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Replace separates with integrated?

128.138.64.246
Posted on May 3, 2016 at 09:34:20
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 Or should I get new separates? Or stay put?

My current system...

Emotiva XPA-1 Mono Blocks
Emotiva XSP-1 Preamp
PBN EPS2 speakers
VPI Classic 1 Turntable w/Ortofon 2M Bronze cartridge
OPPO BDP 105 Disc Player and streamer
Senheisser HD 650 Headphones
Anticable phono cable
Generic balanced cables between disc player, preamp and amp. Probably Monoprice.

So I am toying with moving to an integrated amp to simplify things and possibly soften the sound. I find it a bit bright even though my wife likes the sound just fine. I should add she listens as much as I do and has been involved for years selecting equipment.

My speakers are relatively efficient with a rated sensitivity 92db. I have found they like a lot of power to sound their best.

I'd like to hear some suggestions for integrated amps. Perhaps something like the Rouge Audio Pharaoh or the BAT VK-300x SE? Or I can open myself up and ask for other thoughts on my system.

I am in the Denver area so I at least have some options for going and listening to equipment.

I'd like to stay under $5K new or used.

 

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RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 09:48:32
audioaddictNY
Audiophile

Posts: 51
Location: 10543
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Ayre AX-7, it is an amazing integrated, made in Boulder not overseas.
Powers my Vandersteen 2C'S with ease at 60 Watts, it should be great on your 92 db speakers.
Zero-feedback design, I gave up separates for this integrated.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 09:50:36
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 sounds like you want quality sound. I'd take the move into tubes. Check out Rogue they make some very nice stuff at a reasonable price.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 10:17:51
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15519
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 The greater Denver area has some really excellent dealers/retailers.
Get out there and listen, listen, listen.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 10:20:19
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 Thanks. I'd have to give it a listen in my system. I did try a Cambridge Audio Integrated that had more power than the Ayre and was very disappointed.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 10:23:56
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 What do you think of the Rouge I suggested. It gets good reviews but I'm unsure of the hybrid design with Class D.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 10:30:14
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 Being fairly new to the area I'm still learning the used vinyl shops and have not had a chance to explore equipment dealers. Do you have some suggestions?

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 12:19:38
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 It would be helpful if the mentioned which Cambridge model and what specifically disappointed you about its sonics. (In a magazine interview about two years ago--I cannot recall which publication--a Cambridge spokesman stated their integrated amplifiers below their best model are voiced to be tipped up in the treble.) Knowing which Cambridge model you found unsatisfactory might give us a better idea what kind of sound you're seeking.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 12:44:49
audioaddictNY
Audiophile

Posts: 51
Location: 10543
Joined: March 21, 2011
 If your speakers are as efficient as you say they should not need high power.
Typically in integrateds the preamp section is not up to par, thus the reason for separates.
You just have to find the right design, parts, and build quality to give you better sound.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 13:47:10
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 It was an Azur 840A. I believe it was their top of the line integrated at the time. It clearly lacked the low end punch and tightness the speakers show now. From what I remember it was also lacked clear definition between instruments and not a great sound-stage. Muddied might be a good word for it, especially at higher volumes. It never seemed to play with the ease the current set up does. This was 4 or so years ago.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 13:50:13
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 You are probably right, the Cambridge might not have been a good match. I know PBN will often pair these speakers with much lower power tube amps. Maybe I am giving too much credit to the power difference. I will say we to tend to listen to some loud music.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 14:05:37
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
I don't know if you would benefit much going to an integrated amp. I would look into a tube preamp and stick with your SS monoblocks. You will get the benefit of tube smooth sound without having to deal with expensive power tubes. Please let us know what you decided we like to live vicariously through other peoples systems here.....

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 14:45:32
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 I recently replaced my separates with a Raven Audio integrated.

It's the best sounding amp I've ever owned, by a pretty wide margin.

Would work great with your speakers. Give Dave at Raven a call and see what he says.




'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 14:56:20
jtpzenith
Audiophile

Posts: 607
Joined: November 4, 2002
 First, pin down where the brightness is coming from. If it is the amps then head straight for a home audition of a Hegel H-360 ASAP.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 17:10:46
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 The discontinued Cambridge 840A was definitely warm sonically (I owned one, too). Apparently your ears are happiest with neutral to maybe slightly warm.

