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I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring)

192.31.106.34
Posted on July 11, 2015 at 10:35:27
Doktor Brahms
Audiophile

Posts: 611
Location: Southeast
Joined: November 25, 2004
 As I've grown older I've sustained considerable hearing loss in my right ear. The good news is that the imbalance is not caused by any shady situations inside my cranium (like a tumor or something). The bad news is that this affects my ability to enjoy my system. Late last year I posted a message on General asking for feedback from other inmates about hearing aids. There were a lot of very helpful responses, and I plan to acquire one when I finally stop procrastinating.

But I'm also considering an additional strategy, one that involves replacing my preamp. My current preamp is a VAC Renaissance MkII. I love it. It's a pleasure to the ear and the eye. But like most high-end preamps, it lacks a balance knob, and it wouldn't even think of including tone controls. I think you can guess where I'm heading with this.

Much as I would hate to say good-bye to the VAC, I'm considering replacing it with a preamp that has a balance control. But the heresy doesn't end there: while I'm at it, I'm considering a preamp with well-designed tone controls in the hope that recordings can be tailored to my compromised hearing. Plus I have a lot of reissued Columbia recordings (Walter, Szell, Ormandy)and I've often thought that many of them would benefit from a bit of nip-and-tuck (taming the treble a little, boosting the bass a little).

So there you have it. A logical candidate is McIntosh, which does not shrink from features that other high-end companies eschew. I therefore would ask you two questions. (1) Am I about to make a HUGE mistake? (2) If not, do you have other candidates that are worthy to be considered? Note: I have Vandersteen 5 speakers with balanced crossover boxes, so XLR outputs are a must. I welcome your responses and thank you for them.

Disclaimer: my post should in no way be read as a criticism of VAC's design. I have no issue with them; the gear sounds great. I'm just at the point where I might need the system to accommodate itself more to my limitations.

"Golden years" my foot. Getting older is a pain in the neck (along with several other regions).

Thanks, folks.

 

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RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 11, 2015 at 10:53:37
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I feel your pain Doc.....I find myself listening less to my Vandy5A's as well...though there is something beautiful in the air when I do listen. I find that state of the art headphones with proper amplification works to bring that high end thrill to me. I listen to Spotify throughout the house via my Denon receiver....not the highest end, but very pleasant indeed. I tried hearing aids, but even though I sought out the best made, the sound was so terrible...it really had no place in my life. Like everything in all our lives, we do the best we can.

 

RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 11, 2015 at 14:22:10
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 At 86, I'm in pretty much the same situation, with a left ear that is at least marginally stronger than the right one and both ears obviously way less than perfect. My Aesthetix Calypso lets me alter the left/right balance (actually, the channels are independent of each other) from the remote. On several occasions I have tried what you are suggesting and have always come back to the original balance, except of course in cases where the recording itself is out of whack. It simply sounded better to me than the "corrected" version did.

If it's possible to borrow a preamp with channel balance capabilities and tone controls I'd do that first if I were you. But I'm pretty sure I'd keep the VAC. I do feel your pain.

 

RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 11, 2015 at 14:52:19
Palustris
Audiophile

Posts: 2408
Location: Cape Cod
Joined: September 12, 2008
 I would think that separate volume controls for each channel is what you want. At least in terms of least "harm" to the signal, separate volume controls should be more "transparent" than a balance control. I am amused by the thought of a ruler flat frequency response curve at the listening seat. I know my 65 year old ears' need a little boost in the high range which I accomplish in the speaker crossover. I wonder if some younger "golden ears" might find my system too bright, but all my friends are my age so there have been no complaints.

 

RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 11, 2015 at 15:14:59
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 Frequency loss is not the same issue as differences in inter-aural sensitivity. I think the OP should find some way to experiment with his idea before investing in it.

Over the years, I've done some experimenting with corrections for both and success has been spotty. Even if the adjustment seemed an improvement initially, often the listener discards it later thinking it artificial. Remember, the imbalance exists in real life and it is from that one develops his/her subjective references.

