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Got my new space heater today!

184.90.51.10
Posted on January 20, 2017 at 14:05:57
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 Here's my brand new Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II with it's friend, my vintage Philips AF877 "plastic fantastic" table. Sounds sweet right out of the box.

I've had tube preamps but this is my first tube power amp. I auditioned a couple in the past, the Cary SLi-80 and the CJ MV60SE. The third time is a charm. But I forgot how hot they get! ;-)








___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

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RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 20, 2017 at 14:09:30
AbeCollins
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Very nice! I would love to get your impressions of the Cronus Magnum II vs the SLI-80. I've always wanted to hear the SLI-80.

Yes, they do warm up the listening room!


 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 20, 2017 at 14:12:34
samac
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: midwest
Joined: August 28, 2004
 Sweet! Nothing like new components. I love seeing pics of new gear. Enjoy.

Cheers,

Scott

 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 20, 2017 at 14:40:34
goober
Audiophile

Posts: 50
Location: Northern Virginia
Joined: November 26, 2004
 Very, very nice, both the amp and the turntable!

 

Beautiful system - enjoy, posted on January 20, 2017 at 15:02:46
airtime
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Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
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 Very nice system.

Any reason you didn't go for the integrated amp? Just curious.

 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 20, 2017 at 15:44:00
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Nice! JoshT

 

Phillips 877, posted on January 20, 2017 at 18:28:20
bigshow
Audiophile

Posts: 472
Location: WI
Joined: December 3, 2012
 I had one of those. My first serious turntable. I used it with Sonus Blue Gold cart. I can't remember what happened to it. I have a friend who still has one and loves it to this day.
bigshow

 

Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 20, 2017 at 18:36:38
Steelhead
Audiophile

Posts: 863
Location: AK
Joined: December 11, 2003
 Well being a Mass hole (sorry) Mass resident you can probably use the heat output to good effect.

Congrats and happy for you. Looks like a very sweet setup. Vinyl and Tubes OH YEAH BABY!!!!

ENJOY!!!!!

 

congratulations, posted on January 20, 2017 at 18:46:37
bullethead
 that looks like a winner, I read it has a remote control as well, very happy for you,

 

RE: Beautiful system - enjoy, posted on January 20, 2017 at 20:39:05
Drew769
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: April 24, 2011
 The Cronus is an integrated amp

 

Thanks Abe . . ., posted on January 20, 2017 at 20:56:13
JoshT
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Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 Your posts over the past few years were certainly a factor in my auditioning the Cronus Magnum II and so far I'm very happy I pulled the trigger.

I really liked the SLI-80 in the triode setting. It sounded really clean and clear and nice. But in the ultralinear setting, it just sounded off to me. Somehow just a bit unbalanced and unnatural. That said, it's been about 15 years since I auditioned the SLI-80. Perhaps the newer versions are different, but I remember being put off enough by the ultralinear setting that I took a pass. It's actually amazing how long it's been in continual production. Beautiful looking.

I auditioned the SLI-80 shortly after 9/11, and I drove to work with it in the trunk of my car the day that I returned it. At the time every car was searched before entering the parking garage, and the security guard got a bit freaked out when he saw it. He said, "Um, Sir, WHAT is that THING in your trunk?" Actually, that's the only reason I can remember how long ago it was!
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

That's right . . ., posted on January 20, 2017 at 20:58:18
JoshT
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 If you were referring back to the Cary I mentioned in my OP, Airtime, I described why I didn't buy it in my response to Abe. But, yes, the Cronus is the integrated. The Atlas is the power amp version.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

It's a bit of a nostalgia piece for me . . ., posted on January 20, 2017 at 21:07:36
JoshT
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Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
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 I lucked out on this table. I bought it from a local guy who had listed it on Craig's List for $49 (and he even insisted on giving me change when I gave him $50). I had to have a couple other minor things addressed, so it has probably cost me about $100 total, but I really like it. Knock on wood, everything works and its average speed is a constant 33.28 rpm.

Way back in 1978 when I was 13. I got my first "real stereo" as a Christmas present. I went with my mom to the Tech HiFi used and demo store in Waltham, MA, and they directed us to a $400 system. The turntable was the entry level (347?) of the same series. I remember seeing the higher end versions at Tech HiFI and thinking "Some day!" But moved on to other brands over the years. So, when I saw the listing for the 877, I jumped at it for this secondary system set up and it brings back fun memories.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

Hahaha! The only problem is . . ., posted on January 20, 2017 at 21:09:51
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 We spend our winters in Florida, which is where this system is!

