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Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?

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Posted on September 30, 2015 at 18:48:46
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 Greetings,

Currently I own a pair of Focal Aria 948s. Combined with a McIntosh C50 and MC452, it's the most satisfying sound I've heard in a home environment. Unfortunately, there's no way I can afford those 2 units in the next 25 years or so. Can anyone recommend something comparable? I know McIntosh makes the MC152, but I'm new to this so I have no idea how much the C50 colors the sound (I heard that combo 5 states away, and no one in my area has that gear on hand).

There's the MA5200 and MA6600, which are in my price range on the secondhand market, but reviews on both seem mixed.

Bottom line: is there another brand and/or model that comes close to the C50/MC452 combo for $3k or under? My source is an Oppo BDP-103, which has a somewhat weak DAC IMO (Peachtree Novas are 10-15% better, for example). I really only need 1 digital input and about 100 quality watts, hopefully that helps my situation?

 

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RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on September 30, 2015 at 20:24:19
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 I've not heard these but you might want to look at Line Magnetic and PrimaLuna. LM has a good buzz for being really good for the cost and PL is suppose to be a warmer presentation like Mac, not similar, just in the same camp.

I have owned Conrad Johnson which is a good option if you like a bit of romance to your music, their gear seemingly puts soul into the music. You may not get 100 watts of tube power on your budget but could put a decent pre & power amp together from the used market.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 03:09:41
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 Thank you sir; I've contacted all 3 to see if there's a place to demo in my area!

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 05:04:40
vahe
Audiophile

Posts: 449
Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: September 11, 2005
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=665226

Vahe

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 05:24:11
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 Thank you sir! Was leaning towards the 152, I just wonder the value proposition of separates over a fully integrated like 5200/6600 given my speakers, room, need for a DAC, and limited experience with hifi. The ony way to know is to give a try of course, just unfortunate there's no proper dealers in my area to assist.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 05:29:54
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15519
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Wait for your gear to come into the used/demo market via eBay or Audiogon.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 05:37:05
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 That's definitely plan B; unfortunately on those particular units even secondhand is out of the question financially (at least at the current rates).

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 10:35:14
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Instant gratification is vastly over rated.
Save for what you want. Get a plan together.

Audition OTHER gear. If only Mc will do? you're stuck. The Aria 948 is listed as 90+db sensitive, so 100 watts will be plenty unless in a very large space with a preference for high levels.

If I lived NEAR enough to you, I'd bring over a Parasound amp, just for another, more affordable, data point.

As for the C50 'coloring' the sound, keep in mind that Mc has a definate 'house sound'. I haven't heard any buzz to tell me much different.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 10:51:05
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 Agreed on all points - I've actually tried: PeachTree 220SE, Parasound JC1, SimAudio 340i, Emotiva XPA-1L, Rotel 1582, Primare i32 and NAD M22. Unfortunately, of all those, I've only had the PeachTree and Emotiva in-house. I'm surprised to find not many places allow returns without huge fees or offer rentals of any kind. I guess a restocking fee could be considered a rental, but 15% is quite a bit in my mind.

My space is large by many standards - 19x17x10', listening position at about 15'. The 948 actually recommends a distance of 12'. Not sure if that's worth anything, but there it is...

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 11:27:02
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Your room is about 3300 CUBIC FEET, the proper way to measure a room, IMO.
That and the RATIOs of lengths are all that matter. Your room is a strong 'medium' to 'medium large'.
My house is a small house and the stereo is in the largest room of well OVER 4000 cubic feet.

The JC-1 is a superb amp, no question about it. to bad you never even got it warm.

And I can see WHY brick/morter stores don't allow rentals. Maintaining a 'rental fleet' would be a HUGE expense not readily capitalized.
Is there a business idea here? HMMMMMM.

