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Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player

24.156.15.20
Posted on May 10, 2015 at 08:21:27
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 OK, so I've decided that I want to see what I'm missing, if anything, in my current system using a Canary Passive Pre. The system sounds great to me, but I have nothing to compare it to. My Yamaha CD player is only ordinary, so I'm looking to warm it up a bit. I would like to try a tube pre and I would like to stay close to $700-800 (new or used). This will only be used for my CD player and tuner. The other alternative is to buy a tubed CD player, but I'm not sure I can do this within my price range.

I've been looking online and haven't really found anything that fits the bill. Some are just too old and new ones seem to lack a pass thru. Also, I don't need a phono stage built in, but that wouldn't stop me if everything else was good.

I need three inputs (CD, tuner and one of them a pass thru for my phono stage) and a single output.

My turntable (modernized Sonographe SG-3 with a Sumiko Premier MMT arm) is run through an EAR 834P with a home-built CineMag SUT for LOMC carts, so I just need a pass thru (tape loop?) for this.

Any suggestions on models to look for would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am using a B&K Reference 200.2 solid state amp.

 

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RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 10, 2015 at 10:43:34
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2444
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 Spend an extra $200 and get a new one. This is a bargain,I have a 10 year old one and never any problem. The stuff is built to last !

 

Possibilities......., posted on May 10, 2015 at 12:32:42
Rick W
 The CJ pv11 on A'gon (click link) would warm things up. So would a Jolida 100 cdp, but I couldn't find one for sale. I own the Jolida and love it. IIRC it was around a grand at list price, but I paid $700 from Underwood Wally. I've owned a CJ pv10 (slightly modded w/phono section) for decades and the pv11 linked has a bit better parts.

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 10, 2015 at 12:34:49
Caucasian Blackplate
Industry Professional

Posts: 8313
Location: Seattle
Joined: June 18, 2004
 Don't use a tube preamp to "warm up" a CD player that you don't like. Get a digital source with a filter designed for audio playback (not a filter some engineer made to get fantastic specs on paper).

A tube preamp that "warms up" your digital source will just be adding distortion to cover up what you don't like, and it may not be very friendly to your analog sources.

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 10, 2015 at 15:35:49
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 BCR,

I was looking at that one yesterday. I'll definitely consider it as another 20% isn't really that big a deal.

Thanks!

 

RE: Possibilities......., posted on May 10, 2015 at 15:40:10
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Rick,

Nice find on the CJ. A bit over but well worth the consideration. I was looking at that Jolida CDP last year. I guess I should have bought one. That's what I really want.

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 10, 2015 at 15:50:27
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Point well taken. Do you have suggestions for a good CDP in my range with the appropriate sound?

Thanks!

 

Agree With Caucasian Blackplate, posted on May 10, 2015 at 17:53:10
Luminator
Audiophile

Posts: 7331
Location: Bay Area
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Get the best source(s) you can.

With CD players, you'll need to make a checklist of features or characteristics which are important to you.

Do you want to stick with a CD changer? I don't think the Yamaha CDC-697 has a coaxial digital output, only Toslink. Therefore, if you get an outboard DAC, there's only so much fidelity you can squeeze out of Toslink.

Do you want a universal disc player, one which can play DVDs, Blu-Rays, and SACDs?

How quickly must your CD player operate? Do you need a full-featured remote, and one which works from all over the room? Do you need balanced XLR analog outputs? Do you need a fixed analog output of lower voltage? Do you need a large display? Do you need all four time modes? Do you care if the CD player has a fixed powercord?

Do you care what the CD player looks like? Do you favor drawers, slot, or a top-loader?

Do you need a one-box CD player, which also sports digital inputs?

How many CDs do you have, and how important are they, and any future CDs you would obtain?

Once you've answered the above, then you can narrow down the choices, and then investigate sound quality matters.

But Caucasian Blackplate offers wise advice. The amp/preamp should provide as clean a window into the music, relay the source info to your Maggies. Asking the amp/preamp to color the sound is a well-worn path to audio hell. When I used to do that, I just could have spent less, and gotten a graphic equalizer.

The Audiophiles' DJ,
-Lummy The Loch Monster

p.s.: if you go to my homepage, you can search the tags for Rotel, and find my posts about the Rotel RCC-1055 CD changer. For what it is, it's pretty good, especially when I sub in a Synergistic Research Quantum Red or Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme after-market fuse (20mm slow-blow 0.5A).