But so far it's not triggered the AC. ;-)

Massholes rule. Go Pats! :-)
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

Thanks for the kind words guys!, posted on January 20, 2017 at 21:15:19
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 I'll post further impressions over time. Been running it since I posted and listening as I've been reading. LPs sound great as do Apple Lossless files streaming from iTunes to an Apple Express and then to a Music Hall DAC2.5 by optical cable.

So, yeah, I'm happy. More importantly perhaps, my wife came into the room and listened a bit and then looked at me and said, "Well, it does sound really good. I wonder why?" Not sure what she meant by the "wonder why", but she's happy with it too which makes it even easier for me to like it! ;-)
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: Thanks Abe . . ., posted on January 20, 2017 at 23:49:40
AbeCollins
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Your Cronus Magnum II has the improved phono stage, a better remote control with finer adjustment (not as touchy as mine), and some other improvements. Enjoy!

" He said, "Um, Sir, WHAT is that THING in your trunk?"

Did it have Russian tubes in it? Just kidding. ;-)


 

Sweeeeeeeet!, posted on January 21, 2017 at 05:10:13
bcowen
Audiophile

Posts: 1076
Location: North Carolina
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 I've never listened to a Rogue, but I really like the clean, uncluttered layout and the classy appearance. Hope you get a lot of enjoyment from it!

The Philips brings back memories too. My neighbor is currently putting together a system, and when I asked him what he was going to do for a turntable he proceeded to pull a Philips 312 out of a box that he'd had in storage for over 30 years. Exact same 'table I had back in college! That thing was a real sleeper....a bit expensive compared to the typical Tech Hi-Fi fare of the day, but way better than its price would suggest. Amazingly, LP Gear had a belt for it, and once put in the thing fired right up. He needs to do some work on the cabling that's visibly corroded, but I bet that thing ends up sounding pretty nice once he does. Wish I'd never sold mine. :)

 

Welcome to the world of fine sounding space heaters, posted on January 21, 2017 at 07:18:02
E-Stat
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 despite the fact they are obsolete, unreliable, have high distortion, etc. :)

 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 21, 2017 at 07:58:02
Stale
Audiophile

Posts: 3263
Location: So. California
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 Nice. And contrary to some opinions, Philips had some nice and reliable pieces of gear while they were still made in Holland.

I am curious about CJ MV60SE. It is not integrated, others mentioned are, what pre did you use it with? I had Rogue Stereo 90 which is great amp but ultimately replaced it with CJ MV60SE that I love way more. Can you compare CJ to Cronus?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 21, 2017 at 08:41:17
SpotcheckBilly12345
 Congrats on the Rogue. I've had my Cronus Magnum for about three years and I still love it!

Living in the Colorado west-central Rockies I kinda like the "space heater" aspect for about seven months of the year. As to the other five months, I had refrigerated central AC installed a few years ago so the Rogue's heat doesn't bother me one bit on those 100F summer days.

Enjoy your new amp,
SB

 

Congrats Josh ..., posted on January 21, 2017 at 09:03:19
reelsmith.
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 The amp looks sweet ...and a space heater in the winter is not a bad thing.

I sold your table during my years at Waltham, Camera & Stereo. They sound very good. I had an 829 for a few years and I liked it a lot.

Enjoy your new amp !

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 21, 2017 at 09:26:56
AbeCollins
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I'd be curious to get your take on the MV60SE vs the Rogue Stereo 90.

I think the sound of those amps is greatly influenced by the preamps ahead of them. Were you using the same preamp with each power amp?

That being said, I actually prefer the Cronus Magnum Integrated (with it's internal preamp) to the Stereo 90 that I had which was driven directly by a DAC that had variable output level.

I suppose the Stereo 90 driven directly by the DAC should have been more transparent, and maybe it was. But the overall setup seemed a little lean especially in the mids, compared to the Cronus Magnum. I like a bit more of that warm 'tuby' sound. Some say the Cronus Magnum is not very 'tuby' sounding. I guess that's a matter of opinion too and where you're coming from.




