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How much would I have to spend to do better than a Yamaha M4?

70.139.57.6
Posted on April 27, 2015 at 17:51:29
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I've been a vintage gear head for a while and had an awful lot of fun. Its a great aspect of this hobby and I don't regret it at all. But the older I get the fussier I am and the less tolerant I am for fussy gear. I've decided to move to current generation gear. The last hold out is my trusty yamaha M4 which I love and has treated me very well but is fussy. I kinda don't think I could get better than it for any reasonable money so I may just live with the fussiness which isn't that bad.

My speakers are 92 db Focal 836Vs. So what price am I looking at to replace it with something as good or better that is either new or at least relatively new?

An inmate recommended a while back the link below. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks!

Nate


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

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RE: How much would I have to spend to do better than a Yamaha M4?, posted on April 27, 2015 at 18:18:40
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 My advice would be to keep your M-4 until you find another power amplifier you like better. I would recommend trying a Parasound Halo A23, which is basically the same power as your M-4 and sells for $995. I have no idea whether it will sound as good, but it wouldn't surprise me if it sounded better. I own the larger A21 and I really love it. In my opinion, it sounds as good or better than my old Yamaha B-2x, but I never compared them directly in an A/B fashion. Anyway, I would recommend Parasound.

Good luck,
John Elison

 

I took your advice from a while ago, posted on April 27, 2015 at 18:27:06
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 and got the parasound halo P-5. It is very very good and an even better value! In fact, it is an exceptional value! I hesitate regarding the A23 because the specifications are not as good as the M4. Although for that matter neither was the A21 which from what I read sounds wonderful. Of course I really don't understand what is important for a power amp regarding specs.

The A23 and the DIY idea are fairly close in price. I'm handy with a soldering iron and can read a schematic just fine. I've built a few phono amps and am comfortable with that level of a project. Do you think the A21 would be better than the DIY?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Nate


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

RE: How much would I have to spend to do better than a Yamaha M4?, posted on April 27, 2015 at 20:01:03
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Nate-

consult Galen Carol there in SATX. He is the best in the business.

 

RE: I took your advice from a while ago, posted on April 27, 2015 at 20:54:28
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I'm glad you're happy with the P5.

I guess what you're referring to regarding the specs is that Parasound has rated distortion in the hundredths of percent whereas the Yamaha M-4 is rated in the thousandths of percent. I don't know that it makes any difference. I think the only way to tell is to compare both in a listening test. That's why I suggested keeping the M-4 until you know whether a new amp sounds as good or better.

> Do you think the A21 would be better than the DIY?

I don't really know. I have no experience with tube equipment. However, the harmonic distortion spec seems to be 1% if that means anything. Again, it might not mean anything because a lot of people really like the sound of tube equipment.

Sorry I can't be of more help!

Good luck,
John Elison

 

In addition to the A23, I would consider this one., posted on April 28, 2015 at 12:21:35
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014




It's $100 LESS than the Parasound.






Opus 33 1/3

 

that is a lot of amp for little price, posted on April 28, 2015 at 13:03:12
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 Have you heard one? Their website sure does read well!


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

RE: How much would I have to spend to do better than a Yamaha M4?, posted on April 28, 2015 at 20:54:09
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 The Emotiva would be quite different from the Yamaha, and, especially tubes. A lot of people describe Dmo as neutral, I find them just lacking in musicality.

You really didn't mention a budget, I was impressed by Merrill amps, I heard his monoblocks on 108 dB $40k horns and it sounded great IMO. You can pick up his entry stereo amp for around $2500.00. He did mention in the audition he has a lending program so no issue with trying one. I'm not affiliated, just a product I was really impressed by.

The Parasound Halo is also a good suggestion. If you are on a budget Marantz has a good performing stereo amp somewhere around $700.00.

Another killer amp is ATI, either the 2000 or 3000 series. ATI builds a lot of high end companies amps but they also offer their own. One consideration you'll need a 20 amp outlet. They are really powerful and sound that way. They use the same chassi for all amps 2 to 7 channels, so you could expand down the road by adding amp boards.

Vincent Audio Is another option if looking for a more tube sound but they are powerful, a strong bass.