 

RE: Agree With Caucasian Blackplate, posted on May 10, 2015 at 18:17:55
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Luminator,

Thanks for the advise. I guess I'm starting to get the picture. I'll just be chasing my tail. The truth is that I hardly listen to CD's and I was looking for a reason to do so. I have a couple of hundred of them, but only a couple of dozen that I care about and no SACD's. It's probably not worth the effort to make them sound better, when I really prefer to listen to LP's.

I'll have to ponder this a while longer. This was an all-of-a-sudden thing that I thought I would pursue but there are other things I could spend my money on, like more LP's. If there was a good, tubed CD player that was affordable and available, it might be worth the experiment.

Anyway, thanks again.

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 10, 2015 at 19:21:47
niws
Audiophile

Posts: 790
Location: Northeast
Joined: September 4, 2003
 I have seen used Quicksilver linestages go for $6-700. I'm very happy with mine. Also suggest you audition a Micromega dac or try some warm sounding interconnects such as Monster cable or Straightwire Chorus on your cd player.

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 10, 2015 at 19:23:37
Caucasian Blackplate
Industry Professional

Posts: 8313
Location: Seattle
Joined: June 18, 2004
 Are there any hifi shops close by? (Maybe you can listen to a bunch of different ones, or perhaps there's a used Hifi shop close by)

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 10, 2015 at 19:29:28
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Nice to know if I decide to go that way.

Thanks!

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 10, 2015 at 19:30:59
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 No, I live in Flagstaff, AZ. Too small for a real audio shop.

I'd have to make an effort to go to Phoenix and I'm not sure there are any decent ones there either. I'll check as that's definitely an option.

 

You Could Be In For Pleasant Surprises, posted on May 10, 2015 at 20:16:54
Luminator
Audiophile

Posts: 7331
Location: Bay Area
Joined: December 11, 2000



I got to hear CDs during the summer of 1986. My dad's coworker had a Panasonic portable. I'm pretty sure the first disc I heard was something from Andreas Vollenweider. That piqued my interest. I began to see record clubs offering CDs. In the Fall of '86, Sony had this promotion, where, if you purchased a Sony CD player, you could send in the UPC code, and get 5 free CDs from, I believe, Columbia Music House. And if I'm not mistaken, one ad featured Genesis monkeying around behind a studio console.

I don't know about other markets, but here in San Francisco, by the end of 1986, record stores stopped stocking vinyl, and loaded up on cassettes and CDs, which then came in long boxes. I got my first CD player in April '87, when I was a high school sophomore. From the get-go, it was more convenient, and hands-down superior to my record and cassette players.

In 1987, my high school classmates first had to get a Walkman. Then they started getting CD players. The CD medium truly added to the pop music explosion of the late-80s.

Obviously, I was well aware of the Stereotypical Audiophiles and their stinky attitude and bigotry toward CD. Sadly, those negative biases steadfastly remain.

Anyway, in those 80s, popular music from the 60s was called "Oldies." Even back then, I did not like that moniker. Fast forward to 92-93, my senior year at UC Santa Cruz. My Adcom GTP-400 was able to pull in an "Oldies" station from Central California, perhaps Soledad. My housemates and I loved the variety of 60s and early-70s that station played. As much as we loved sitting in that college apartment, and listening to music, the Turtles' "Happy Together" made us feel as though we were with dates at the Boardwalk, and perhaps during a time before the earthquake had wiped out Santa Cruz.

On one warm and sunny afternoon, the Ronettes' "Be My Baby" came blasting through the radio. Right then and there, we had that crystal realization about why Brian Wilson championed this song as a pop masterpiece. It inspired us to go out, and buy CDs of "Oldies."

Understand that the 60s were before we were born. When we did get those "Oldies" CDs, the music made us feel as though the ghosts of UCSC's original students, the real hippies, were there with us.

As I've said about amps and preamps, who cares if it's got tubes, transistors, paper, rock, or scissors? When we audiophiles do these silly tubes vs. solid state debates, we are not seeing the forest for the trees.

In the Spring '93 quarter, one of my last classes was American Popular Music. The professor had his TA go up to the podium, turn on a recording device built into a keyboard, and make random noises. The TA then played back his recording. The professor then asked the class, "Is that music?"

Silence.

Finally, one male student shouted, "Fuck yeah!"

