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Audible Illusions Modulus 2D

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Posted on April 19, 2016 at 16:58:54
johsti
Audiophile

Posts: 5
Location: Bay Area, CA
Joined: April 24, 2006
 Hello, I'm looking for some options to modify the volume controls on a AI M2D that I picked up not too long ago. I am enjoying the the preamp, but jut can't get used to the dual volume controls. I feel the need to get out my SPL meter and play pink noise to get the channels level matched before listening to music. There must be some other options such as installing a stepped attenuator for each channel or replacing with one stereo volume pot. I would love to have a remote control for volume, but I don't want to get too crazy, or ruin the sonics of this preamp by introducing noise with a motorized volume control.

Has anyone replaced the volume controls with a stepped attenuator or a single stereo pot? If so, what value did you use? Any other ideas?

 

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Dual level controls is better than volume and balance to me..., posted on April 19, 2016 at 17:40:11
Interstage Tranny
Audiophile

Posts: 3063
Location: Eastern
Joined: October 4, 2006
 I love stereo too. However, over time, channels are not always "constant" in level, with regard to many factors. Consider different vintage discs, speakers moved a bit from perfect toe-in setup, tube aging, cartridge/stylus changed a bit from a thicker or thinner disc, phono cart going out of balance, resistors aging and changing value, amp bias needing adjustment, oh so many possibilities. For me, slightly adjusting two level controls is just as easy as "tweaking" the balance control every now and then.

Now, if your needs are special for you, certainly you can either add a "stereo" gain control within your vintage preamp; or externally. There are many remote equipped setups now available. If you preamp has a Tape Out, your options are even greater. There are autoformer level controls with remotes, transformer level controls with remotes and simple passive or active remote setups. Personally, I think your vintage tube preamp might need some capacitor upgrading if you feel your "usual" level settings are not usual anymore. Also, research the remote setups as many do not adjust each channel separately...

 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on April 20, 2016 at 06:05:57
Larry I
Audiophile

Posts: 2229
Location: No. Va.
Joined: June 28, 2000
 I know there use to be a number of options for remotely controlled, relay switching of stepped ladder type of volume/balance control (e.g., ones sold by Welbourne that could be built into existing units if space is available). I have one in one of my linestages.

There is a company that I think is still around that offers light-dependent resistor attenuation that is again relay switched by remote control. A friend of mine built a passive linestage around such module and it sounded very good and offered enough steps to allow for fine volume control.

There is a somewhat expensive, but very good sounding option out there from a company called My Emia. They offer an attenuator that uses an autoformer to provide attenuation (by converting current to voltage instead of using resistors to waste signal as heat). I believe that the designer, Dave Slagle, also offers this autoformer volume/balance control as a module that could be built into a linestage rather than being a separate unit. You probably can contact him at My Emia:

http://www.myemia.com/Prod.html

 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on April 20, 2016 at 06:59:09
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 How much you wanna spend?

I have a $1000 option

charles

 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on April 20, 2016 at 08:58:46
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 3156
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2018
 Couldn't you just note the dB levels in relation to the marks on the faceplate for eachieving knob. If the marked locations are slightly different, then in reality this ends up giving you the most accurate levels. If you use stepped mono or locked all in one stereo pot, you won't have this luxury.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that replacing the original pots isn't going to guarantee linear balance. That's why many companies add a balance control.

The tubes also come into play for left to right balance. Do some measurements, then transpose the left right tubes. See if the marked levels change as well. If the do, you'll clearly see the need to have separate volume controls.

Hope all this makes sense?

Cheers!

Jonesy




"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on April 20, 2016 at 09:05:22
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4391
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 johsti-
If having dual pots is really a problem - change pre-amps-

Yes, you could get - say a Gold Point Stepped attenuator built to match the impedance of the pots in the 2D - you could even get a stereo stepped unit- But it probably won't fit in the chasis easily -

Or, as others have suggested - a passive unit on the tape outputs-
of a 'Pot-in-a-Box' between the 2D and your amp.

The dual pots is one of the strengths of the Modulus design - and has been used throughout its history - for better and worse...

I have a 3 - and built them for a while...
Happy Listening

 

Do you realize that having two volume controls is the best thing ever?, posted on April 20, 2016 at 14:45:07
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Take into consideration room imbalances if you were to move your system,or take into consideration that some CDs and LPs might be several DB down in one channel vs the other,or take into consideration that your amp or CD player,turntable,tuner,etc might have lost some output in one channel.Having separate volume pots allows you to compensate and equal things out but having a single volume pot takes away that advantage.You can buy better pots if you want but I would NOT use a single volume pot if I have a dual pot setup.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Dual level controls is better than volume and balance to me... , posted on April 20, 2016 at 14:50:57
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 UNQUESTIONABLY BETTER!
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Using conventional "wiper" pots I would agree, posted on April 20, 2016 at 18:55:49
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 in the modern world, however, you can find dual mono performance in terms of separation with gain and balance controls.