All the Parasound units I've auditioned over the years were very neutral, so possibly their Halo Integrated ($2,495) would work well for you. Online magazine reviews are plentiful.

Another option would be the McIntosh MA5200 ($4,500). My McIntosh MA6500 integrated amp would best be described as neutral to a bit warm, very smooth, solid bass, highly detailed, open and clear, with a huge soundstage, nonfatiguing, and extremely quiet. I prefer tubes and the McIntosh was the only solid-state unit I auditioned at the time (2002) that made my ears smile. Unlike most McIntosh units, though, the MA5200 does not have bass and treble controls. There are several magazine reviews of the MA5200 available online.

Finally, consider AudioSoul's excellent idea to retain your power amps and combine them with a tube preamp. Maybe Rogue's new RP-1 ($1,695)?

Below is a link to the McIntosh MA5200, which can now be ordered from the good folks at Crutchfield.

----------------
EDIT: One more item came to mind. Based on my positive experience with the McIntosh MA6500 (which I still use), I purchased an MA6300 for a different room. The MA6300 was very "un-McIntosh," with an overly bright upper midrange and treble that was headache-inducing. It went back to the dealer who said it was not defective; I later read others online who described the same bright sonics. Hopefully the MA5200 has the usual McIntosh sound as described earlier.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 17:19:07
bigshow
Audiophile

Posts: 472
Location: WI
Joined: December 3, 2012
 Audio Research VSi60. From one mountain biker to another. You will be amazed at how the tubes make music more musical.
bigshow

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 20:13:03
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 Thanks for all the advice. I hadn't thought about McIntosh since there is so much love/hate for the brand. I have a dealer close to me. I'll give it a try.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 20:14:31
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 I hadn't thought of this path. Now I can spend more time listening :)

 

RE: First replace the source, it's always the source, posted on May 4, 2016 at 12:46:33
ydavid
Audiophile

Posts: 194
Joined: December 14, 2005
 I have been down the route of taming brightness, it is fraught with pitfalls. From my experience, changing to a "warmer" integrated may not get you the sound you want, you could end up with a sound that is too soft and woolly. The first thing to do is change the source. With brightness, usually the culprit is a digital source. With analog it's easier to fix because you can always install a warm cartridge. Then, choose your integrated. Good luck.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 4, 2016 at 13:06:22
RSF
Audiophile

Posts: 197
Location: Philadelphia
Joined: May 14, 2010
Contributor
  Since: March 6, 2011
 You may want to consider the Marantz Reference integrated amps. They are a little on the warmish side. I have the PM11S3 and I'm using it with an Ortofon 2M Black MM cartridge. It's a very nice sounding combo. 100 watts/channel and it doubles down to 200/channel into 4 ohms. I think it would be a very nice match for your speakers and cartridge. If you are patient you can find one AudioGon for under $3000.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 4, 2016 at 21:27:16
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001

I would look into a second hand Line Magnetic 219IA which I own. The reason it's nice aside from the sound quality and truly excellent build construction is that it has the direct in option should you change your mind later and want to get a preamp. And because it's dual mono - it's about as close as you can get to monoblocks without it being monoblocks.

The downside it that it weighs 121lbs. There is the less expensive in your price range new 518IA but I don't like it as much though it is good. But go big or go home right.

$7500 is the new list price so you should get it for below $5k second hand (if anyone parts with them).

It is 24 watts per channel and 92dB will be a breeze for it provided the min impedance of your speakers doesn't drop below 3ohms and even then it will still drive them fine - has no problems at all with ATC speakers which are notoriously difficult.

I reviewed it in the link below and had it now for about 3 years. It's difficult not to love the looks/build and sound of this thing.

