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Re UL approval

72.130.96.11
Posted on June 25, 2014 at 15:19:46
unclestu
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 Teflon coated insulated power cords do not make UL approval because NO one has submitted any. or at least that was what I was told by a multimillion dollar cable company. UL approval means spending a minimum of $15K plus several reels of cable to be tested to destruction. Once approval is gained, it is not like a patent where your design is protected and you can legally use for infringement like a patent.

UL approval means any one can comply with the design approved and gain UL protection (at least in the US).

No company wants to spend the money to open the door for everyone else, apparently

 

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RE: Re UL approval, posted on June 25, 2014 at 16:15:42
Basslines
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Posts: 373
Location: The Great White North
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 Nice post. Totally misinformed and inaccurate, but the effort is appreciated.

 

correction invited, posted on June 25, 2014 at 18:19:12
unclestu
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 nt

 

RE: Re UL approval, posted on June 26, 2014 at 06:29:42
TRUFI
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Posts: 622
Location: So. California
Joined: March 16, 2002
 I agree. I have seen power cords with PTFE wire and UL approvals but I do not recall the brands. Do some research.

 

RE: Re UL approval, posted on June 26, 2014 at 15:19:50
unclestu
Dealer

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 I have mil surplus teflon insulated cables, but have never seen anything commercially available. Well maybe MSA an VH audio but I believe they do not carry the UL approval.

Liability concerns preclude manufacturers like AQ, MIT, Transparent, Kimber and virtually every major manufacturer including Belden from selling a teflon power cord.

 

RE: Re UL approval, posted on June 26, 2014 at 16:44:50
PingPing
Audiophile

Posts: 196
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 Interesting, what do you believe is/are the benefit(s) of teflon insulated cables for AC Power :)

 

RE: Re UL approval, posted on June 26, 2014 at 18:25:57
unclestu
Dealer

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 Powercords pass AC signal just like signal wire. It should be superior for the same reasons signal wire use teflon.

 

RE: Re UL approval, posted on June 26, 2014 at 20:27:56
jad
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Posts: 228
Location: OH
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 Not sure of about your rational but I have made and currently use several Teflon wire power cables. The problem with Teflon is that most plugs and female IEC's have a compression strain relief. When tightened too much the Teflon insulation will split exposing the conductors instead of crushing like other more flexible insulations. Obviously when they split they can short (first-hand experience). I would guess this is why none have been submitted for approval as they wouldn't pass for that reason. In addition because they are not very flexible if they are forced into sharp 270-360 degree bends they would also tend to split. I have learned to slip polyethylene tubing over the section that will be compressed by the strain relief and only tighten enough to withstand moderate amount of strain. I also assure there are no tight bends or kinks in the cord as well. Bottom line you really need to be careful using Teflon in high voltage situations.

 

RE: correction , posted on June 27, 2014 at 06:00:30
Cpk
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Posts: 1518
Location: PA
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 UL 817 1.1 This standard specifies the requirements for cord sets and power-supply cords employing molded-on or assembled-on fittings, rated 600 V maximum, and intended for use in non-hazardous locations in accordance with the Canadian Electrical Code, Part I, CSA C22.1-12 and General Requirements – Canadian Electrical Code, Part II, CSA C22.2 No. 0-10, in Canada, and the National Electrical Code, ANSI/NFPA 70, in the United States.

You don't get to make up the rules they are already made up by the NEC which dictates everything up to and including insulation color. You could send in a cord that doesn't follow the prescribed standards but that would be a waste of money. After it is made in accordance it still has to be verified by UL that it pass the various parameters like, Conductor secureness test, Security of insulation test, Strain relief test, Dielectric voltage-withstand test, Insulation resistance test, Accelerated aging test, Crushing test, Impact resistance test, Flexing test, Jacket retention test, Adhesion test, Cycling heat test. UL can't rewrite the NEC code. The NEC specifies either rubber, thermoplastic, or thermoset which it specifically differentiates from FEP and PTFE.

 

RE: Re UL approval, posted on June 27, 2014 at 10:14:04
Crazy Dave
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 Teflon is a better dielectric, but we are talking about a 60hz sine wave, not a 20-20,000hz complex signal.

Dave

 

do you, posted on June 27, 2014 at 12:50:54
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 Run a PLC? Where does the noise come from ? If the noise on the line is corrupted. , it makes things harder for certain filters

YMMV n FWIW

 

My Mil surplus, posted on June 27, 2014 at 13:46:47
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 teflon powercords use molded ends making mechanical hold downs moot. There was a warning to keep the bend radius to a certain diameter as I recall though.

 

Isn't that essentially, posted on June 27, 2014 at 13:51:47
unclestu
Dealer

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 what I stated?
Teflon is not on the list of approved wire. That doesn't stop use of teflon for speaker cables and interconnects, which pretty much avoid UL approval because they are low level voltage carriers.


I'm pretty sure NEC does not cover all audio electronic components nor all electronic components, and neither does UL for that matter...

 

Yes, if you meant by the statement, posted on June 27, 2014 at 17:01:56
Cpk
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Posts: 1518
Location: PA
Joined: May 13, 2005
 Teflon coated insulated power cords do not make UL approval because NO one has submitted any. That 'NO one' equals the NEC and 'has submitted any' equals hasn't approved for use.

I see your point Stu, essentially the same. PTFE and FEP are approved for various applications from the NEC just not external power cords which is the topic at hand.

 

RE: Re UL approval, posted on June 27, 2014 at 19:08:58
PingPing
Audiophile

Posts: 196
Joined: May 22, 2014
 Yes, this is why I ask ... AC is only 50hz or 60hz and Teflon is not flexible enough...

 

RE: teflon, posted on June 28, 2014 at 08:36:27
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 Hmmm......guess manufacturers using teflon insulation for speaker cables n IC 's haven't got the message.

 

RE: teflon, posted on June 28, 2014 at 10:22:20
jad
Audiophile

Posts: 228
Location: OH
Joined: August 23, 2002
 If a speaker cable shorts you might blow your amp and if an IC shorts you will get a loud hum but neither will blow a circuit breaker, possibly cause a fire or electrocute someone. Also I have never seen an IC or speaker cord that is UL approved. Remember that I said I made and use Teflon power cords (at my own risk) along with IC's and speaker cables but don't believe any could pass UL inspection for the reasons stated above which was the original topic of the post.

 

please READ, posted on June 28, 2014 at 16:42:38
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 my reply to your earlier post.

Sheesh !!!

 

RE: teflon, posted on June 30, 2014 at 15:08:28
Crazy Dave
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Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 The conversation was about power cords.

Dave

 

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