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Follow-up to July post about system changes and hearing loss

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Posted on August 31, 2015 at 06:08:35
Doktor Brahms
Audiophile

Posts: 611
Location: Southeast
Joined: November 25, 2004
Greetings! So I've been wearing a hearing aid for more than a month now. Those who posted messages earlier about the need for repeated visits to tweak the thing were spot-on. Such fine tuning is definitely part of the menu. All told, I'd say the experience has been more positive than negative. It makes everyday life more comfortable. As for focused music listening on a two-channel system, well...I'm afraid my experience is not so encouraging. Maybe the effect is psychological, but the idea of taking SACD, vacuum tubes, and a pair of high-resolution floor-standing speakers and funneling all of that through a tiny capsule, a length of tubing, and a plastic dome stuck in my ear canal just does not make for satisfying listening. The audiologist loaded a music program onto the unit that brought about marginal improvements, but I have to face the fact that my main rig doesn't sound satisfying. And when I remove the HA, the buzzing inside my ear becomes too readily apparent, to the point that it distracts from my listening enjoyment. (An aside: if you suffer hearing loss and are experiencing tinnitus as a result, one of the primary benefits of wearing a HA is the amelioration of this effect.) I can assure you that this was not a snap judgment--rather, it is the result of many long (and frustrating) hours of listening and experimentation.

Long story short, I've decided to pursue a multi-channel system for my main rig. I plan to incorporate home theater into this. Here's why: in a spare bedroom I have a very modest home theater set-up. To my own surprise, when I listen to a decent YouTube video of a classical concert, the combination of video and surround sound makes for an engaging listening/viewing experience. Dare I say it? Yes--it has become more satisfying than music alone on my main rig.

Thus my decision to move into a multi-channel system. The choices before me are bewildering, and the selection process is made more challenging by the puzzling fact that reviews focus on movies and two-channel music listening, but very few seem to address listening to two-channel music in surround modes. (A notable exception: Kal Rubinson's "Music in the Round" column.) I've accumulated quite a library of multichannel SACDs over the years, but the vast majority of my music is two channel, and I'm very much interested in experimenting with using a judicious application of DSP modes or whatever options are available to expand the soundfield.

Here's my short list of options based on my research so far: a Marantz receiver supplemented by an outboard amp to power the main L/R speakers, or an NAD T-787 receiver. The NAD appeals because of their proprietary music surround mode, which they claim avoids the artificial artifacts of other DSP surround technologies. Believe me, I've been the victim of such artifacts, and I'd like to avoid them. The Marantz seems to lack an emphasis on music surround modes (which strikes me as a bit surprising), with options limited to the usual line-up of Dolby and Neo. And, of course, enhanced stereo, which a cynic might label the Bose setting. I have music-loving friends who put great stock in Yamaha's proprietary DSP music modes (Hall C in Amsterdam, jazz club, and such like), but I've never found them particularly convincing. BTW, my selection process is influenced by my preference for dealing with local brick-and-mortar shops.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but this is a complex and multifaceted problem. And I suffer from a low threshold of "choice stress," so any advice from fellow inmates would be a great help. Feedback from those of you who have experience with surround music listening would be particularly appreciated, but I value all your opinions. Thanks!

 

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RE: Follow-up to July post about system changes and hearing loss, posted on August 31, 2015 at 06:34:48
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
I am impressed and wish you luck setting up the multi channel system. Most if not all of us will eventually develop some degree of hearing difficulty. So you ARE paving the way for all of us. I will be waiting to read your long (but enjoyable) posts.

Also look into getting the most out of streaming and the new digital toys. Embrace technology!

I can tell that I am at the last stages of listening to two channel stereos. Unfortunately my other hobby is astronomy. And me eyeballs are going as well. So I'm loosing two hobbies - luck me, and luck us!

charles

 

RE: Follow-up to July post about system changes and hearing loss, posted on August 31, 2015 at 08:15:21
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
While I am a Marantz owner and do recommend their prepros, you might give more attention in your shopping to the Yamaha AVRs because they offer a decent PEQ in addition to their proprietary YPAO room correction. Marantz' Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (too many words) is better than YPAO but, especially in your case, the ability to tweak the sound might be advantageous.

Another option might be to find a used Meridian prepro. IMHO, their DSP tools for upmixing stereo music are superb.

