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Merrill Audio Taranis first listen (Hypex Ncore)

108.14.40.252
Posted on February 9, 2016 at 09:10:35
bullethead



I took today off from work, received the Merrill Audio Taranis a few hour ago.

Sound is very very different from ICE (comparing to my Bel Canto REF500S) A completely new sound. More airy, more decay, better bass, I don't hear any grain or harsh glaze.

It is just an hour or so, I will chime in after a few weeks, I am impressed and impressed at the power this thing has as well. Drives my Gallo Ref 3.5 no problem, and these are hard to drive.

Overall a very nice change,

 

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RE: Merrill Audio Taranis first listen (Hypex Ncore), posted on February 9, 2016 at 10:38:40
mkuller
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 ...my impression of the expensive Merrill hypex was that it was detailed, very clean and sterile sounding.

 

RE: Merrill Audio Taranis first listen (Hypex Ncore), posted on February 9, 2016 at 10:43:52
plugmein
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 I heard the same thing at a friends UNTIL he placed a tubed pre-amp in front and then it was a game changer. Best sound ever barr none. This was with the Merrill Veritas monoblocks.

 

RE: Merrill Audio Taranis first listen (Hypex Ncore), posted on February 9, 2016 at 10:44:29
bullethead
 My impression also of this one, very very quick and neutral.

 

What speakers? (nt), posted on February 9, 2016 at 14:39:43
mkuller
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 (nt)

 

RE: Merrill Audio Taranis first listen (Hypex Ncore), posted on February 10, 2016 at 08:21:40
AbeCollins
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 There's a nonexistent "spec" or characteristic that cannot be quantified on a data sheet that I call "soul". The hugely powerful Class AB Bryston 7BSST2 monoblocks that I once owned had outstanding specs but they were also lean, clean, detailed, quick, and sterile. Until I put a good tube preamp ahead of them, they were pretty much unlistenabe. The tube preamp helped a lot but wasn't enough to fix the Bryston shortcomings so I gave up on them.

I have found similar shortcomings with the older ICEpower and Hypex amps I have owned. That being said, I'm still open to trying Class D again..... maybe in another year or so as the "newness" and excitement of recent nCore fades and prices start to drop. We're already seeing this as more amp makers stuff the same nCore modules into their designs.


 

RE: Merrill Audio Taranis first listen (Hypex Ncore), posted on February 10, 2016 at 08:39:19
A.Wayne
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 Why wait , you can roll your own Monoblocs for 1500.00 courtesy of Hypex, try it , you know you want to ... :)

 

RE: Merrill Audio Taranis first listen (Hypex Ncore), posted on February 10, 2016 at 09:23:21
pictureguy
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 Please see the Smith Chart and the text for electrical measures of the Gallo 3.5 ref.
It is NOT generally bass friendly having a large (50 degrees) reactive peak at low frequencies.
The partnering amp should be pretty capable of driving such loads or it need not apply.
Too much is never enough

 

I use an ARC SP3A with my EVS 100S..., posted on February 10, 2016 at 09:41:07
musetap
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 And (mind you) the EVS 100S relies on pretty dated Class D module technology at this point (NOT the finished amp).

And the ARC is certainly NOT cutting edge.

Heaven none the less.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Or..., posted on February 10, 2016 at 10:06:36
mkuller
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 ...use a separate bass amp.

 

... which BH does..., posted on February 10, 2016 at 10:07:22
musetap
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 aa
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: ... which BH does..., posted on February 10, 2016 at 10:08:44
pictureguy
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 Absolutely:
Just pointing out that the Gallo is not the 'easiest' load and even the proposed bass-only amp must be capable of dealing with it.
Too much is never enough

 

My hypothesis on "sterile" ..., posted on February 10, 2016 at 10:38:22
Feanor
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 ... Is that it means lacking in 2nd and/or possibly 3rd order harmonic distortion.

So, for example, putting a 2nd order HD-injecting preamp makes the "sterile" sound amp sound "better".


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: My hypothesis on "sterile" ..., posted on February 10, 2016 at 11:20:26
Jack G
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 I'm not convinced of that. The D-sonic M1500s(pascal modules) have pretty much the same ridiculously low distortion figures, and flat FR as other Class D amps, but it is quite warm and not sterile sounding. Surprisingly so. Something else must be going on.
Jack

 

Doesn't the bass amp drive another voice coil in the driver?, posted on February 10, 2016 at 13:34:12
G Squared
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 If yes, does the primary amp still drive the woofer load?
Gsquared

 

Yes. And Yes, posted on February 10, 2016 at 14:42:35
bullethead
 Primary amp (Merrill in my case) drives the primary setup. Including the first voicecoil of the woofer configuration which goes down to about 35hz. With second voicecoil driven (separate amp needed for that, crossover set to 40hz, also in my setup) it then goes down to about 22hz.

 

RE: My hypothesis on "sterile" ..., posted on February 12, 2016 at 00:26:09
morricab
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 You realize that it is high order harmonics that are the ones that make things unpleasant, don't you? You realize that the human brain wants to hear a pattern of harmonics that mimics what a natural harmonic structure in nature and in fact what the ear itself generates?