 

RE: Welcome to the world of fine sounding space heaters, posted on January 21, 2017 at 09:33:23
AbeCollins
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Weird hobby huh? We argue daily about what is or is not 'optimized' in our digital gear yet we don't care so much about the preamp and amp if they 'sound' wonderful. I'm right there with you. I love tube gear, don't care much how they 'measure' if they sound right.

And then there are those who argue that our digital sources are not 'optimized' but they can't offer a clear definition, or even their own definition of what 'optimized' means.





 

I think the key, posted on January 21, 2017 at 09:48:24
E-Stat
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 to that individual's thinking is that you must have models!

"In proper engineering and science, optimisations are arrived at via models."

Even then, having models doesn't necessarily ensure that they are comprehensive enough to include all relevant factors. Ask any audio engineer if metrics alone are sufficient to create results that are consistent with observational data.

Ok. What I model is the sound of live, unamplified music as I hear it in many venues. :)

 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 21, 2017 at 10:42:24
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 Yes, I should clarify. I didn't audition the MV60SE this time around or for this system. I auditioned it for another system about 7 years ago. The preamp was a CJ Premier 17LS (series 1) and the speakers were B&W CDM1SEs. I was comparing the MV60SE to my CJ solid state MF2250 to see if all tubes was the way to go for me.

To me, at least in that system, the MV60SE sounded hyper detailed and somewhat dry. I still kind of enjoyed it, but when I put the MF2250 back into the system the next day, I realized how much more I liked it. It seemed more balanced, neutral and even liquid to me, which really surprised me.

So, there shouldn't have been any system compatibility issue. That said, many folks have been surprised by my impressions, and some have suggested that the power tubes might not have been biased properly or might have been old and ready for replacement, and that is possible. It was a demo unit at my local dealer.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

Nice! In future you'll have some..., posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:12:49
musetap
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  Since: January 28, 2004
 tube rolling to look into enjoying too.

You can "reconfigure" the heater aspect!

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: I think the key, posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:22:30
AbeCollins
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I got it. And he's supposedly run all the models with their infinite permutations and variables since he's the authority on doing digital right.

We don need no stinkin models! We have ears. ;-)



 

Thanks Dean!, posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:26:55
JoshT
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Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 I recall from your posts that you worked there while at Brandeis. I loved that place, but only bought a camera there.

I got my first "real" stereo down the street at the demo/used Tech HiFi store, and it included the entry level Philips TT, with an AT cart, and the Philips 20 wpc receiver. My speakers were KLH made in Cambridge, but they were, I learned later, part of a line that was made for Tech HiFi as a budget speaker, rather than one of the true classic KLHs. Still, they were quite nice.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: Nice! In future you'll have some..., posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:28:33
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 Yes, I'm already considering trying some Gold Lion KT77s based on what I have read, but no time soon. Maybe in a year or so.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:31:25
AbeCollins
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Wow, interesting and almost eerie how your experiences are very close to my own.

I've never heard the MV-60SE but I owned the CJ Premier 11a and the CJ MF2250A. I didn't find the Premier 11a to be dry but overall I thought the MF2250A was more tonally balanced. The Premier 11a had more of that '3-dimensional soundstage' though.



 

Do you guys recall the editorial in Stereophile a few years ago . . ., posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:37:30
JoshT
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Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
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 There was an editorial dividing audiophiles into three groups: Those who find source components most critical; those who find speakers most critical; and those who find the preamp/amp most critical. I cannot recall who wrote it or when exactly it was published, but it spoke to me.

I'm a preamp/amp kind of audiophile. That does not mean I don't consider each link to be important. In fact, I have heard a number of speakers I don't think I could live with regardless of the preamp and amp. But I feel like if you get the preamp and amp (or integrated amp) right, then you'll have a lot of flexibility in source components and speakers. And if you get them wrong, no system will sound right regardless.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: Do you guys recall the editorial in Stereophile a few years ago . . ., posted on January 21, 2017 at 12:18:41
AbeCollins
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 I don't recall seeing that Stereophile article but I'm one of those guys who believes everything matters, but I place higher priority on some items vs others.

When I was big into CD players, they mattered a lot. I could hear the differences, but I suspect most of the differences were due to the DAC and analog output stage of the CDP. No preamp, amp, or speaker could compensate for a source that was not delivering at it's best.

