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Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?

99.8.80.50
Posted on March 15, 2016 at 16:03:02
Charlie8521
Audiophile

Posts: 914
Location: South East Michigan
Joined: October 2, 2004
 Saw the following post on Audiogon. Could this be true :( Posted on Audiogon by Sid on Jan 25th:

"Audio Research discontinuing lower lines components?

I have looked at several components in Audio Research's line and they are discontinuing the LS17-se, PH8, and PH6. They discontinued the DAC 8. I know there is a new Ref 6 to replace the Ref 5se and their is a new Ref Phono 3 to replace the Ref Phone 2se coming out. I talked to my dealer and he stated that Audio Research seems to be making their components look more McIntosh like in the Galeo series.

The dealer stated their isn't going to be anything that he has heard that will replace the other lines at this point and that AR will be starting at the LS-27, which is $7500 for preamps. The Ref 75se is the beginning of the line for Amps, which I know, but man are they going the Mac route with prices, nothing to replace the DAC 8 and the other DAC in the line is $11,000, what's up with this, have you guys heard anything more.

The starting point for AR equipment is getting pretty high and the only way a newer person without means will be able to afford it will be to buy use, which could send the used prices up if there isn't anything else in the line. What do you guys think and what have you heard?"
sid1

 

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RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 15, 2016 at 19:42:26
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I don't know anything nor have I heard anything. However, if the company is not selling enough equipment to sustain itself, it makes sense to discontinue products with the least profit margin. In other words, what your saying makes economic sense in a niche market that is shrinking even further.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

There are plenty of alternatives to AR, posted on March 15, 2016 at 20:16:28
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13973
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 on both ends of the price spectrum. BAT, Rogue, Quicksilver, VAC,
Manley, VTL, and several others. None of the ones mentioned are Chinese,
and all of them are high quality. If AR wishes to play at the highest
end of the market, good luck to them. They are not the only oyster in
the stew.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

LS17-SE Entry Level Product, posted on March 16, 2016 at 05:25:40
Charlie8521
Audiophile

Posts: 914
Location: South East Michigan
Joined: October 2, 2004
 I hate to call the LS17-SE as an entry level audio product at $5,500 retail, but it along with other components in that price range makes it possible for first time buyers to try their products. And if happy with their performance makes them want to move up to the higher end products (LS27 and REF series). If your first experience with ARC gear is a $10K preamp, well I think your first time buyers are going to be greatly diminished.

And than they have a sister company Macintosh with dealers in the same cities that are competing for the same customer with SS and Tube gear - I've never understood the business logic on this.

Side note. Paragon Sight & Sound in Ann Arbor MI (I have no affiliation) have a new 17-SE for $2,795 and some Phono Preamps and SS amps at great prices. I already have a 17-SE, otherwise I would buy it.

 

Lessee, posted on March 16, 2016 at 11:52:58
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37555
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 that leaves them with only:

Five preamps
Five power amps
Two integrated amps
Two phono preamps
Three digital sources

How many products should they maintain at any given time? When I was first introduced to them in 1974, here was the line up:

One preamp
Two power amps
Three crossovers (for use with Magnepan Tympanis)
Rack ventilator

As for me, I'm thoroughly enjoying an SP20. :)

Audio Research seems to be making their components look more McIntosh like in the Galeo series

Really? I seem to missing the signature meters (on a preamp?) backlit glass panels and tubes all aglow in green with the Galileo line. :)






 

1974? Hmmmm...., posted on March 16, 2016 at 12:09:49
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31866
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004



This sucker is older than I thought.

The new ARC you posted a pic of looks MUCH more
like it than those Mc units too.

Seem the OP has unnecessary ARC anxiety.


"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: 1974? Hmmmm...., posted on March 16, 2016 at 12:21:47
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37555
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 This sucker is older than I thought.

The SP3 series was introduced in 1972. My first was an SP6 in '81.

The new ARC you posted a pic of looks MUCH more like it than those Mc units too.








The design team succeeded with their goal. :)

 

RE: LS17-SE Entry Level Product, posted on March 16, 2016 at 12:28:04
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37555
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 ... makes it possible for first time buyers to try their products.

You'll have the next twenty years in the second hand market to continue that ability. Three of the ARC products I've purchased over the years weren't new.

Which I found to be no problem given their hand built instrument grade quality and factory service commitment. :)

 

Don't shoot the messenger!, posted on March 16, 2016 at 13:14:50
Justlisten2
Audiophile

Posts: 1266
Location: SE PA
Joined: March 8, 2001
 ARC is just following the market demands. No different than the direction other American companies are taking. Look at the prices of VAC and BAT gear lately.

The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer. Caiyn, PrimaLuna, etc., will make product for those moving downstream, while ARC, VAC, BAT, etc., will make product for those moving upstream.

Adjust to the changing market or reap the consequences.

 

RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 16, 2016 at 14:24:21
rkeman
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Location: Florida
Joined: July 26, 2003
 It seems that the entire high end market is moving significantly higher in price. Perhaps this is due to a shrinking market, loss of dealer base or increased competition with multichannel audio/video products and direct marketers. Audio Research and many other high end manufacturers appear to have little presence in what remains of the stereo equipment marketplace and time will tell if these companies can survive producing megabuck components that few will ever hear and even fewer can afford.

 

RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 16, 2016 at 14:49:17
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15515
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 These companies are always going to quit making the products that sell poorly.

