detail and extension.
Have you any experience of balanced cable able to tame some harshness/hardness in the sound ? cables able to relax the sound ?
Possibly cheap ones.
Thanks a lot for any kind and valuable advice.


Kind regards,
bg

 

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RE: Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs , posted on August 3, 2014 at 14:05:19
Rob_Jones
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: Cornwall
Joined: August 3, 2014
 My experience says that you should stick with a copper based cable and steer clear of silver plated or pure silver cables. Your budget suggests you are going down that road anyway.

However, I don't think using cables as tone controls is the most logical step anyway as it seems the harshness is being generated somewhere within your
system.

We may be able to get a better handle on your problem by listing your components and room decor too. For example, is it lightly or heavily furnished?



The British take on cables:
http://cablejunction.boards.net/

 

RE: Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs , posted on August 4, 2014 at 10:14:10
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
 Hi and thanks a lot for the very kind and valuable reply.
Starting from the bottom my room is lightly furnished
My system is:

PC > Cambridge usb Dacmagic > Primare Pre30 line preamp > Abrahamsen V4.0 power amp > Monitor Audio Silver center speakers (2 unit for L and R)

The power amp is the one in the link but without the bank of caps in the right bottom corner (this is the upgraded version)

Cables are Klotz and Planet Wave XLRs

I read that solid core/litz copper cable tend to smooth out the sound quite a bit ... but they are always expensive.
Thanks again.

Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs , posted on August 4, 2014 at 11:57:02
Rob_Jones
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: Cornwall
Joined: August 3, 2014
 A lightly furnished room isn't going to help with your problem, so add some damping in the form of rugs if you have a bare floor, a couple of indoor pot plants can work wonders too, as some heavy lined drapes. Stand in the middle of the room and clap your hands. If you hear a reverb from the clap coming immediately back off the walls you NEED to add some damping to the room. Your bass definition will improve and treble/imaging focus will also improve too.

Your system seems well balanced apart from the Monitor Audio Silver series speakers which are none too shy in the treble department, which I suspect is giving rise to the "harshness" you say. I doubt very much if a change of XLR cables is going to tame that and Klotz cables have a neutral balance to begin with so a Litz cable isn't going to be the answer you seek either.

Here is a cheap/easy answer; if you have the grilles fitted to the speakers, fold some tissue paper and tuck it in behind the grilles in front of the tweeters. Just one or two thicknesses is enough to calm a lively treble down. Not the ideal answer but it will prove a point.

Your long term answer I think is to audition other speakers that have a smoother top end.




The British take on cables:
http://cablejunction.boards.net/

 

RE: Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs , posted on August 4, 2014 at 12:02:31
Rob_Jones
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: Cornwall
Joined: August 3, 2014
 Ah, nearly forgot . . . .

If you are handy with a soldering iron or know someone who is that can help you if you can't solder, placing a 100ohm damping resistor across the tweeter terminals will also help to tone down and smooth out a harsh/lively treble. 100 ohms is a starting point and for more treble reduction reduce the value of the resistor by a half, too much reduction then double the value.
The British take on cables:
http://cablejunction.boards.net/

 

RE: Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs , posted on August 4, 2014 at 12:11:00
loftarasa
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Joined: June 25, 2013
 Specifically, two balanced entry-level ICs that are inherently warm/smooth are Supra EFF-IXLR and Van den Hul (The Wave or D-102 III)

 

RE: Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs , posted on August 4, 2014 at 22:53:29
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004


Hi and thank you very much again for the very helpful advice
I tried the clapping as you suggest and i heard some kind of reverb
The walls are completely bare actually.
Then i put a ply of toilet paper on each tweeter and seems to work.

Elaborating a little bit it is always this damned midrange that creates me some problems
The voices tend to be thin, flat and hard during sound peaks
I read a lot on solid core cables ... someone thinks of those as the only very musical cables (and also litz) mentioning a so called inter-strand distortion for the multi-stranded cables.
Also for internal wiring of equipment they swear for solid core to be the better option.
The Klotz i am using are already decent quality from what i read.
I think that ICs are more important that speaker wires.
I have found the one in the link ... already a little expensive.
But they are very well reviewed.
Thanks a lot again.







Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs , posted on August 5, 2014 at 00:48:32
Rob_Jones
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: Cornwall
Joined: August 3, 2014
 The more information you give, the less and less I think that any cable is going to provide a solution. I can easily forsee you spending a lot of time and money and still not resolving the problems by using cables as a band aid - it will end in frustration and anger (and poorer too!). This is from someone who has built and sold many thousands of cables. In fact the tissue trick I asked you to try has a far GREATER effect than any cable change (especially balanced cables) and fitting a damping resistor across the tweeter terminals will replicate the tissues effect but in a more consistent controlled manner.

Having a 'live' room with many reflections from bare walls I think is just adding to your problems, because it is midrange more than any other frequency that resonates around the listening room and drowns out the desirable bass and treble frequencies. I would imagine too that soundstaging and image focus is virtually non-existent. Putting some pictures up might help, a fabric wall hanging certainly will, as will rugs and pot plants.

I am concentrating my replies towards real solutions for you rather than merely gambles on various "flavours" of cables which won't even be remotely beneficial in curing your issues.
The British take on cables:
http://cablejunction.boards.net/

 

" fitting a damping resistor across the tweeter terminals " , posted on August 5, 2014 at 01:48:15
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks a lot again
I am just worried about possible issues with the power amp after fitting a damping resistor across the tweeter terminals
1) Is this mod safe for the amp ?
2) Will it alter the crossover point ?
I will proceed with that first for sure ... very easy to do.
And then i will look for some wall panels .. they are some nice looking ones around.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: " fitting a damping resistor across the tweeter terminals " , posted on August 5, 2014 at 01:52:42
Rob_Jones
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: Cornwall
Joined: August 3, 2014
 The tweeter damping resistor mod is perfectly safe for any amplifier.

It will not alter the crossover point, it merely flattens out the tweeter's peak slightly.

It will not change the crossover impedance that the amplifier "sees".
The British take on cables:
http://cablejunction.boards.net/

 

RE: " fitting a damping resistor across the tweeter terminals " , posted on August 5, 2014 at 05:47:57
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004


Hi and thanks a lot again
A very smart idea ... i will try it for sure
The Monitor Audio have a metal dome
even if it sounds quite clean for sure it is not a fabric tweeter
I will try it with great curiosity
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: " fitting a damping resistor across the tweeter terminals " , posted on August 5, 2014 at 09:02:58
Rob_Jones
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: Cornwall
Joined: August 3, 2014
 Yes I am very familiar with the Monitor Audio Silver Series and it's metal dome tweeter's characteristics, hence why I have steered you well away from the cable swapping route and towards paying attention to taming the tweeter and ways to make your listening room less lively.

Let us know how you progress :-)
The British take on cables:
http://cablejunction.boards.net/

 

RE: Any experience of smooth sounding XLRs , posted on August 5, 2014 at 09:09:20
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
 "placing a 100ohm damping resistor across the tweeter terminals will also help to tone down and smooth out a harsh/lively treble. 100 ohms is a starting point"

I like your advice...

Taking a broadband (RF) view of the system, once your tweeters unload you end up with essentially an open cable which of course will have multiple resonances excited by HF energy from the PA and local sources of energy. Putting a resistive load at the speaker end that matches the cable's characteristic impedance can tame the reflections both in and out of band.

My experience is that the "better" your cables are in the sense of having less dielectric absorption the worse they will be in a mismatched system. And home audio is nothing-but. This can have the paradoxical effect of rewarding poor cable performance. A low-loss cable with a conjugate match at the load end is the best of both worlds for both the interconnects and the speakers.

I just use resistors, the peak/average power in home audio is so high that even a few watt resistor at the speaker will do it especially since you want to match the Zo of the cable, not the output impedance of the power amplifier. Matching the interconnects is trickier since the Zo of the source is often similar to the cable impedance. I cheat and use 300ohm open lines along with build-out resistors. One can probably pull it off with RC networks at the load and no build-out but I don't have any experience with it.

Thanks for the interesting post.

Rick

 

RE: " fitting a damping resistor across the tweeter terminals " , posted on August 6, 2014 at 10:59:45
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks again for the valuable advice
At first i have been struck by the clarity ...
And i have also now some concerns about the quality of the woofers
They look very plastic ... the cabinet is very well built instead
Fact is that i am enamoured of the D'Appolito concept.
And also i read very good reviews of some D'Appolito monitors.
Kind regards,
bg

 

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