On the one hand you are partially right, the absence of 2nd and 3rd order harmonics is one sign that an amp might sound sterile; however, it is a side effect of the removal of those harmonics through the use of negative feedback and the multiplication of higher order harmonics that results. Also, the ear/brain expects to see a natural pattern that it then effectively masks...the high orders stand out in contrast as they are not masked.

It takes quite high levels of 2nd order harmonic to be audible and it also depends greatly on the frequency (for example a 2nd harmonic of a 30Hz tone will be inaudible probably up to 10%) but the general literature consensus is between 1 and 2% in a sensitive frequency range. Almost no amps (including SETs) have this much distortion when operated within their rated power bands.

Keep in mind also the tolerance increases with increasing SPL...so even though a SET might have more than 1% at their rated power (eg. 10 watts), with a high sensitivity speaker 10 watts will give a very loud level and 1% 2nd order will remain inaudible. At 1 watt, most SETs are well below 1% and thererfore also inaudible 2nd order...what they LACK at 1 watt is an excessive ratio of high order harmonics.

Good SETs will have a monotonic distortion pattern (exponential decay with increasing harmonic order) so that at low power they literally have no high order harmonics and that comes in with increasing power, which tracks well with the masking effects that SPL have for audibility.

 

RE: My hypothesis on "sterile" ..., posted on February 12, 2016 at 08:38:51
A.Wayne
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 And yet many prefer CLass-D to SET's ... go figure ........ :)

 

Why do tube preamps ahead of s/s power amps work for a lot of people?, posted on February 12, 2016 at 08:42:13
Feanor
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 It's hard to believe that it's entirely that the tube preamps have less high-order harmonics that s/s -- which, in any case, they often do not.

There's no dispute from me that high-order sounds bad, but it's hard to believe that 0.001% of high-order sounds bad while 1-2% of 2nd order is inaudible. Reports that this is so might be an artifact of testing. I would like to know about testing that specifically treats my hypothesis that such levels of 2nd order disguise say, 0.1 or less of high-order.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

It's a matter of taste ..., posted on February 12, 2016 at 08:44:13
Feanor
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 ... I suspect a lot of people like more distortion 2nd or maybe 3rd order.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

Fellow Gallo Ref , posted on February 12, 2016 at 13:43:39
G Squared
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 owner just added a pair of these to his set up to add some punch. I think he has a 15 in sub for the deepest bass as well. His initial reaction was joy, but it always starts out the at way.
Gsquared

 

What may be going on:, posted on February 12, 2016 at 13:52:27
DrChaos
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 Most of the sound differences are in the input stage, and these are different across manufacturers.

I have a NAD M22 (nCore) I previously used a Trio C-100 (ICE), and compared to an AB amp.

AB amp (Anthem internal in receiver) got less clear and more annoying in violins in some louder parts (hypothesis; that may be the crossover disotrION)

Trio C-100 and NAD sounded better, and sounded the same across volume levels. To me, they sounded identical in almost all aspects except the M22 had more extended high-frequency response. The C-100 was a bit 'truncated'.

 

RE: Merrill Audio Taranis first listen (Hypex Ncore), posted on February 12, 2016 at 14:08:41
Freo-1
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 Abe,

There seems to be more design choices with Class D that may be worth auditioning. There are offerings from companies such as Digital Amplifier Company and Primare that have taken a different approach to Class D, so it would be worthwhile to listen to them to see how they measure up.

I've not been a big fan of Class D sound overall, BUT, I am convinced that the technology will evolve to the point where most audiophiles will approve of the sonic performance from them.

There are a couple of units over the years that I thought were ahead of the curve. Sony made a couple of units with linear power supplies that sounded pretty good when connected directly to a digital source. The Yamaha MX-D1 was another unit that stood out at the time.
" Don't look back. Something may be gaining on you"

Satchel Paige

 

RE: Why do tube preamps ahead of s/s power amps work for a lot of people?, posted on February 12, 2016 at 14:31:30
b.l.zeebub
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 1-2% 2nd order THD is audible.
2nd harmonics are musically related and reinforce the fundamental (aka 1st harmonic) thereby creating false perceived detail.

Some people like that.

 

RE: Why do tube preamps ahead of s/s power amps work for a lot of people?, posted on February 12, 2016 at 23:41:24
morricab
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 Show me a modern tube preamp with anywhere close to 1% 2nd order distortion and I will show you a broken preamp. Go look at stereophile measurements and Soundstage measurements. Tube preamps mostly measure very low in distortion but it is usually only low order.

 

RE: Why do tube preamps ahead of s/s power amps work for a lot of people?, posted on February 12, 2016 at 23:50:50
morricab
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 Back in the early 1950s, D.E.L Shorter had already proposed a model for harmonics where the weighting of a harmonic was based on the SQUARE of its order. Later, this was found not to be sufficient to capture the impact of the orde of the harmonic. So, why is it so hard to believe? Just because you think it's a small number? Read Pass's thoughts on these things. Transistors can work well if treated right but not Class D, IMO. A good pre will pass the signal with less high order crap...it can also be transistor but there are a lot fewer really good ones from transistors and they are very expensive.