You have heard some well regarded stuff. No question that you covered quite a spectrum. Too bad that such comparisons on somewhat to completely unknown systems are either irrelevent or misleading or perhaps worse. Trusting reviewers is NO better unless you and the reviewers priorities align or NOT align in known ways. All reviews to be taken with a grain of salt.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 13:33:51
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 The JC-1s were a tough call - I can't afford them, but according to the salesman (what a surprise) they are very representative of the A21 which is in my price range. They were playing on some 2-way Magicos, a sound I was totally unfamiliar with. It was a pretty good team, but didn't have the "Wow" factor I had the 2x I heard the Mc's on my Focals. Maybe the A21 would have that effect if I brought it home, but who knows?

And you're right - reviews just aren't helpful. Every salesman I talked to seemed to take it personally that I wasn't super excited about Triton Ones even though "the whole Internet says they're as good as speakers 5x the price." But, you like what you like...

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 15:44:39
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 Consider a used MA6500 or MA6900. Both integrated amps are recent enough to be in mint condition. I purchased a new MA6500 in 2002 and, despite having newer gear, would never consider trading it in or selling it. The sonics are superb.

I suggest avoiding the peculiar MA6300, which has an un-McIntosh-like power-amp section (it is highly elevated in the upper mids and treble).

One source to check is audioclassics.com, which is well known to McIntosh fans. They offer a free trial period. I never made a purchase there but they have an excellent reputation. They told me a few years ago that they often have equipment available that is not on their website, so give them a telephone call.

Here is a link:

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 1, 2015 at 17:39:42
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 I was completely unfamiliar with both of these units - thank you sir, very helpful! Ironically I talked to Audio Classics for some time this afternoon. They might get me into this gear after all!

 

Unison Unico 50, posted on October 2, 2015 at 06:32:38
Dave_K
 You might consider a Unison Unico 50 hybrid integrated amp (tube pre/solid state power). I listened to it with 3 different speakers and it was a really good match for speakers that are bright & detailed like most Focals. It has robust bass, good dynamics, nice tone, slightly warm and laid back presentation. Throws a decent soundstage too. It's rated at 120W into 8 ohms but it has a strong power supply and seems like it could drive anything. I think the price was a little over $4k which seemed like a good deal for the performance.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 2, 2015 at 07:01:09
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Caustic....McIntosh has a house sound you seem to like. It will be hard to find that sound in another brand. Keep looking, and listening, but my advice is to start saving and get the items you want. As for ME, I would feel anything else would be a temporary, unfulfilled stopgap.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 2, 2015 at 07:05:40
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 That's what I'm thinking myself - perhaps a 0% interest scenario in the making. My main goal in making the post was that I feel, when it comes to McIntosh, you're paying a bit for "unnecessary" features - meters, fancy knobs and glass, and maybe even the brand name. In a perfect world I could find the same performance in a shoebox and save myself $1k, but that's looking less and less likely.

 

RE: Unison Unico 50, posted on October 2, 2015 at 07:08:52
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 Thanks - I've not heard of Unico before, but i'll definitely look into it. As always, though, no dealers in my area :(

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 3, 2015 at 14:17:08
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 I've been doing a lot of reading on these 2 models - there seems to be a lingering debate about whether the 6900 and 6500 sound basically identical? Have you ever heard both? Of course the greedy part of me wants the autoformers, but if no one can tell the difference in a blind A/B then I'll keep my $.

Also, I was going throuhg some of your older posts and you mentioned that a Quad 909/99 pairing was almost, if not as good as, the MA6500 with a similar sound signature. Now that some years have passed, do you still feel the same way? The Quads are dirt cheap these days.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 3, 2015 at 20:10:47
theforerunner
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Joined: October 5, 2001
 I just got my first McIntosh, an MA6500 about two months ago and am absolutely blown away by how good it sounds. I've had some really good gear, Pathos, Manley, Bryston, Musical Fidelity, and Simaudio . When I put the MA6500 into my system the change was the most dramatic of all. It mates extremely well with my Revel monitors. I wish I had gone this route a long time ago.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 3, 2015 at 20:15:27
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 Thanks for jumping in! My mind is pretty much made up - a MA6900 if I can get someone to cough it up for about $3k USD, otherwise I'm seeing the MA6500s for about $2k. I wonder if I'd be doing myself a disservice by jumping straight to the 6900? The 6500 will probably blow my mind in 2, but there's this long standing debate re: 6900 vs 6500, mostly due to autoformers.