And the fact that it can be a power amp, has remote etc makes it a nice piece.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 4, 2016 at 23:01:57
Disbeliever
Audiophile

Posts: 1877
Joined: June 1, 2012
 I would avoid any Cambridge Audio product, same goes for Class D & antique tubes. A first class integrated amp is the Naim Supernait 2

 

RE: First replace the source, it's always the source, posted on May 5, 2016 at 07:25:40
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 I have not thought it might be the digital source. I know the OPPO is known for playing what is on the CD and being very neutral.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 5, 2016 at 07:27:43
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 That is quite the integrated amp! Might be worth the wait for a used one.

Can I capture to heat to share with my neighbors :)

 

I did. Glad about it too., posted on May 5, 2016 at 09:25:28
ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 2994
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002
 There's a plethora of amps to choose from. Given how you live not too far from some useful dealers you have the option at your disposal which plenty would love to have but don't. You can take your speakers along to a dealer and compare amps. Or if moving your speakers isn't convenient, a good dealer will let you take (barrow) an amp or two home with a swipe of your CC (just in case).
This is by far the best way to do it. Getting the right amp/speaker partnership can work wonders for any system. Your Emotiva amps have plenty of grunt, but there are lots of different presentations to be heard with other offerings.

Tube integrateds are a good place to start. They can really add texture to the instruments, and get them to separate in a way conventional transistor amplifiers can only dream of.
For solid state; Naim, Sugden and Leema Acoustics if you want to get deeper into the music than you are used to.
Unless your room is huge, if your speakers are a 92 db efficiency, they shouldn't need much power, but they probably are a lot more comfortable with an amp which can handle a 4 Ohm load comfortably. Most modern speakers have a 4 Ohm driver on board, even if the manufacturer is claiming the mean load is 6-8 Ohms.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 5, 2016 at 09:28:16
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 "I would avoid any Cambridge Audio product, same goes for Class D & antique tubes."

Could you be a bit more specific why?

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 5, 2016 at 09:49:53
Disbeliever
Audiophile

Posts: 1877
Joined: June 1, 2012
 Cambridge Audio every item I have bought, has failed and had to be returned for a refund. even from the original Co. 40 years ago The amp/receiver designs IMO are very poor and inadequate despite any review. I can not listen to Class D, I have to turn it off. B& W who distribute Rotel say their Class D amps are not recommended for use with higher end range of B & W speakers. As for tubes they can be too troublesome, too hot, not suitable for mch. setup and despite what tube fanatics say, I find a good Class AB amplifier gives the best trouble free natural SQ.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 5, 2016 at 11:07:17
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 I can thus understand your dislike for Cambridge. You were incredibly lucky that all broke down during the return period. I had better experiences than did you, having purchased a Cambridge integrated amp and a phono preamp. Cambridge has undergone a great deal of growth and success in recent years, so I am curious what was your most recent Cambridge product that failed.

I have no opinion on Class-D power amps, having zero experience with them. I can agree that tubes, of course, require maintenance, having owned tube components since the early 1980s. But I have yet to find solid-state units at any price that sound as musically natural or make my ears as happy as do tubes.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 5, 2016 at 12:21:06
Disbeliever
Audiophile

Posts: 1877
Joined: June 1, 2012
 I can not remember the Cambridge model no. but I do remember there was a very strange method of separating the pre from the power section which made it virtually useless as when wanting surround sound I use the pre-out from my Sony receiver into a stereo power amp to feed front speakers. As for tubes I have no interest in them, the Naim Supernait 2 sounds better to me than any tube amp I have auditioned.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 5, 2016 at 12:59:29
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 1356
Location: New England
Joined: June 22, 2008
 I had a Rogue Cronus Magnum tube integrated and after 1 1/2 years, sold it and bought a Parasound Halo Integrated amp. It has an excellent phono stage with both mc and mm inputs. I like that it has bass and treble controls and it is very quiet and musical, and a better match with my Golden Ear Triton Two speakers. I am using a Sony HAPZ1ES music server and a Magnum Dynalab tuner. I am very happy with the sound and I listen to this system much more than my more expensive rig in another room. The music just seems so effortless and just flows so naturally.


"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."


 

I would not..., posted on May 5, 2016 at 16:33:30
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Regardless of the fact that finding the right combination of preamps and amps and phono premps and everything else you may want IS A ROYAL PAIN IN THE ASS... the result of finding the right combo of preamp/amp/speaker is magical.