Skipping ahead to computer based audio, I think most folks will agree that the music file and where it came from along with how it was ripped matters the most. I'm one of those. Basically starting with a good sounding CD then ripping w/o using lossy compression is vitally important. No MP3 or AAC files. Or buying a high quality hi-res music file is fine too.

Now we start to get into the religious wars in my opinion. I say the DAC is most important, along with good player software. Not the computer or the fact that it is a powerful or low-powered PC, Mac, Windows, macOS, or Linux. It's the DAC. Yes, you can tweak the Mac / PC for incremental improvements in sound. You can tweak the USB port, tweak power supplies and disks, etc., but the DAC will have a much bigger overall impact. That's been my take on it for years but others disagree and that's OK.


 

Those were my favorite EL34 based power tubes..., posted on January 21, 2017 at 14:01:14
musetap
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 out of more brands/vintages than I care to think.

A year makes sense if you can wait that long!

ENJOY!

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Very close ! ..., posted on January 21, 2017 at 14:39:15
reelsmith.
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 Pretty good memory Josh! I went to Bentley ('76-'81).

I used to stop at that Tech Hi-Fi Bargain Basement every day on my way to work at WC&S.

Not only did they sell demos, returned units and scratch and dents, they were also the clearing house for all of the trade-in items for the Boston area stores.

A lot of great stuff went through that shop at crazy cheap prices. I bought some really cool gear ...like a Thorens TD-125 with an Infinity Black Widow arm for $150.

I wonder if we were ever in WC&S or the Tech Hi-Fi at the same time ?

Dean.






reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: Welcome to the world of fine sounding space heaters, posted on January 21, 2017 at 15:41:49
bcowen
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Posts: 1076
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 The best way to optimize digital is to put some tubes in the box. :)

 

RE: Got my new space heater today!, posted on January 22, 2017 at 09:29:23
classfolkphile
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Posts: 533
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 That leanness may obviously have been the lack of an active pre-amp. Or a difference in tube types and ages.

 

Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on January 22, 2017 at 12:47:13
classfolkphile
Audiophile

Posts: 533
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 even after several years. And I owned a CJ MV60SE/Premier 17LS combo (which was quite good).

The unit can be improved substantially with better tubes and fuses (disclosure: I have a set of Synergistic Red fuses for the Magnum up for sale as I upgraded to the Black ones).

Unlike many amps, the phase splitters and, particularly, the drivers have a significant effect on the sound. NOS signal tubes still beat any new production. I especially like Mullard for the driver position, RCA/Raytheon black-plates for the phase splitters, and Radiotechnique for the pre-amp.

IMO, KT120s sound good, KT88s and 6550s better, and KT66s best of all for the power tubes. KT77s sounded off (discontinuous) for some reason and KT90s lean. EL34s, in this amp, are rolled off on top and bottom.

 

Hahaha! The only problem is . . ., posted on January 22, 2017 at 14:04:45
Steelhead
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Posts: 863
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Florida, well here is what I am dealing with at the moment.

Please I have a son in law from Rhode Island so trust me I get the Patriots spiel whenever they win (which is very frequent). I always had the Yankees to throw back but the bosox crowd even had to shut me up on that. I did get to Gillette Stadium twice. Held the American flag on the field actually as I was assigned to the University of Rhode Island ROTC department and we did the color guard during the National anthem at a couple of Pat's game. Great management and team. Took good care and use and had nice seats on the 50 yard line.

Lucky enough to have hit the Florida keys a few years ago. Loved it and would absolutely love to get back there ESPECIALLY NOW that we have a real winter again.

Happy spinning Josh.

 

I am not surprized with that, posted on January 22, 2017 at 17:22:02
Stale
Audiophile

Posts: 3263
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 First to put disclaimer that I do not like B&W sound. And more drivers they have my opinion of them is worse.

Particular speakers sounded bright and uneven to me even with very mellow Metronome CDP with Plinius when I heard them years ago. Due to uneven impedance of the speaker, any tube amp would most likely make it even more unbalanced.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

 

I am not surprized with that, either, posted on January 22, 2017 at 18:04:21
Stale
Audiophile

Posts: 3263
Location: So. California
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 With Rogue I have used several premps that I can remember. Musical Fidelity CD Pre24, Acurus RL11?!?, Myriad MP100 and VTL finally 2.5.