Any thoughts?

 

Maybe this will help, posted on October 3, 2015 at 21:15:21
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 I went through the same dilemma back in 2002. McIntosh makes specific models in bunches, then moves onto another model. When I was ready to purchase, the MA6900s were temporarily unavailable.

I then had long conversations with a McIntosh engineer and a customer-service specialist. Both told me to make a choice based on my preferred features. They assured me that sonically the MA6500 and MA6900 would be impossible to tell apart. When I asked about the debates on the internet about Autoformers, both gentlemen said they are designed to be sonically invisible. Again, I was told to focus on the differences in features.

So instead of waiting for an MA6900, I purchased the MA6500. I am glad I did so. There are two advantages in selecting an MA6500: it is much easier to lift and costs far less to ship if it ever needs repairing. Another key difference between the two units is that the MA6500 has bass and treble controls, whereas the MA6900 has a five-band graphic equalizer.

I have not visited McIntosh's website for a long time, but they have always had info available that explained the purpose of the Autoformer. Sometimes the info is at the back of a downloadable (integrated amp or power amp) user manual.

 

RE: Maybe this will help, posted on October 4, 2015 at 04:45:18
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 That is EXTREMELY helpful - thank you!

By chance, do you know much about what's changed between that generation of amps and the newer gen? MC152, 452, etc. vs. whatever was out at that time? Because amps are always summarized with the same basics specs, at first glance you'd think the only thing they changed was from bulbs to LEDs.

 

RE: Maybe this will help, posted on October 4, 2015 at 10:30:18
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 Cannot help you there. Sorry. I have owned many preamps, power amps, and integrated amps--both tube and solid state--but I am so pleased with the MA6500 that I decided to not bother looking into other McIntosh amplification for my primary system.

I purchased an MA6300, which is still a current model, for a secondary system, but it was returned due to being much too elevated in the upper mids and treble, as noted earlier. The MA6300 did not have that smooth, neutral to a bit warm, nonfatiguing sound for which McIntosh is well known. Why the MA6300 sounded more like a Bryston amp is a mystery. I was told later the unit was performing as designed. Strange.

Whatever you purchase I hope it can be returned for a refund. You never know what a component will sound like until it is installed in your system.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 4, 2015 at 11:08:12
jimmycj
Audiophile

Posts: 1507
Joined: December 6, 2004
 Go used

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 4, 2015 at 11:14:46
jimmycj
Audiophile

Posts: 1507
Joined: December 6, 2004
 I havent read Stereophile reviewof LM yet,just a glance ,weight 77 pound,i think it said under 5 k ? Consider a amp and and preamp right there,and if it fits for you ,man it seems pretty dang good price all things considered.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 4, 2015 at 12:30:58
4Play
Audiophile

Posts: 40
Location: WV
Joined: August 20, 2015
 Once you have owned a McIntosh, it would be hard to find anything similar. I have a MA5100 integrated which was the first integrated McIntosh ever made. It also happens to be my very first McIntosh component. The original specs say it is putting out 45WPC, but I have paperwork saying mine is putting out 58WPC.

Once you have McIntosh and you've listened to the music for several hundred hours or so, it would be hard to find a similar component in another brand that would be better than McIntosh.

If you are wanting to buy McIntosh, your best bet would be to buy used. Most people who own McIntosh seem to take care of their gear better. If any part of the component is questionable, Audio Classics will help you get it checked out. They are wonderful people to deal with.