 

Olddude55 has its little brother, the XPA-200. He likes it. /nt\, posted on April 29, 2015 at 04:45:00
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014




Opus 33 1/3

 

No budget really in mind yet, posted on April 29, 2015 at 10:56:56
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 My M4 still functions very well. The M4 has (for some bizarre reason) pots on the back to control volume for each channel. I can't imagine why you would need that. Every now and again a channel will drop out slightly and a quick adjustment of the pots brings it back to normal. This isn't a big deal, I'm just ready to "graduate" from vintage gear. I enjoyed vintage gear for so long because it is a fun part of the stereo hobby and you could really trade up quality/dollar. I make better money now and have lost my patience with vintage fussiness so I am replacing my gear piece by piece over the previous and next months/years. Really the last part I need to replace is the power amp.

But, budget specifically, If the parasound A23 is a good upgrade over the M4 at $1000, I may just do that. If I'm not going to get the sq of an M4 out of anything under $2000-$3000 I'll probably save up for it and get it within a few months or wait for a great deal. If I have to spend more than that I'll probably just ride the M4 until it dies and deal with the problem then.

Power amps to me seem unnecessarily expensive. I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I know much about manufacturing, but a preamp or speakers strike me as far more challenging to engineer and produce than a power amp, yet the power amps get the real premium.

I am not familiar with the brands you mentioned. I'll need to do some digging around on them, but that is why I posted the question!

I have a quick questions about the Taranis you suggested. It is a lot of amp. I don't really need 400 Watts. My M4 produces 120Ws and that is plenty. Although I've read it does much better than that. Do you think that 400Ws is really something I need? Do you have any cheaper ideas in the 100-200W range?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

loved my ATI ..., posted on April 29, 2015 at 13:36:05
TBone
Audiophile

Posts: 4197
Joined: April 5, 2000
 long sold, but that over-achieving amp competed well alongside my prior Rotel mono-blocks, the excellent SIM W5 and my current Classe DR3 mono-blocks. For the money, it was easily the best bang for the buck amp I've ever owned. Still going strong in my friends system ...


 

RE: No budget really in mind yet, posted on April 29, 2015 at 16:36:12
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 Just because you have 400 watts don't mean you have to use them, I look at it as more headroom or reserve if needed. You can audition the amp, I was really impressed by what I heard from it's big brothers. Also, being Class D they shouldn't take up much real estate, although I haven't seen any dimensions published. Class D also runs cool.

You can check Audiogon for a used Pass Labs X250 or 250.5, depending, probably $3k and up. Of course, they weigh 100 lbs but they are incredible, if I say so myself.

I'm staying with solid state suggestions as tubes would need a bit of maintenance. It sounds like your Yamaha needs some one to go in and just clean the pots. If you've never had any work done on it before it could need some new caps.

What other brands of gear are you using now? You want to have synergy in your system.

 

RE: No budget really in mind yet, posted on April 29, 2015 at 17:08:34
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 Yeah, I have moved into a phase where I don't want fuss, I just want to listen.

I have a VPI Traveler and a hotrodded technics, a DIY Boozhound phono pre and head amp, a DIY bugle phono pre, a Parasound Halo P5, the yamaha M4 and Focal 836V. The cables I use are Petra and some milspec stuff I came across which are really pretty good. I also have some Tara labs RCAs and Tara labs RSC prime 1000 speaker cables but am using the milspec cables for now.

I've read some great stuff about Wyred 4 Sound. Do you have any thoughts on their products?

Thanks!

Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

RE: No budget really in mind yet, posted on April 29, 2015 at 17:31:26
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 I have not heard Wired 4 Sound. If it was me I think with the P5 I'd first try the A23 or 21. If it was really me, it would be the A21, can't have too much power, LOL. I bet your hesitation is the gain controls though :). My second option would be to give the Taranis a listen, if it's smooth enough for super efficient horns it should be good with the Focal, Focals I've heard have been a lot of fund. I personally like same brand amp/pre, typically good synergy as they come from the same family.

Gain controls are good if biamping, to help balance gain or response between two amps, as well as bring the power down if using very high efficient speakers.

 

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