I do not find Stereo 90 bright but neutral, like good SS. But, it is sensitive to tubes rolling and I recall that it became bright when using Electro-Harmonix even more when partnered with the same or Sovtek (12AX7LPS?!?, 6SN7 Sylvania) diver tubes. Neutral with SED 6550 and Tungsol driver rubes, on the softer side the same with Myllard NOS 12AX7. Can not remember that I used it other than SED and EH power tubes, but I tried various 12AX7 and 6SN7, Tungsol, Myllard, Matsushita, Sovtek, Sylvania, RCA...

I tried driving various amps, including amps discussed, directly with various DACS, phono preamps and was never happy. Sound seemed cleaner, but ultimately never right; usually boring, bleached, missing a soul.

With CJ I used VTL 2.5 only. I love it very much. I am sorry that I will repeat their motto, but it just sounds right. There is just rightness in timbre, dynamics coherence, sound stage, flow, and hart of the music. I can not say that bass is this, mid is that, treble such and such, it is one of the amps that makes everything fit together right.

CJ is not what people imagine thinking of old CJ amps with EL34 tubes, presuming stock tubes. It can be made somewhat warmer or leaner by swapping tubes but it never changes basic character, you can say that it is less sensitive than Stereo 90 to tube rolling.

If I have to describe, MV60SE in comparison to Stereo 90 has more body and better coherence, even when CJ is in UL and 90 in triode mode.

For those who like tubier sound, they can use EL34 in MV60SE (they are the same amps but set for different tuber, can be converted to either) and I presume switching to triode. Drawback is that it requires "surgery".




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

 

Entirely possible, posted on January 23, 2017 at 08:51:06
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 I agree on B&W speakers. I came to realize that, at least in the various systems I heard their different models in, the drivers didn't integrate well, they didn't image well, and they were tipped up in the upper mids. I tried to like the CDM1SEs, but sold them to a friend after a few years, and he sold them less than a year later.

That said, mine were 2 way stand mounted speakers and sounded decent enough with the Premier 17LS and MF2250. With the MV60SE, they became unlistenable (to me anyway).

I'd love to hear it in a different system because I loved the original MV60 with the EL34s but never heard it in that system. When I heard it in another system, it sounded magical.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: I am not surprized with that, either, posted on January 23, 2017 at 09:47:05
AbeCollins
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 Thanks.

Are you saying the CJ MV60SE is the one with more body and fuller & richer sound vs the Stereo 90 ?

And the Stereo 90 more toward neutral vs the CJ ?

The Premier 11a I had was nice but I always felt it was light in the bass compared to some other tube amps.


 

RE: Welcome to the world of fine sounding space heaters, posted on January 23, 2017 at 09:48:42
AbeCollins
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or tubes somewhere in the system, like the preamp and amp. ;-)


 

Thanks for your input, posted on January 24, 2017 at 07:32:23
JoshT
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Location: Eastern Massachusetts
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 So far I am just overjoyed with what I'm hearing, so I'm not eager to change anything.

But I know the urge to experiment with tube rolling will eventually get to me!

I had to Premier 17LS with the MF2250, which was a wonderful combination. The MV60SE didn't please me when I home auditioned it in place of the MF2250, but it could have been a system issue or, since it was demo unit, old tubes and/or out of bias power tubes?
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

Update . . . "Double Plus 1!", posted on January 24, 2017 at 07:45:11
JoshT
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Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 I love this amplifier and, as predicted, it has sounded better each day. It was great out of the box, but sounds more open and airy on top than initially.

Right now I am using, to put it mildly, very modest speakers because this system is transitioning from a vintage mid-fi system to a more high end system (the Cronus replaced a 1978 Heathkit receiver). So . . . I'm running the same Cambridge Soundworks Model 6 speakers that I found in my mom's basement a few years ago. Suffice it to say they've never sounded better! And actually, they sound remarkably good.

But speakers will be the next upgrade. Suggestions for a medium-sized room in a condo are welcome. My taste in music runs the full range of genres, so a good all-rounder at under $1,500 for a pair would be welcome. Used is fine, and maybe even preferable, though I'd likely lower the budget cap for used. For a new speaker choice, I am considering the Golden Ear Aeon 3 (the larger of the two stand mounters) based on reviews, price, and availability at this dealer, but of course I'd home audition first. Not really in a rush either.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: Update . . . "Double Plus 1!", posted on January 24, 2017 at 11:18:32
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46296
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Assuming the amp will drive them sufficiently speaker choice is a very personal matter. All I can say is that I have had excellent results with my fairly easy to drive Tannoy Definition D500's (91dB 6 Ohm nom.) as well as the slightly more difficult Thiel CS1.5 and CS2.4, along with a few bookshelf speakers. I would not go with Maggies with this amp. I've tried at a friend's house and it was disappointing. Those Maggies require more power.