In 30 years of messing around with audio, I hve never had as much fun listening as when I was listening to the right combo.

That could be audiophoolery but it is my experience. Especially with amps. A good amplifier is like a great dog that doesn't die for 100 years.

 

Lose the Emotiva.., posted on May 5, 2016 at 21:55:46
bare
Audiophile

Posts: 1879
Joined: April 14, 2009
 then Audition a Firstwatt amp... well Within your budget and the sounds are Very Good by "anybody's" yardstick.
These are Keeper amps

 

RE: I would not..., posted on May 6, 2016 at 00:03:17
Disbeliever
Audiophile

Posts: 1877
Joined: June 1, 2012
 You are right, I have been messing around with audio for the past 50 years, my main stereo Class AB amp I have owned for 23 years still outperforms all others I have auditioned that includes the Devialet Premier - D and all antique tube amps.

 

I moved back to an integrated after decades of separates..., posted on May 6, 2016 at 20:15:34
Justlisten2
Audiophile

Posts: 1266
Location: SE PA
Joined: March 8, 2001
 ....and I can't see myself going back to separates again.
Simpler is better, for me anyway. There are so many good integrated amps out there these days to choose from too.

Sonically, I think you would have to spend at least twice the price of the integrated amp that you are considering to even consider separates.

 

I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 7, 2016 at 09:08:36
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46291
Location: USA
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I've owned several separates over the years and few integrated amps. We moved to a new home a couple years ago and I lost my man cave basement listening room. I had a lot of space for equipment.

I am now in my home office listening room and went through a few solid-state integrated amp trials until discovering the Ayre AX-7e. I also have the Rogue Cronus Magnum tube integrated which I still love. I've been a tube guy for years but I finally found a worthy solid-state integrated in the Ayre AX-7e so that's what I run most of the time now. I've seen them used on Audiogon in the $2000 range. There's also a shop called The Music Room in Broomfield, CO and they have a selection of used integrated amps.

Good luck!

The somewhat compact Ayre AX-7e Integrated Amp to the far right
My floor stander speakers are the Tannoy Definition D500 - 6 Ohm nom. 91dB sens.



 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 8, 2016 at 11:12:39
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
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 Does it have a phono preamp in it?

 

you want an integrated with linestage and phono preamps built in, posted on May 8, 2016 at 11:14:41
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
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 Also, doe you have the same problem with both your digital and analog sources?

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 8, 2016 at 11:29:01
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 Thanks for the suggestions. I spent some time listening to the Rogue yesterday and really liked it. Might be one for a home audition.

As for the Ayre. I like what I have read, but I have not had good experiences with the sound of Class D amps in any of the systems, including my own, that I have heard.

 

RE: you want an integrated with linestage and phono preamps built in, posted on May 8, 2016 at 11:31:45
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 I would prefer a built in phono preamp.

The issue is much more pronounced with a digital source.

 

Consider that tube power goes farther, posted on May 8, 2016 at 18:47:34
Terry P
 One thing I discovered when I moved from a good SS integrated (Plinius 9200) to a tube integrated (Cary SLI-80 Sig.) was that those who said you don't need as much tube power as when using SS to obtain similar volumes were telling the truth!

I haven't done a direct comparison with a SPL meter but the Plinius had 200 wpc and the Cary is 40 wpc in triode mode (which I use most of the time) and the Cary volume control is usually in the 8 o'clock to 10 o'clock position depending on source. The Plinius volume would be 10 o'clock to 10:30 o'clock for the same source material. My speakers' efficiency is 90 db.

Something to consider.

 

RE: you want an integrated with linestage and phono preamps built in, posted on May 8, 2016 at 22:51:51
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 You have a digital source, i thought, and a turn table. All integrateds have a digital (linestage) preamp section, but not always a phono premamp. However, many have a preamp input for an exteranl phono preamp.

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 10, 2016 at 17:51:43
AbeCollins
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I've had limited success with Class D amps myself. The Ayre AX-7e is not a Class D amp. It is a solid-state amp but traditional Class AB design.