(NB: I have no real experience with any of these AVR, only with the prepros which are similar to the top-of-the-line AVRs/)

 

system changes and hearing loss, posted on August 31, 2015 at 11:21:35
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6599
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since:
July 4, 2007
Hi Dok,

Glad to read you are making progress. And I certainly agree that it can be a complex and multifaceted problem.

I don't know if this might help but it worked for me. When I got my current hearing aids I experienced excessive brightness/hardness with much music. Drawing on my audio experience I ask my audiologist to experiment with level adjustments in the 4-6K range, thinking it was likely high frequencies. That didn't help.

Then I happened upon the attached link which provides the best musical frequency range information I've found. Moving my cursor around higher pitched instruments such as trumpet and flute identified that problems in the 1-2K range can sound "tinny". So returning my 4-6K adjustments to the recommended levels and reducing the 1-2K slightly cured my problem. Now I can listen to live or recorded music with a good presentation of natural sounding tones. So see if the link helps your situation.


"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

It would be useful, posted on August 31, 2015 at 15:01:51
It would be useful if you would reference your previous thread via a link, and even more useful if you would simply add to it, rather than starting a new thread.

 

How about this..., posted on August 31, 2015 at 16:22:50
Audio Snob
Audiophile

Posts: 462
Joined: April 5, 2000
I am not hearing impaired, although with advancing age I can see it coming. I do not wear hearing aids so know little or nothing about them.

However, I ran across an article about "Hearing Aid Loop Systems". In principal, they sound like something that might be attractive to audiophiles..

In brief, as I understand it, the audio signal is transmitted directly to one's hearing aids. I don't know what the audio effect would be, perhaps something like listening through headphones (but that's only a guess on my part).

Again, I know little about this strategy. But if you can sink dollars into an elite audio system, an elite "Loop System" might be a consideration.

More info at: "HearingLoop.org"

 

Should have included a link!, posted on August 31, 2015 at 19:10:33
Doktor Brahms
Audiophile

Posts: 611
Location: Southeast
Joined: November 25, 2004
You're right, a link to my earlier post would have been useful. And here it is:

 

RE: How about this..., posted on September 1, 2015 at 06:53:11
"I am not hearing impaired"

And, you're stickin' by your story.

:)

 

RE: Follow-up to July post about system changes and hearing loss, posted on September 1, 2015 at 08:17:03
rkeman
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Location: Florida
Joined: July 26, 2003
Dolby Pro Logic II Music does a good job "converting" stereo sources to multichannel. The center channel width and volume can be adjusted to taste and the surround adds ambiance without becoming distracting. The Dolby Surround mode on the Atmos-enabled receivers does much the same in generating a hemispheric ambiant field. It actually adds significant depth and breath to the listening experience in many cases. The DTS variants are similar, but sound less realistic to my ears.

 

Your brain has to cooperate. Mine hasn't yet., posted on September 2, 2015 at 05:55:52
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
I'm with you through much of your first paragraph, but surround sound isn't anything I want to pursue. And I have two aids (Oticon Alta 2) since both ears are sub-par, according to the audiologist's report and graph -- looks like a relief map of the Himalayas, in reverse.

They work pretty well EXCEPT for music listening. Yeah, big omission. The funny thing is that sometimes they work okay for that too, for a while. But invariably, the sound -- especially on sax and brass instruments --will become grainy/fluttery and stay that way. And the (inherent?) artificialness will either have to improve or not. Most of the time I end up going au natural when listening-- and it's bye-bye highs. No great loss, actually, since I haven't really heard them in years. I'm 86, if that matters.

Don't try this at home, i.e., without a good audiologist ready to keep trying to make things better. Mine has been just great and has now offered me another brand to try, next Tuesday. Stay tuned.

 

Also look at anthem for surround., posted on September 2, 2015 at 15:15:53
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
I recently acquired an Anthem MRX receiver. It also has its own high quality DSP modes which are much more natural and less intrusive than the standard Dolby Pro logic or Neo whatever's.

Additionally its ARC room correction is also one of the very best, whereas many two channel people often find they don't like the correction on many standard receivers. The MRX come with a microphone and a small tripod. I found it integrated my sub and corrected well with my Maggie 3.6, which are supposed to be fairly touchy to blend with subs without significant effort.

I don't have experience with NAD or hearing aids, but do recommend looking at anthem for their DSP and audio quality,

 

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