The professor nodded his approval. Right then and there, he shot down TAS' idiotic canard about "real music in real space." ...And I enjoyed those hard-panned stereo recordings of the 60s even more.

There are myriad CD players in the $700-$800 range. And, if you scour the used market, you have many more to choose from.

Of the tubed CD players I've reviewed, the Eastern Electric Minimax CD was the cheapest, the EAR Acute the most expensive. The former, which used two 6922s, was actually a lot of fun. But it has a high analog output voltage. That is incompatible with systems in the small rooms I have.

Of course, the other avenue you can take, is to rip your CDs to some kind of network storage.

I know many audiophiles, for whom CD is not a primary source. Their sub-$1000 CD players can be kind of old. Off the top of my head, I think some of the brands they have include Anthem, Arcam, CAL, Cambridge Audio, Emotiva, Marantz, Music Hall, Musical Fidelity, NAD, Parasound, Rotel, Oppo, Rega, and Sony. If we put aside our Stereotypical Audiophile bias against the CD medium, many of these CD players do not sound bad, and actually do a credible job of bringing the music to us. Plenty of audiophiles e-mail me, telling me how surprised they are, at just how good their CDs can be. It's just that they needed to overcome that SA bias, and find the right CD playback gear.

Yep, there's a lot to choose from. That can be intimidating, but it's better to have lots to choose from, than too few :-)

p.s.: if you haven't done so already, get your existing cables onto a proper cable burn-in device. It's one of the most cost-effective things in all of audio. When we use these devices, we unlock cables' true potential. And once that happens, we often discover that those cables, no matter how much use they had received, were choking off our existing gear's performance. So if you ever head into Phoenix, you could contact Audio Excellence AZ's Alan Kafton, and ask him how much it is to Cook your cables.

 

RE: You Could Be In For Pleasant Surprises, posted on May 10, 2015 at 21:47:57
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 You know, it's funny that I can easily sit down and listen to a CD as I don't find the sonic differences all that great. My analogue end is just a lot better than my digital end.

I really like listening to LP's for the same reasons I still shoot large format film cameras and spend the nights out under the stars with my telescopes. I like the process, which is very soothing for me. Listening to a CD is like looking at a photograph of a deep sky object instead of seeing it for myself thru a telescope. The same for my photography. I can take a great picture with a digital DSLR just like I can with my 4x5 camera, but in the end, it's about the process and having a film negative or transparency instead of a bunch of zeros and ones on a hard drive. Dropping a needle onto a record and sitting back with the album cover in my hand is the process that I enjoy.

I have a lot of really good music on CD, but it seems like the only time they get play is when my wife and I are doing something else besides just listening to music and we need some background, or when company is over and I can put 5 CD's in the player and hit start.

I have good cables and they have three years on them with a few hundred hours of burn-in time, so I don't think that's part of the problem.

I've really gotten into classical and jazz music over the last 5 years just after I upgraded my analogue chain. The vast majority of music that I have bought in those genres is on vinyl which feeds my soul better.

I really don't know what the answer is, I'll just have to think about it a bit more.

Thanks for all your input.

 

RE: You Could Be In For Pleasant Surprises, posted on May 10, 2015 at 22:09:37
kkak66
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: Florida
Joined: April 25, 2000
 Your post is very interesting, I grew up in the late fifties and 60's and the music was great. All kinds of music playing, even a lot of instrumentals. The 50's was great, the British Invansion really started the ball rolling. I know there is good music out there but I prefer to listin to all the old stuff before the 80's, but do enjoy the 80's too. Thanks for your insite, with screaming I don't even listen to CD much.

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 11, 2015 at 06:00:49
Grinnell
Audiophile

Posts: 709
Location: Front Range
Joined: December 23, 2007
 Arizona Hi Fi talk to Bill G

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 11, 2015 at 06:10:39
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Flagstaff! Then you are just out side of Sedona and Scottsdale. there has to be some high end audio boutiques in that area.

I'm using a Marantz NA7004 streaming player. It also uses a DAC. Could be an option. Buy the transport and streamer and you can have the best of both worlds. Streaming music and a great CDP.

But I agree with all of the above. If you enjoy CD's then find a good CDP. Remember - your music BEGINS at the source!!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought.

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 11, 2015 at 07:09:42
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Thanks for the contact.

 

RE: Looking for new/used tube preamp for CD player, posted on May 11, 2015 at 07:17:47
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Airtime,

Thanks for the DAC/transport combo suggestion. This definitely provides more opportunities.