 

RE: Consider that tube power goes farther, posted on May 10, 2016 at 17:56:56
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46291
Location: USA
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Volume knob position is not an indication of how one amp may be producing more or less power than another. The gain of the preamp section and amp section for each will vary as well as where the volume knob ends up for a certain SPL in your system.

That being said, I'm real curious to know how your Cary SLP-80 sounds compared to the Plinius 9200. I'd love to try the SLP-80 someday as I've owned a few excellent Cary amps over the years. I'd like to try a Plinius amp too as I have never heard one.

My all time favorite 'affordable' tube amp was the AES/Cary SixPac monoblocks, each with 6 EL34 tubes in triode mode. These are wonderful sounding with EL34 magic. They rarely ever show up used anymore on Audiogon but were quite popular about a decade ago.



 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 11, 2016 at 00:35:52
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Has anyone suggested the Parasound HALO integrated for 1/2 your 'max'?

I you like your XSP preamp? The A21 or A23 will fill the bill, also from the HALO line.

Is your XSP a Gen1 or Gen2? They made LOTS of changes.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 11, 2016 at 07:49:49
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 The Parasound was suggested. I hope to hear it in the near future.

My XSP is Gen 1.

My needs are actually much more simple than all the bells and whistles the XSP and HALO have.

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 11, 2016 at 07:51:59
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 As soon as I sent the reply to you I remembered your integrated was not Class D. Too many products swimming in my head :)

I am going to hear the PimaLuna on Saturday.

 

RE: Consider that tube power goes farther, posted on May 11, 2016 at 13:38:18
Terry P
 Hi Abe,
Similar but different. The Plinius 9200 is a fine SS amp that doesn't sound so SS that a tube guy would dislike it. It is always at it's best when left "on" all the time, not in the "standby" mode. I learned that from old Harry Pearson articles about Plinius gear, tried it, and it's very true. It would still need about an hour at volume levels to sound it's best and really sing.

Warm-Up: The Cary is much better than the Plinius in the first hour and improves considerably after about 45 minutes but not as much as the 9200 did.

Audiophile stuff: The Plinius bested the Cary in dynamics and detail although I'm sure the Cary can reach closer in those areas with the right tubes -- it is very responsive to tube rolling. The Plinius produced a nice wide soundstage, 'maybe' even a little better than the Cary, but the Cary destroys it in soundstage depth. Imaging winner goes to the Cary.

Tonal accuracy: I'm not a musician so in my opinion, my opinion doesn't really count in this area. They both seem fine with the Cary obviously dependent on the tubes used.

I listen mostly to jazz these days so the Cary in triode mode really does it for me. It's even fairly good in triode when I listen to Hendrix or The Heavy, but I need to use ultralinear mode (80 wpc) to really get the leading edges and dynamics of (especially) electric guitars to sound right.

I don't listen to classical except for an occasional spin of The Planets, which is fine in ultralinear mode.

I sure wish I could have tried the AES SixPacs with a Cary SLP-05. It's a bummer that Cary no longer makes the SixPacs! I need to try the SLI-80 with EL34 tubes.

There's just something about tubes, they just sound right, although the 9200 never sounded "not right".

Terry

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 11, 2016 at 17:38:57
dirtyvinyl




I've been following this thread to see what models get suggested.. Since its subjective in the end and you will be going for a listen, here's my $0.02.

I posted this on a similar thread a few weeks back. The cool thing about the PL is you can try most of the popular power tubes including the KT150. There is a phono option(SS board)
but IMO, it's maybe equivalent to a $3-400 budget outboard box. That may be great if that's all your looking for, but this is a 4K amp.Pairing it with a decent 2k+ phono amp(tubed recommended)does make sense and your ears will hear it. I too, have a VPI Classic. I use a tubed phono.

The headphone circuit is supposedly excellent, but I dont use cans.

Reviews are all positive by both mags and users. An interesting observation on the Upscale Audio website-under the used gear section is a number of Rogue Cronus amps traded for the PL.

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 12, 2016 at 10:05:16
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 Thanks for your thoughts. I look forward to hearing the PrimaLuna this weekend.

What outboard phono do you use?

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 12, 2016 at 12:46:08
dirtyvinyl



A few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to audition the Manley Chinook. I use a now discontinued Fosgate V.2 which is under the amp in pic.