 

My take, posted on July 11, 2015 at 15:42:10
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 coming from the hearing aid specialist side that I did for a few years is this: the amazing brain compensates for your loss. So both loss at certain frequencies as well as more in one ear that has happened over time is/has been compensated for by the brain.

This is why when you compensate with hearing devices and/or tone and balance controls it will sound different but really not right. Any changes you make should be subtile and like Kal and Dave said try something first before plunking down money.


Good luck.


E
T
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

Mac C 2500 Tube Preamp has what you're looking for. nt, posted on July 12, 2015 at 07:44:13
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

 

RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 12, 2015 at 08:25:19
kenzo
Audiophile

Posts: 955
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 27, 2003
 go dual mono with whatever preamp you like?

 

Software EQ, posted on July 12, 2015 at 09:52:32
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 6065
Joined: April 6, 2000
 Personally I would have a VERY tough time departing with VAC Ren II preamp. If you ever get the inclination to go with a decent music server, there are software/plug-ins out there with excellent and transparent EQ/balance function.

 

RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 12, 2015 at 09:53:27
digepix
 I have a YBA preamp with a left and right volume control that can act as a balance. It can be a pain if the volume isn't adjusted in sync but for your needs it would work just fine.

 

What about headphones?, posted on July 12, 2015 at 15:14:20
Dave_K
 My intuition says that trying to use a balance control and tone controls to compensate for ear to ear differences will be less effective with speakers since both ears are hearing sound from both speakers. Since you spend the vast majority of your day listening to the world with unbalanced ears, you are more likely to perceive the corrections as "wrong" with speakers than with headphones.

 

Try this ... , posted on July 13, 2015 at 06:15:40
three_sox
 ... From your listening position cover your bad ear with one hand or ear muff or something like that.

Are you happy with what you hear with your bad ear covered?


I think the answer will be, Yes.

If so, don't change anything. I think you are just going to end up chasing your tail without really achieving anything.

Of course by all means get a equalizer to frig around with but if you really like what you have now I doubt you are going to do anything other than go backwards or sideways.

Good luck.

 

RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 13, 2015 at 06:16:30
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 This isn't really a helping point but only an observation.

One of my setup uses my Marantz PM-8004 integrated amp as a PREAMP. One interesting find is that the MIDRANGE control seems to afford much more push and enjoyment in the trebl-ish range. The treble control seems to just "tickle" the far upper range. aka more 3000-5000hz effect.

I know replacing a VAC with a marantz is a big step down and I am NOT recommending it. However, I would NOTTTTTTTT recommend the Mcintosh. I've had several of the newer ones and they tend to have a very soft top end. A reason i no longer own one!!!!

You seem to have $$$ to spend. Take your time, enjoy the hunt and don't rush!!!! Get what you need and try to audition as much as possible.

charles

 

Agreed , posted on July 13, 2015 at 06:18:18
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 If he likes the sound, reinventing his system (preamp) is going to be a long and unpleasant task.

the equalizer will degrade the sound.

I would look into a source that has more of the """software""" functions he needs.

charles

 

RE: hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 13, 2015 at 09:58:38
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 Hi Dok,

As someone with hearing loss in both ears let me make some observations.

I'll suggest your answer could relate to the type of listening you do. Is that nearly always by yourself? With a significant other? Often sharing music with some number of friends?

I ask that because if you have anyone else present besides yourself any correction (balance, EQ, etc.) to make it better for you will likely be worse for them. So if say 90% of your listening is solo, then system corrections or headphones may work. However corrections with tone controls or EQ will be perceived by your good ear as well as the other one. How satisfactory will those corrections be?

Another consideration is for the non-home audio aspects of your life - conversations with family and friends, TV, movies, live music events, etc. Does it not make sense to improve your perceptions for those conditions too?

So I'll suggest making the correction with your hearing, not your system. For technical reasons most audiologists will recommend hearing aids for both ears but if you still have normal hearing in one ear then a single aid may be all you need.