Enjoy!




 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on January 24, 2017 at 11:23:54
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46296
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I normally love EL34s but in my Cronus Magnum setup driving the Thiel CS2.4 speakers I found the EL34s to be lacking. Lacking in power it seemed. The sound was a little dynamically challenged.

The KT90 were better but I jumped on buying a quad of KT120s and that's pretty much what I've been using over the years. I should try some KT88's or 6550 but I'm wondering if these will produce at least as much power as the KT90's. If they're in the EL34 range, they won't be sufficient for my speakers.

I'd be curious to know which KT88, 6550, and KT66 you use. I haven't even tried NOS signal tubes since buying my Cronus Magnum a few years ago.


 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on January 24, 2017 at 13:31:06
classfolkphile
Audiophile

Posts: 533
Location: Florida
Joined: December 17, 2002
 Abe,

I've tried Svetlana (not Winged "C") EL34s; Black Treasure 6CA7s; NOS RCA black plate, NOS Sylvania, and new Tung Sol 6L6GCs; Gold Lion KT66s; Gold Lion KT77s; Svetlana Winged "C" 6550s; NOS GE 6550s; Gold Lion KT88s; Penta KT88SCs; EH KT90s; and Tung Sol KT 120s.

I agree with your assessment of EL34s in the Cronus Magnum, in addition to the thoughts I posted earlier.

The 6550s and KT88s sound significantly more powerful and dynamic than the EL34s with the "88s" sounding about as powerful as the KT90s. Even the KT66s sound more dynamic than the "34s" though they may not be enough for your Thiels.

Edit: The EL34s and KT66s put out 55wpc, the KT88s, IIRC, put out 90wpc, the same as the KT90s.

The 6550s I tried are not really available anymore and no one has suggested any current production is up to those standards.

I preferred the Penta over the Gold Lion KT88s for their additional refinement. The Pentas aren't available from my preferred sources anymore however, and the Gold Lions are very good. Buying them croy'd would probably be a good idea: they were a bit tight sounding compared to the Pentas.

The KT88s (and 6550s and 6L6/KT66 family) are definitely more linear than the KT120s.

I haven't really liked any of the new Tung Sol power tubes in my amps. I've tried their 6550s (in Quicksilver Mono 100s), and their KT120s and 6L6GC STRs (in the Cronus). They all have had an overly emphasized lower end that was also very thick sounding. To be fair, I didn't hear that in Mark O'Brien's KT120 equipped Apollo mono-blocks (with Hera pre-amp, and Wilson Alexandrias (?)). So maybe it's amp dependent?

The Gold Lion KT66s are the most balanced power tube I've heard, are very resolving and dynamic, and have an immediacy and refinement that remind me of SETs.

The KT66s didn't sound powerful enough to drive my 87db (8 ohm nominal, 3.9 ohm minimum) speakers in my old house. Strangely, in my new home in a larger room (with much higher ceilings), they do. More power would still be nice for absolute effortlessness but I don't hear the sound as at all constricted.

IME, a big improvement in sound can also be had with NOS small signal tubes.

Best,
Rob

 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on January 24, 2017 at 22:37:19
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46296
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Thanks Rob,
That's a lot to think about! I'm making a printout of your post for when I get the urge to buy some tubes.



 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on January 25, 2017 at 09:28:52
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
 Agree with most of the above comments on tube rolling. I own the Stereo 90 which is a very similar amp to the Chronus.
The Penta Labs KT88SC are a great tube in the Rogues. They are now being produced as the Preferred Series KT88 available at thetubestore.com. (supposedly the exact same tube).
Gold Lion KT66 (and GEC if you can find them) rock in the Rogues! 6L6gc great in the Rogue! EL34 not so great. Stock Tung Sol KT120 suck in the Rogues!(IMO).
Input 12ax7s have big affect on the sound. RCA blackplate 12ax7, Raytheon black plate 12ax7, Siemens ECC83, Matshushita 12ax7 and (original) Tung Sol 12ax7 are best, also GE, Raytheon or Sylvania 5751 blackplates.
Cant comment on drivers (12au7) my Stereo 90 uses 6SN7 drivers.
Enjoy the Roll!