 

RE: Why do tube preamps ahead of s/s power amps work for a lot of people?, posted on February 13, 2016 at 06:52:17
b.l.zeebub
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 Ask Feanor, he's the one who brought it up.

Personally I don't care enough for tubes to look anything up. I want accurate rather than euphonic and if that is your aim tubes have no place in the replay chain. Love tubes in instrument amps though because because in that application their shortcomings become an asset.

 

You are not looking at the big picture, posted on February 13, 2016 at 15:08:19
Freo-1
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 There were a lot of reasons audio transitioned to solid state. Absolute sound quality was not one of them. The early transistor amps sounded awful, it took quite some time to improve their sound quality.

For a broader view of the subject, read the following link provided. Check out the "distortion under test" sidebar. Very interesting.
" Don't look back. Something may be gaining on you"

Satchel Paige

 

it does, posted on February 13, 2016 at 16:27:31
bullethead
 it always starts out that way, I'll wait a few weeks/months before coming to my conclusions in a review.

 

Enjoy the amps, posted on February 13, 2016 at 16:53:39
G Squared
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 They look great. The display is very cool.
Gsquared

 

dark room, posted on February 13, 2016 at 18:30:44
bullethead
 since it is basically reflective, in a dark room it looks black. very cool display, they are even better looking in person.

I have had it up to about 250-300 watts, no distortion, everything seems very very good. I am awaiting for everything to settle, with a long weekend I am sure it'll get a few hours into it and it will sound even better than when it was first plugged in and I had my first listen.

 

RE: You are not looking at the big picture, posted on February 14, 2016 at 04:26:33
b.l.zeebub
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 So the guy seems to be claiming that individual tubes have a lower noise floor and THD comparable to transistors.

If that is the case how come that when built into an amp tubes measure so abysmally?
Are tube amp designers stupid while those who design transistor amps are able to perform miracles given that my entire (power) amp measures better than his individual transistors?
Or may be he deliberately chose particularly bad transistors to promote his own business.

And yes the author of the original article is correct when he says that tubed gear is popular in studios. That is because tubes are euphonic and thus become part of the artistic process.
He is also correct that tube compressor prices have rocketed. This is because the main offenders in the Loudness Wars, the Lorde-Alge brothers, create their excessive compression using banks of those tube compressors and eqs.
But they go after their specific sound if you want accurate the choice will always be transistors or digital over tubes.

 

Not everyone agrees with your assessment., posted on February 14, 2016 at 05:17:45
Freo-1
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 The assertion that tubes are euphonic and only solid state is accurate is simply not valid across the board. While some tube circuits can be euphonic, many solid state amps sound shrill, strident, and anything but accurate.

The link was a summary of the previous article that wasn't included in the reprint.
" Don't look back. Something may be gaining on you"

Satchel Paige

 

RE: You are not looking at the big picture, mutually exclusive audio for all , posted on February 14, 2016 at 06:58:38
A.Wayne
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 Cant we all just get along ..:)

Audio: Where one mans Euphoria is anothers anathema ....

Speaking of ,

"Another audio expert--Bruce Rozenblit, the owner of Transcendent Sound Co., Kansas City, Mo., and a well-known designer of tubed amplifiers--said he sees the output transformer as a major factor behind tube sound: "The warmth is created by a large component of second-order distortion, and the slow rise time of the output transformer causes a coloration that I would describe as a smoothing effect...the transformer is a nonlinear element that causes alterations of the signal in the time and frequency domains, thereby altering the sound."

So its Euphonic

The End

Lol :)

 

RE: dark room, posted on February 14, 2016 at 08:19:08
Jack G
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 I would find the display way to distracting, especially in a dark room.
Jack

 

This is what it looks like, posted on February 14, 2016 at 08:23:34
bullethead



Very pretty, you can also turn the display off.

 

RE: This is what it looks like, posted on February 14, 2016 at 08:58:15
A.Wayne
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 Good stuff , thats a really good setup , i usually have to turn on the lights to see the images ..... :)

 

RE: You are not looking at the big picture, posted on February 16, 2016 at 06:42:30
morricab
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 Not all amps measure abysmally and even if they do, so what? Can you show me where there is a strong correlation between non-specific THD and sound quality? I can show you some results that show that there is no correlation between low THD and sound quality. That is because what most people (including engineers) think is important is not really so important for sound quality.

That being said, preamps with tubes often measure just as good transistor preamps. The data is out there, just look.

The biggst problem with tube amps is often the output transformer not being adequate. With a good output transformer and within the actual powerband of the amp the distortion is reasonably low with a good design. It is not transistor low becuase little or no negative feedback is used. Look at that same transistor amp without feedback and if it is even stable you will see MUCH higher distortion...it is inherently non-linear and being forced to behave (more or less) with feedback. However, htere is a price to be paid for this and it can be heard sonically by careful (or often even not so careful) listening.

 

Cost effectiveness, posted on February 18, 2016 at 20:20:19
E-Stat
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 Sufficiently powerful tube amps are not inexpensive. It took me a while to get there while settling for using tubes at the preamp level only.

 

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