It seems to me your best answer is to stop procrastinating about a hearing aid and then you can keep your VAC, which you otherwise enjoy, and possibly enhance other aspects of your life as well.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 13, 2015 at 16:32:29
Inmate51
 Semi-seriously, if an expensive preamp doesn't include balance and selectable tone controls, it ain't high end except maybe for circuit design/component quality, otherwise, it's bare bones at a high price.

Those are features which were available on nearly every decent integrated amp in the late 70s to early 80s, and which should be available on every "high end" preamp today. Check out the Harman/Kardon hk505 front panel. You'll weep.






:)

 

One idea that did help me - TungSol 12AX7 tubes, posted on July 14, 2015 at 06:05:34
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I noticed your preamp uses 12AX7 tubes.

My Sherwood had a "dark" character to it. In reality it was MY diminishing sensitivity to treble. I ordered a set of new issued TungSol 12AX7's from Jim McShane. What I have found is that this tube has a bright character. Very open and bouncy. I really do like this tube! To some that may be a bad thing. To me the TungSols sound well balanced and exceptionally good - IMO. I actually prefer them over the highly acclaimed vintage RCA Black plates. As well as few others that are triple in price. They run about $14.

The balance - if you need to try speaker positions. I also don't recommend reinventing your system. Tweak it first.

charles

 

RE: I have an idea for dealing with my hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 14, 2015 at 06:28:50
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1990
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 The preamp is not the only place to control channel volume. A choice resister in your amp or crossover are other alternatives.

Not as convenient as turning a knob but not that hard either. If not diy, a tech could pull it off in minutes.

If you could measure room response, you could probably pull this off with the first pass. I built my own crossovers, so, dialing in resisters/loudness of bass etc. is something I do "on the fly" until me likey. Whereas if you had a tech do it, you would have to listen then make adjustments which may or may not be a pain in the ars. If you could measure and tell the tech, say... I want 10 db more in the right channel, he could probably do that pretty accurately.

And while I'm thinking about it, your hearing loss probably isn't flat across the whole sound spectrum. That would be something else you measure and dial in. Or, just buy something with a knob.

 

RE: hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 14, 2015 at 08:25:16
Inmate51
 M3 Lover has nailed it.

I studied all this stuff back in the day (and am still learning!). Hearing system, psychoacoustics, acoustics, recording techniques, stereo systems,... (but don't ask me to design an amplifier!)

You really should start looking into various hearing aids and their pros and cons. I can't imagine what it's like for you to listen to people in a restaurant, where good binaural hearing is essential. There are hearing aids which are nearly unnoticeable - a thin wire and a tiny module. Heck, my brother-in-law has one, and I didn't even notice it for almost two days, until we were sitting for a while talking, and I happened to see the wire.

Given your interest in listening to music, one of your top priorities will be sound quality. And since you've been avoiding it, another priority will be size/visibility.

Here's a brief summary of some things for you to know:

Both ears hear both speakers. So, correcting the system for one bad ear will sound odd/unpleasant/strange/incorrect in the good ear - sort of the reverse of what you have now.

There is a phenomenon known as the "head related transfer function" (HRTF). This refers to how a sound's frequency balance is modified as sound diffracts around the head. It varies with sound source angle and is somewhat different for different people based on their head geometry. It provides information to the brain regarding the direction of a sound source because of the difference in sound characteristics between one ear and the other.

The ear pinna (the cute thing on the side of your head) further modifies what is sent to the middle ear, AND, the ear canal further modifies the sound because it acts as a resonant tube.

Soooo, if you use a balance control and/or tone controls to compensate for the bad ear, the good ear is going to say "WTF?", as will anyone else who's listening to your system.

Check out hearing aids, and find one which does the job for you!

:)

 

Good post (nt), posted on July 15, 2015 at 05:32:39
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 nt

 

Good responses. Some musings..., posted on July 17, 2015 at 08:12:13
Doktor Brahms
Audiophile

Posts: 611
Location: Southeast
Joined: November 25, 2004
 First, thanks to all for taking the time to respond. Lots of great insight.