 

I've been happy with my Anthem gear, posted on March 16, 2016 at 15:09:32
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15166
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 It lobbed off a whole decimal place on the cost spectrum.

Of course, their entry level tube gear is now in the 'no-end' category as well.

 

Maybe what ARC is saying is..., posted on March 16, 2016 at 15:19:31
Charlie8521
Audiophile

Posts: 914
Location: South East Michigan
Joined: October 2, 2004
 ... we are targeting buyers for our separate components for those that have system investments north of maybe $35K to $40K (or $60K to $100K).

And for those that want a more modest investment than go to their VSi60 or VSi75 Integrate Preamp & Amp ($5K and $9K respectfully as I understand it). Maybe at that price point a great integrated is smarter way to go. I wonder what the quality of the preamp section is like compared to the LS17-SE.

And for those with more limited budgets, go to their sister company Wadia that offers digital amps starting at $1,500.

I'm sure people like Conrad Johnson are thrilled that ARC seems to be abandoning separate components below $5.5K (I'm generalizing here to make a point). This just seems to create a great opportunity for manufactures like CJ to get independent ARC dealers to also carry their lower cost products for their clientel.

Just some thoughts for consideration.

 

C-J will follow,.., posted on March 16, 2016 at 21:00:28
DustyC
Audiophile

Posts: 962
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ARC and C-J have been the 2 big dogs for years. Look for price increases by C-J soon. Manley had big price increases a few years ago.

 

Business Strategy choices, posted on March 17, 2016 at 04:38:31
Charlie8521
Audiophile

Posts: 914
Location: South East Michigan
Joined: October 2, 2004
 Dusty, I guess it all boils down to the fact that we have open market competition where firms develop and pursue their own business strategies while taking into consideration their competitors and the market - and than live with the results whether positive or negative.

 

RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 17, 2016 at 12:05:34
digepix
 The high end audio industry can be elitist and it seems some companies are moving that way. If there are enough wealthy people to buy their stuff they survive if not the industry declines further, only time will tell.

 

RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 17, 2016 at 12:26:25
fin1bxn@msn.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2215
Location: new jersey
Joined: November 15, 2005
 I'm one of the fortunate ones that has a High end system which includes the ARC SP20. I worked hard and saved to get the best I could afford.

Their are mid fi products, like Jolida, NAD, Marantz, Rotel, Creek and they will supply the best sound for that price range.

Something for everyone. America its a great place.....

Its the same for any market.
I own a ford Mustang, but would rather have a Ferrari, just cant afford it.

 

C-J already has... more or less, posted on March 17, 2016 at 15:08:34
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46277
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 ...but instead of abandoning their entry products, C-J has "cheapened" their entry models while keeping the prices almost in check. In other words, you get a lot LESS for your money in C-J's entry products than you ever did in the past. Just look at their entry amp and preamp compared to a decade ago. Laughable, IMHO.


 

RE: C-J already has... more or less, posted on March 18, 2016 at 08:44:13
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 I never liked the entry level pv10 which started around 2000. Is the Classic the entry level now?


ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

Short-run manufacturers in the USA must focus on high-margin products, posted on March 18, 2016 at 09:08:32
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9836
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 Production of virtually all mass market products and most mid-range products has moved off-shore. It's merely the economics involved.

OTOH, none of the ARC line has ever struck me as cheap.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 18, 2016 at 10:43:45
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 Is Audio Research an Italy/China product?If so why give a shit. It is like Chinese Quad....Nonsense that they cannot make it here with the margins they have. Audio research is not Apple that has to produce 5,000,000 units every quarter.. They are just after the last nickel and dimes. Scold me if I am wrong. This hardly a matter of quality control who has seen the fute demographically.

 

RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 18, 2016 at 10:47:31
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 ...a company that has seen the future demographically and sold itself and is walking away.

 

RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 18, 2016 at 14:58:44
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37555
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Is Audio Research an Italy/China product?

Italian owned, but continues to be manufactured in Minneapolis.

The same story can be said for McIntosh owned by the same company. Their products are still manufactured in Binghamton, NY.

 

RE: Audio Research Corp. - Is the post true?, posted on March 18, 2016 at 15:02:41
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 Thanks . That is welcome news and I was way off base.

 

I might be wrong but I think you're missing the point, posted on March 18, 2016 at 20:03:53
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 It's not that things like the SP-17 didn't sell well.

It's that there is a lot more money in ten to twenty grand preamps.



'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: C-J already has... more or less, posted on March 19, 2016 at 13:54:35
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46277
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I believe the Classic series are some their entry models. Look at their entry power amps both tube and ss. Some are either "cheapened" by design to keep prices almost in check, while the price point on their better products have gone up significantly.

I think they're at least trying to keep some affordable products around while others have simply given up and gone for the very high end market.



 

Maybe Audio Research is missing the point., posted on April 13, 2016 at 19:58:02
JerryS
Reviewer

Posts: 2026
Joined: February 24, 2001
 Abandoning entry-level products removes and could alienate a large number of potential customers.

Since new "audiophiles" start with lower priced gear to test the waters, Audio Research seems to be saying that the industry is unable to attract a new generation of "serious" listeners. The result is NO NEW AUDIOPHILES.

If this is AR's thinking, I hope they are wrong.

Larger volumes of unit sales is seen at lower prices. This should offset lower profit per unit.

 

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