I find that 110 db performance with my current preamp to offer a "surfeit of adequacy" as Rolls Royce would aver.

 

RE: Do you realize that having two volume controls is the best thing ever?, posted on April 21, 2016 at 00:05:19
kavakidd
Audiophile

Posts: 20316
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: April 15, 2004
 agreed
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

 

RE: Do you realize that having two volume controls is the best thing ever?, posted on April 21, 2016 at 04:46:37
louie3
 Simple solution is to up-swappen for a 3-series Audible Illusions...them boys got two level controls and a main volume control. Best of both worlds, there.

 

I hear you, posted on April 21, 2016 at 07:04:24
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 I had a First Sound passive pre once with dual stepped volume controls.

Could never get the level just right there being not enough steps.

Drove me crazy to have to deal with two controls to adjust the volume.

Maybe, you can get little sticky dots and place at typical volume points.

I would never go back to that arrangement. I am not even a stickler with having a balance control for MAJORITY of listening, although I think that is a real drawback with many modern designs that leave out the balance control.

 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on April 21, 2016 at 09:08:42
Palustris
Audiophile

Posts: 2408
Location: Cape Cod
Joined: September 12, 2008
 How you deal with this depends upon your technical abilities, but it is easy to calibrate your two volume controls so that the voltages match when in the same position. You have calibration lines surrounding the knob. In theory, if the two knobs are both pointing to the same point on the dial the output should be exactly the same. Unfortunately, this is not usually the case because the knob can be installed on the shaft slightly differently. I have separate volume controls for each channel and I always calibrate the knobs so that the preamp has identical AC voltages when the knobs are in the same position.

You need an AC volt meter and a signal generator. Set the signal generator for one volt AC sine wave (or whatever voltage is appropriate for your gear). Loosen one of the knob set screws and turn the other knob so that it is in the position you approximately use for listening; read the AC voltage on the output of this channel. Now turn the other shaft with the loose knob and match the AC voltage. Turn the loose knob until the position matches the other knob exactly and tighten the set screw. Now the output from both channels will match when the knobs are in the same position.

 

RE: Do you realize that having two volume controls is the best thing ever?, posted on April 21, 2016 at 10:50:32
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4391
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Post M-3 - like M-3a/b
Happy Listening

 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on April 21, 2016 at 11:32:12
Inmate51
 I would say that separate volume controls for each channel on a consumer playback product is a bit geeky and unnecessarily cumbersome. (Now my phone's gonna ring. ;) )

Seriously, when recording, we NEED a level control for each input channel. But in a home playback system, it's over the top and annoying. It's akin to stepping through menus and choices on a car sound system or GPS - too much fiddling.

Some folks might be into it, though, to wit (from another poster):

"How you deal with this depends upon your technical abilities, but it is easy to calibrate your two volume controls so that the voltages match when in the same position. You have calibration lines surrounding the knob. In theory, if the two knobs are both pointing to the same point on the dial the output should be exactly the same. Unfortunately, this is not usually the case because the knob can be installed on the shaft slightly differently. I have separate volume controls for each channel and I always calibrate the knobs so that the preamp has identical AC voltages when the knobs are in the same position.

You need an AC volt meter and a signal generator. Set the signal generator for one volt AC sine wave (or whatever voltage is appropriate for your gear). Loosen one of the knob set screws and turn the other knob so that it is in the position you approximately use for listening; read the AC voltage on the output of this channel. Now turn the other shaft with the loose knob and match the AC voltage. Turn the loose knob until the position matches the other knob exactly and tighten the set screw. Now the output from both channels will match when the knobs are in the same position."

Seriously?! For a home stereo system?!

I "get it" if you've got a phono cart or other source which is out of balance. But that can be addressed by trim pots which you set ONCE. The occasional imbalance of a particular recording, or speaker placement, is why "balance" controls were invented.

:)

 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on April 21, 2016 at 13:52:40
Palustris
Audiophile

Posts: 2408
Location: Cape Cod
Joined: September 12, 2008
 "Seriously?! For a home stereo system?!"

For MY home stereo: yes.

 

Whatever Floats Your Boat, posted on April 21, 2016 at 14:33:45
Inmate51
 But you will not find separate L and R volume controls on any of my playback components.

It would totally suck to try to get both channels just right every time I put on another record.

:)

 

RE: Dual level controls is better than volume and balance to me... , posted on April 21, 2016 at 15:17:06
johsti
Audiophile

Posts: 5
Location: Bay Area, CA
Joined: April 24, 2006
 For those of you that embrace dual volume controls, how do you make sure each channel is level matched? I can get OCD just trying to set up a cartridge, so I can't imagine how bad it would get trying to raise or lower the volume for different recordings.