Processing all the opinions expressed in your posts has led me to the conclusion that reinventing the system is not my best option at this point. I love my VAC gear and the quality of my system's overall sound. I've concluded that altering the basic qualities of my system on top of my already compromised hearing doesn't make sense.

Next, I've proceeded with getting a hearing aid: a Phonak V90. Expensive, but it has adaptive qualities that enhance its usefulness. When I get it, I think I'll avoid listening to the main system for a period of time until I get used to it. I think it would be a mistake to try it out in a listening session right away. If it's a bad experience, it could poison my mind forever. Easy does it. (I absolutely hated my glasses when I put them on for the first time. I eventually got used to them.)

Finally, I don't mean to court controversy or invalidate anyone's listening experience, but I have never been able to warm up to headphone listening. I'm not quite sure why this is the case, but there it is. I realize that there is a lot of great gear on the market right now, but headphones just don't do it for me. I'm afraid I see them as a sometimes-useful alternative to a "real" listening session. (And yes, those quotation marks are very much intended to be ironic, so please don't take offense.) Sorry.

Again, I appreciate the time and thoughtfulness of my fellow inmates. Thanks again. I will of course report back in a few weeks. Now, maybe a pair of Shahinian Obelisks would provide a more immersive listening experience…hmmm…..

 

A different perspective, posted on July 17, 2015 at 12:02:06
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 Dok, I applaud your decision to address your hearing rather than your system. As mentioned, I see multiple benefits by doing that.

However I question your position, "I think it would be a mistake to try it out in a listening session right away."

Here's why. Understandably most hearing aid manufacturers concentrate on speech discrimination, music listening may be a distant second. The result is their suggested music programs (assuming they offer one) will be very generalized. Imagine if you called an audio store and requested they bring you a complete component system for music listening. What are the chances that would satisfy your particular tastes and interests?

When I first got my hearing aids I went through a reiterative process of listening at home (or at live concerts) and going back for small adjustments based upon my reactions. Unfortunately this is not like being fitted for eye glasses where they can test you for A verses B, then the best of those verses C. Our hearing is too complex and most modern aids offer multiple adjustments. It is hardly possible the audiologist will have a playback system that will allow you to judge much in their office. You need to do that with the system you are familiar with compared to your best recollections of accurate tonal representations.

So I encourage you to have patience and be prepared for a few trips back to your audiologist to "fine tune" your new aid(s) to your liking. And do that at the beginning, nothing to be gained by waiting.

Good luck.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

With all the technology available today..., posted on July 21, 2015 at 10:04:40
tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
Joined: March 21, 2005
Contributor
  Since: October 1, 2005
 Hi, M3 lover,

With the sophisticated technology and micro-processors available I would think that hearing aid developers would be able to come up with a hearing aid that could interface with a computer and let the user calibrate the device using software. Real-time calibration based on what's spinning on your turntable.

Maybe someday.

Regards,
Tom

 

RE: hearing loss (long and probably boring), posted on July 21, 2015 at 11:06:06
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 The problem with hearing aids, is not the vanity issue, but that the sound is so awful...ugly in fact, that any interest that one would have for the beauty of sound is completely gone. The sound is so very plastic and artificial. I tried many of them, and have rejected tham all.

 

Out of the box, I agree, posted on July 21, 2015 at 11:39:59
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 Hi SgreenP,

Through my friend Carter I understand you are a violinist. So I can respect your comment on "beauty of sound".

But from personal experience I would say there is a way around that. Don't accept the settings recommended by the hearing aid manufacturers. Individual hearing loss is in fact too individual for a "one size fits all" solution.

The hearing aids I've owned (two different models over the years) both allowed for up to four customized settings of the digital variables. Assigning one of those settings for music listening I found that I needed to continue going back for adjustments to "fine tune" what I was hearing for it to resemble the musical tones I remembered from prior to my hearing loss. It required maybe a half-dozen tune ups before I was satisfied that listening to my system and live performances sounded natural again.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

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