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845 tube amps

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Posted on July 25, 2016 at 10:15:06
jbomber
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: Northern CA
Joined: July 25, 2016
 Hey There,

Was searching the forums and couldn't find any info, so I thought I'd ask. I currently run a pair of open baffle speakers with a Canary 301MkII amp (300B, push/pull). I'm considering swapping the amp out for an amp that runs with 845 tubes. I've read that the 845s produce amazing midrange, but will I gain/lose bass? Will the top end get rolled off? Mind you, I love the Canary, I just have the sickness that wants to try new gear. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

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RE: 845 tube amps, posted on July 25, 2016 at 11:11:50
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4393
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Try in DIY/Tubes section - there is lots of info - also in SET...
Happy Listening

 

The one amp I heard with 845's had...., posted on July 25, 2016 at 11:30:26
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4593
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
 Defined bass. The mids were nice. Also there is a guy that posted his Yaquin 845' mono block amps on YouTube. He is playing Rock and to do it well.

I was going to build some Mono block amps using the 845 tubes but just couldn't get past using 1kv power supply and if something went wrong and then there are other things to consider too safety wise. I still may revisted that DIY project down the road since I have all the parts except the output transformers but with 600-700 power supply instead of 1kv. That's just me.

I don't know how well they will do OB type of speakers in SET mode. Like the other post says, check out the Tube DIY forum. I wish I had more info for you to help you out with your question.

 

RE: 845 tube amps, posted on July 25, 2016 at 16:34:26
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008



There are some very good 845 amps coming from China. I have a "Mr. Liang" amp that uses 845's driven by 300Bs. Excellent sound. Amazing midrange but the bass is also very good. Treble is open and sweet.

Mr. Liang is one of the principals behind Yaqin, which makes some well regarded tube gear.

Here is an article which I can't read but which has a number of good photos of this amplifier. FYI there are several versions of this amp.

http://www.wjaudio.com/bbs/view.php?idnum=39&page=9&idx=7&part=4&PHPSESSID=eba60fd4fd3d4cf81ae87abfb81a5b2b
Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

845 tube amps, posted on July 25, 2016 at 17:34:01
Interstage Tranny
Audiophile

Posts: 3063
Location: Eastern
Joined: October 4, 2006
 This is not as easy as saying what freq bands will be affected which ways. Sorry to tell you this. The main reason is because there have been so many variations of 300Bs through the past few decades. The original WE 300B had a unique sonic signature. Always described with amazing bass, powerful sound, great mids, but slightly hot treble, the real 300B has morphed into many variants. Not only that factor, system matching is critical.

Output trannies are part of the "system;" this is a very important factor. My Dared VP-845 output tranny only has 4 or 8 Ohm speaker taps on their huge, excellent SE opts. Put a 16 Ohm open baffle driver on this amp and you will not be happy. Put an efficient 4 Ohm full range on the 4 ohm tap and the sound should be amazing. Likewise an 8 ohmer. Consider that if you were used to an 8 watt 300B SE amp, SE 845 amps give up to 22 watt ratings. Damping factor with open baffle drivers is a concern, with respect to bass control. How do you describe the bass with your current amp ?

Also consider the heat of an 845; they make nice cold weather hand warmers. Next, the electric power bill may need concern as 845s are not efficient and require lots of drive in earlier stages. Most important though, is the results are literally unpredictable. My amp may sound great with your speaker. While the Dared is not my favorite amp with my 16 ohm speakers, I do use other PP amps (that do not have 16 ohm outputs) which I do favor. I can still recommend the latest versions of the Dared since they still use those opt trannies. Whether you will prefer the 845 bass or mids is purely up to the forces of equipment synergy...

 

RE: 845 tube amps, posted on July 26, 2016 at 05:07:16
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008
 Yah what he says is right. You gotta have the "right" speaker to give you that certain sound you're looking for with ANY tube amp, and more so for low- or no-feedback designs, and ESPECIALLY for low or low-ish power SE tube amps.

There's an Ohms Law interaction between the amp's output transformer secondary impedance and the speaker's impedance that gives some boost here and there to the overall response of your amp / speaker combination. With some amps this variance in frequency response will be a half dB here and there, with other amps it may be as much as 3 dB. Depends on the amp and on the speaker.

Typically, tube amp output stages have much higher source impedance than solid-state amps, again more so for low- or no-feedback amps. Typically this impacts bass response and bass 'quality.' This can have a positive or negative effect on sound quality, again this depends on the speaker. (And to some degree on your listening preferences and sonic taste.)

So you can't really make a blanket statement that a certain amp sounds great- you have to say that on some speakers this particular amp can sound really great.

For example, on my Quad ESL-57's the Mr. Liang 845 SET did not sound very good- highs were rolled off and bass was 'flabby.' Midrange was nothing special. But on a pair of ~96 dB efficient Red Rose Music Classic Ribbon speakers (3-way, vented) the Liang amp sounded extremely musical. Ditto on a pair of small 2-way monitors with SEAS excel drivers (although the 845 was not able to play as loud as I might have liked these little speakers to play on certain music.)

I would expect the SET type amps to sound really nice on certain 2- and 3-way box speakers, especially vented designs that offered high-ish efficiency and moderate current demands, and also on some horn-based speakers. Open baffle woofers, sealed-box designs, electrostats and Magneplanars - not so much.

You can't tell from specs or curves that a given speaker will sound good on a low- or moderate powered SET amp, but you can look at the impedance curves and the efficiency rating of a speaker and identify good candidates for trying out with SET amps. If the impedance doesn't dip too low, if it doesn't have a combination of low-ish impedance and high phase angle, and has at least 94 dB efficiency, I think it would be safe to say that such a speaker would be worth auditioning on a SET amp. Unfortunately, this info isn't always easy to come by, and taking a given speaker / amp combo for a "test drive" isn't usually possible unless you have a dealer that will help you out in this regard.

It is possible to find a great speaker / amp combo, but it is not all that easy.

Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

Triode TRV-845se, posted on July 27, 2016 at 18:10:01
Ross
Audiophile

Posts: 1814
Joined: January 24, 2000
 Triode Corporation TRV-845se is an integrated SET amp. It can be run as a basic amp.

First time I heard the amp, I was stopped in my tracks. Wonderfully liquid midrange, full bass and extended treble. Amp was driving horns. I heard the amp at 2 successive Axpona shows; Jacksonville and Atlanta. Amp is still available, and has a list price of about $6500 US, but can be found used at much lower cost. Designed in Japan, but made in China.

 

RE: 845 tube amps, posted on July 31, 2016 at 11:56:29
saki70
Audiophile

Posts: 274
Joined: February 2, 2006
 This "system" approach is why we "need" brick & mortar stores .
Remember that the next time that you try to save a few bucks on the net .

 

RE: 845 tube amps, posted on July 31, 2016 at 13:15:45
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 Both New Audio Frontiers and Line Magnetic amps sound good.

 

RE: 845 tube amps, posted on August 6, 2016 at 19:33:03
KeithR
Audiophile

Posts: 299
Joined: February 22, 2001
 I've owned several and the Audion Black Shadows are probably the best I've heard. Mastersound makes some excellent units and I've heard NAF makes a great amp.

The Tri and LM Audio are more vintage sounding units and the Vivas have more of a golden, creamy sound to them, so depends what you're looking for.

 

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