 

Only if they are line stage, posted on April 21, 2016 at 16:02:06
kavakidd
Audiophile

Posts: 20316
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: April 15, 2004
 only
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

 

Why not use a Placette, posted on April 21, 2016 at 16:41:13
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Use it between either a source and preamp or between preamp and amp.

 

Dual volume pots balance question, posted on April 21, 2016 at 16:48:39
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 I listen-try a mono recording with voice and see if it's tightly focused.

 

RE: Why not use a Placette, posted on April 21, 2016 at 18:55:52
Inmate51
 ?

My system has a volume control and a balance control. The balance control is dead center 99.97 percent of the time.

:)

 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on April 21, 2016 at 19:46:56
M-dB
Audiophile

Posts: 295
Location: Nor Cal
Joined: June 26, 2014
 Geeky? Stunningly!

A decent sounding preamplifier with a nice phono section who's stock tubes had a long life span.

Everyone in my family hated the stepped dual volume attenuators on the 1995 later upgraded (over five months to complete) the 2000 version M3A. Regardless of DIP switch settings finding a comfortable listening level was usually impossible and having to double check the knob settings was a joke. The stepped attenuators were useless for balance control.

I can't imagine using traditional dual volume pots and feel for the original poster.

 

Put a rubber band around both controls and they will turn together. Nt, posted on April 21, 2016 at 20:10:53
viridian
 Nt

 

I'm visualizing a market for audiophile rubber bands... , posted on April 21, 2016 at 22:35:02
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 which would need to be very expensive since there just doesn't seem to be much(if any) demand for them.

BUT, use nice, exotic imported rubber, a fancy casting system to imbed an elegant yet simple logo
into the band, box/display it nicely, overprice it...


"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: Why not use a Placette, posted on April 22, 2016 at 03:46:48
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 for the original post

 

And of course, a variety of colors to match different gear..., posted on April 22, 2016 at 05:48:25
Dman
Audiophile

Posts: 7211
Location: Kansas
Joined: January 28, 2001
 ...but I suspect they'd all be black...

Dman
Analog Junkie

 

OMG. LOL! It would probably work though! (nt), posted on April 22, 2016 at 08:26:44
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 3156
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2018
 nt


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

... glow in the dark... tiny bands for individual knobs as well..., posted on April 22, 2016 at 10:23:35
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 individual bands for different knobs...

Like those nice blue bands on broccoli, only better and WAY more expensive!

They'd work as micro vibration control as well.

ⒸKnobbands.

You read it here first!

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: Why not use a Placette, posted on April 22, 2016 at 11:26:29
johsti
Audiophile

Posts: 5
Location: Bay Area, CA
Joined: April 24, 2006
 I could use a remote controlled volume control between the amp and preamp, but the Placette costs double what I paid for the AI. I think I'll continue to enjoy it for now as is. I'll just level match the volume control at a level that works for most recordings and sources and then pretend the preamp has no volume control at all. Set it and forget it. I have no interest in playing a mono voice recording every time I want to adjust the volume.

The rubber band around the volume controls is not a bad idea. What about attaching little gears from a bike cassette to the volume knobs and adding a chain. I think I've found the solution.

Thanks everyone.

 

Speaking of rubber bands ..., posted on April 22, 2016 at 11:33:23
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13133
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010

Motorized remote volume control.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

Use one from Broccoli. They are thick white blue or purple.. usually nt, posted on April 23, 2016 at 09:50:36
Smelly_Socks
 .

 

A Knobbands band would look nicer so would work better..., posted on April 23, 2016 at 23:39:12
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 because it would be more pleasing to the eye and thusly make you feel better about life in
general which would in turn put you in a better frame of mind and thusly improve your
overall listening experience.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: Audible Illusions Modulus 2D, posted on May 14, 2016 at 07:34:25
thomas_adams22@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: No CAL
Joined: May 13, 2016
 Don't put the "stereo" pot in leave it as it was made. Music recorded and live is never the same, volume, dynamics. There is a person in Africa, no jokes, that put an "Alps" stereo pot in, he says he loves it but is selling it ?!? I'll buy it from you if you contact me before 10:00 hours today, Saturday, May 14. Regards

 

RE: Speaking of rubber bands ..., posted on April 19, 2018 at 11:54:33
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I have all the parts and boards to to a conversion to a IR remote on the existing unit, using the existing VC. I just don't want to do it myself.

I was toying with the idea of upgrading to a ET3/ET3SE but I really do like this preamp. I'm really not in the upgradeitis frame of mind. Just wanting to make life easier.

I know in the end the answer is going to be a software solution to volume control of the digital device. However I'm also very happy with my Marantz NA7004. Hence, I think I'll wait for something worth while to buy at a future date.

 

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