Tubed DAC with a nice transport...

Anyone know who makes a good CD transport?

 

Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 12, 2015 at 06:19:52
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9176
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 Use your Yamaha as a transport and get the Monarchy DIP + NM24 DAC and you will have a killer sounding source for not much money.

 

RE: Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 12, 2015 at 08:12:37
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Thanks Morricab. Looks like a possibility. Most of this digital stuff is way over my head. I get that the DIP Combo up-rezzes the CD and resets the timing and that the MN24 acts as a tube preamp, but it doesn't look like it has a pass thru for my analogue system. I guess I could run everything thru the Canary Passive as I do now.

I think I have started to over complicate my life! ;-)

 

RE: Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 12, 2015 at 12:17:23
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9176
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 It does have one analog input that you could run your phonostage through the DACs built in preamp.

Or you can use the DAC outputs and not use the built-in preamp with your Canary handling the DAC + phono.

You have both choices with the Monarchy and can decide what sounds the best.

 

RE: Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 12, 2015 at 13:42:09
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Thanks for the explanation!

 

RE: Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 12, 2015 at 16:06:17
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15518
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Did you buy a new cd player or a new Pre-amp?

 

RE: Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 13, 2015 at 06:40:33
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Neither yet. I am trying to figure out which way to go. The simplest so far would be to try one of Yaqin's tube CD players. Then I'm considering going outside my budget to save for an Oppo.

It seems to be an agreement here that my Yamaha CD player is what it is and no good preamp will save it.

There are plenty of good suggestions to eliminate the CD player completely and go with a music server (the Oppo would do this as well) and rip my CD's to a hard drive with my computer and be done with playing CD's.

Still pondering life...

 

RE: Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 13, 2015 at 12:19:31
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9176
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 The Monarchy DIP + DAC are superior to both of these other options. I have a friend who had an Oppo and he dumped for a Monarchy after hearing mine. The Monarchy was also far superior to his Weiss 202 DAC.

 

RE: Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 13, 2015 at 14:55:49
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Noted, thanks!

 

RE: Don't do it, change the source first, posted on May 14, 2015 at 06:23:57
ydavid
Audiophile

Posts: 194
Joined: December 14, 2005
 Buying a tube preamp to warm up a digital source is an expensive mistake that I tried and it did not really work. If it is warm enough to change the sound of your CD player, your vinyl may sound too warm and slow. If you ever change another component in the system that leans to the dark side you can end up with an unmusical dark system. Tube preamps are great, but you have to get the source right first to get the most out of them. Try a Marantz CD or Arcam CD player. Otherwise search Digital asylum for warm DAC recs.

 

RE: Don't do it, change the source first, posted on May 14, 2015 at 06:51:32
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Thanks, ydavid. I have heeded the advice here and given up on the preamp idea. I'm looking at a new CD player, a Marantz SA-8005 or the Yaqin SD 33A or the Yaqin SD 35A. I really like the idea of the tubed Yaqin, even though reports on the SA-8005 say is is warm as well. Still pondering...

 

RE:Don't go by reviews, trust your ears, posted on May 14, 2015 at 07:52:22
ydavid
Audiophile

Posts: 194
Joined: December 14, 2005
 The key is to find a way to have a listen before you buy. The last thing you want is to buy new player player and then realize that your you like your Yamaha better. Marantz has several online retailers that will give you a 30 day trial at home. Music direct is great to work with and have reps that know their stuff and will not steer you wrong.

 

RE:Don't go by reviews, trust your ears, posted on May 14, 2015 at 07:56:34
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 Thanks. I do like to work with Music Direct.

 

RE: Don't do it, change the source first, posted on May 17, 2015 at 11:51:50
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 ydavid,

I just re-read your post and realized that you made the comment of a warm preamp overly affecting my tubed phono stage. That was the idea of having a pass thru that does not go thru the preamp's circuitry.

Still looking at options.

Thanks again.

 

RE: Monarchy Audio NM24 DAC, posted on May 17, 2015 at 22:38:27
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 morricab,

After reading more about the Monarchy, I'm confused a bit. It states in the manual that running my phono stage into line input of the M24 will bypass the DAC, and only run thru the "preamp circuitry". Is this a true bypass, or will it process my EAR 834P's signal again? This isn't clear. Can you clarify this for me? If not, I'll need to contact the manufacturer.

Thanks

 

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