 

RE: Maybe this will help, posted on October 4, 2015 at 13:40:11
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 Gotcha - I have a lead on a 6900 for a really good price, albeit still more than the average 6500. I am concerned, as you say, about never knowing what something sounds like until you get it home. But, the only McIntosh I've heard that I didn't like was the MA5200 - and that may have only been because it was hooked up to B&W 683s (I don't like B&W, generally, and the 5200 doesn't have the power necessary for that speaker at my listening levels IMO).

Thanks again for all your suggestions - it's definitely put my mind at ease about making this project work out!

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 4, 2015 at 13:41:33
caustic386
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Joined: September 11, 2015
 Yeah that's where I'm at now - any integrateds that you like for around $3k?

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 4, 2015 at 13:45:20
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 I eventually discovered that the Quad 909 power amp was the real star of the 909+99 duo. The 909 has a beautiful, almost tube-like, midrange. The very top end is slightly "rolled off," which might make it particularly ideal for a hot tweeter. The 909's bass is a bit soft compared with amps that have a potent low end.

I am not fond of the 99 preamp's bit of edginess in the upper mids.

The McIntosh MA6500 is sonically superior overall by a significant margin. But a really good preamp (McIntosh, for example) mated with the Quad 909 would make an excellent combo with the appropriate speakers. I really like the 909's gorgeous midrange.

 

RE: Maybe this will help, posted on October 4, 2015 at 15:26:40
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 Glad to help. Keep us updated if you can.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 5, 2015 at 13:05:14
4Play
Audiophile

Posts: 40
Location: WV
Joined: August 20, 2015
 Caustic386 wrote:
"Yeah that's where I'm at now - any integrateds that you like for around $3k?"

AC has two MA6300s... 1 Mint and 1 Near Mint for sale. Puts out 100WPC.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 17, 2015 at 11:26:06
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 salesmen trying to SELL SELL SELL are not helpful at all. you need a guy to help YOU find what you find of musical value. Even if it's the 500$ a pair bottom of the line speaker.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on October 30, 2015 at 19:14:33
Terry P
 >My space is large by many standards - 19x17x10', listening position at about 15'.<

Consider half the power you want (i.e., 50 watts vs 100) if you go with a tube unit. My listening room is almost the same dimensions as yours (18'6" by 16'8" by 10) with a huge atrium completely open on one side and my speakers are lower efficiency (90 db) than yours. I've had several SS units, most recently a 200wpc Plinius, and I've found that much lower powered tube units completely power up the space very well. I'm now listening to Hendrix on vinyl on a Cary SLI-80 in triode mode (40wpc) now and I can't move the volume mode past noon without blowing my ears off. I've had this unit for 15 months and it's the same on all music. I could go to UL mode for 80 wpc but never need it except for "drive" on music like AC/DC. I previously demo'd an Icon audio 20/40 watt integrated with similar results.

Those who have said that tube power is significantly greater than SS are so correct. Heed that advice and you'll have a much greater variety of units to select from and at a better price.

 

RE: Want McIntosh, can't afford it - what do?, posted on November 4, 2015 at 07:14:46
rich42
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Joined: November 3, 2015
 You might want to look at some used Accuphase stuff.. Not cheap and not a toy.. Really serious stuff and I find to be an equal to McIntosh, Krell,Bryston and other high end products.. Just over looked by many because they do not know the name.. Have been around since the early 70's.. New stuff has on the shelf pricing upwards of $15-20K USD. But a older used 20-25 unit can be found for under a few $K or less depending on condition. I have 4 P-300 power amps (now slightly modified - current limiters removed and some new caps in the power supply) and they hold their own very well against anything I have found including Krell and McIntosh.. I was using a C29 Mac for a number of years with 2 of them.. I have since moved on to a higher end 7.2 Yamaha receiver and use the 4 P-300's from the pre-outs to drive the speaker system in the theater.. 165wpc into 8 ohm and 325wpc into 4 ohms (MEASURED!) and can do it all day long. Tremendous headroom and super sweet character. These are often referred to as the "Japanese McIntosh".. Check them out at http://accuphase.com/

-Rich

 

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