The Manley seems to be a popular unit right now@2.5K retail.
Both are tubed units, but have a different circuit layout. The Foz is entirely tubed including a tube rectifier. The Manley is S.S. rectification and its first stage is JFET.
With that in mind, the Manley is a VERY quiet unit, while the Foz does have minor hiss at R&R volume levels(12:00 o'clock) between tracks and quiet passages.

If I didn't have the Foz to compare, I would be quite satisfied with the Chinook.
A panel of non audio geeks(but music fans) along with the S.O. voted the Foz as more realistic sounding. I believe it's that transistor stage that makes its presentation a little different. It does edge out the Foz a tiny bit with micro detail, but for vocals and acoustic instruments, the Foz KILLS the Chinook. This is subjective, so naturally my opinion is just that.

The comparison was pretty equal with both units tubed with NOS glass and plumbed with decent cable(Nordost)

Presently, the Foz is undergoing minor surgery on the distributors bench. I'm listening to that
Cambridge CD deck. It's a tweaked Mapleshade unit and actually sounds decent.
Still no comparison when I drop the needle of my AT ART9 on a record.
While on the subject of carts, consider a LOMC when it's time to replace that Orto.

 

RE: Replace separates with integrated?, posted on May 13, 2016 at 07:24:54
kenzo
Audiophile

Posts: 955
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 27, 2003
 Emotiva bells and whistles?

Yep, in my experience with Emotiva preamp, unfortunately that is all it has going for it.

I listened to one for a few weeks and then gave it away. (usp-1?)

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 15, 2016 at 08:15:31
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46291
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 If you enjoy vacuum tube phono preamps I can highly recommend the $2k MSRP Rogue Ares. I'm not active with vinyl right now since moving into a smallish home office setup but I've owned the following phono preamps over the years and the Rogue is my favorite:

- Aesthetix Rhea
- Rogue Ares
- Graham Slee Era Gold V MM & Elevator EXP head amp
- Cambridge 640p
- Musical Fidelity V-LPS
- PS Audio GCPH
- Hagerman Cornet II Silver Edition (factory built)
- EAR 834P

- And the Bob's Devices CineMag 3440 and 1131 SUTs.

- (Dynavector 17D3, Benz Micro Glider SL, Denon DL-103R, Dynavector DV-20XH)

I wonder if mtbikeNH has auditioned the PrimaLuna. I wouldn't mind trying the DiaLogue Premium HP integrated someday.


 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 16, 2016 at 11:50:49
mtbikeNH
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City
Joined: November 11, 2009
 Abe,

My wife and I spent several hours on Saturday auditioning the PrimaLuna. I have to say I was very impressed. The source was all CD and the speakers were Focal.

I can only describe the experience as everything about the music just sounded right. My wife said everything was "pretty". I can't see ever getting tired of listening with this integrated. I should add I have one on order.

If you're ever in my neck of the woods you are welcome to come by for a listen once it is broken in.

Lastly I will say the dealer experience I had was one of the most informative and relaxing listening demos I have ever had the pleasure of sitting through. if mentioning the dealer is appropriate I will do that in another email.

I thought this would be a much longer journey. I only heard about 5 or 6 different integrated amps before settling on the PrimaLuna.

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 16, 2016 at 12:50:09
dirtyvinyl
 I've heard that Rogue Ares, and it is a nice piece for the money. Didn't hear it like the Manely -side by side in my system, but did like what I heard.

You certainly have heard your share of good phone amps.

My unit is being repaired with an uncertain completion date, so I broke down and purchased a Schiit Mani to keep the table spinning.

 

RE: I went from separates to integrated a couple years ago..., posted on May 16, 2016 at 13:00:18
dirtyvinyl
 You'll be impressed again when you hook the table up with a decent phono amp.

Also, playing with a few different power tubes if curiosity gets to you. The only tube I haven't tried is the KT150. 8@$100 each is a luxury not on my list. It just may be in my head, but I do find the PL sensitive to a decent power cord over the supplied one. Also, I prefer to hear mine through a PS Audio power plant.

Happy listening

 

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