 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on January 25, 2017 at 12:42:15
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46296
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Thanks for posting your comments on various tubes for Rogue. I'm keeping a printout handy.

BTW, I noticed in your profile that you use Kimber 8TC speaker cables. Have you tried anything else and compared directly against the 8TC? I have found the 8TC to be consistently bass shy compared to many other speaker cables. And this was on a few amps, not just my Rogue. Just a thought.



 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on January 25, 2017 at 16:42:57
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
 Hi Abe.
I have tried a dealer loan of some Nordost flat cable once and found that thin compared to the Kimber. That was several years ago when I was running Totem Hawks with the Rogues. Also tried anti cables and sent them back, preferring the Kimber.
That said I have thought about a cable upgrade for some time. What type of wire do you use in your various systems?

 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on January 25, 2017 at 17:32:01
classfolkphile
Audiophile

Posts: 533
Location: Florida
Joined: December 17, 2002
 I had Kimber 12TC: they were pretty good as long as they had gold plated or copper connectors: otherwise too bright. You might want to try Triode Wire Labs speaker cables: less expensive than the 12TC and much better: more resolving with much better tonal accuracy. (Not as good as my Kaplan Cables but less than half the price of those.)

 

RE: I am not surprized with that, either, posted on January 25, 2017 at 21:38:10
Stale
Audiophile

Posts: 3263
Location: So. California
Joined: August 3, 2001
 Hard to describe by words. Both are generally neutral sounding just that CJ more body and right timbre while not sounding warm.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum... , posted on January 26, 2017 at 09:42:02
classfolkphile
Audiophile

Posts: 533
Location: Florida
Joined: December 17, 2002
 You're welcome.

Another thought: like your Thiels my speakers are also time aligned and phase coherent. Eliminating the bypass caps (by cutting one wire between them and the coupling caps) gave a much more coherent presentation (you can obviously always re-solder the one wire if you don't like the result).

I found the bypass caps smear the time alignment causing the treble to be way too far forward relative to the mid-range and bass. I didn't really notice any loss of frequency extension. But in any case, I then had Rogue remove the cheap bypass and stock coupling caps and insert Mundorf Evo Silver/Gold/Oil (the only ones that would just fit) for more resolution, extension and refinement. For me it was well worth the $400 cost.

 

RE:SPACE HEATER, posted on February 4, 2017 at 21:58:04
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008



Space heaters are not exclusive to you tube guys!
Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

Some of the smaller Maggies..., posted on February 10, 2017 at 08:54:56
GregK
Audiophile

Posts: 465
Location: NE Ohio
Joined: September 30, 1999
 ...may suit the bill. Personally, I'm running a pair of MGMC1 wall-mount Maggies (similar to the MMGs) with my Cronus Magnum and it has no problem at all driving them and making them sing. My choice of the Cronus was, in large part, driven by its power capacity and ability to play through 4 ohm loads. I believe there are (at least) a couple of inmates driving Maggies with their Cronus Magnums.

I got my Cronus Magnum a few months ago and couldn't be happier.

Happy listening!

 

RE: Update . . . "Double Plus 1!", posted on February 10, 2017 at 16:10:49
johnvb
Audiophile

Posts: 495
Joined: October 26, 2011
 The Rogues are said to sound great wth the KEF LS50s. I have a pair, and the Atlas is on the short list come upgrade time.

 

RE: Update . . . "Double Plus 1!", posted on February 17, 2017 at 14:33:14
VTL Bob
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: February 13, 2005
 I purchased one of these after reading this thread a few weeks ago, I cleared the deck of my separates and wanted to simplify my life. I've only had it a few days so far but I have to say I'm impressed, I have it hooked up to a pair of Aerial 10T's. I did change the internal jumpers to the 4ohm taps before hooking it up as the Aerials are pretty much a 4ohm speaker, it's running them effortlessly. Thanks JoshT for putting this on my radar, I was looking a spending at lot more money than this and couldn't be happier.

 

RE: Congratulations! I still love my Cronus Magnum..., posted on May 14, 2017 at 07:27:53
DrN
Audiophile

Posts: 366
Joined: January 31, 2014
 p

 

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