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Rogue Audio vs BAT

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Posted on April 20, 2015 at 12:27:08
samzx12
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Location: Kentucky
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I currently have a Rogue Audio Tempest II. Have had fun tube rolling for the last 3 years or so but thinking of buying a BAT VK-55. I thought about sending the Tempest back to Rogue and get the Magnum upgrade (approx $750) or do you think the VK-55 would be a significant upgrade over the Rogue. My speakers are pretty efficient so don't need tons of power. Speakers are Tyler Acoustics Decade 4.

 

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RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 20, 2015 at 14:26:20
fantja
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I am interested in reading more about Rogue vs B.A.T., as well.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 21, 2015 at 06:28:13
airtime
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Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
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A generality in audio.

A good stereo needs good parts in the right positions. So any upgrade of quality components is always favored even over a more expensive piece of audio.

So what I'm saying is you will get more bang for your buck with upgrading parts. Now I have never auditioned either piece. So again this is a general statement.

Also if you really like the Rogue and have been happy with them - why screw up a good thing?

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 21, 2015 at 06:45:15
AbeCollins
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I have no direct experience with the BAT and Rogue pieces you're asking about but I have owned the BAT VK30SE linestage and the VK-200 SS amp. Both were excellent but a bit 'dark' sounding overall. Very robust, rich, deep, and powerful but not much top end. Of course these pieces are from another era and I couldn't tell you what BAT gear 'sounds like' these days.

I'm very pleased with my Rogue Cronus Magnum with KT120 tubes. I've had a few other amps come and go over the years but I'm hanging on to the Rogue. And BTW the best SS integrated I've owned so far has to be the Ayre AX-7e. I've been listening to it for a couple months now and it sounds great. I like it better than the vacuum tube ARC VSi-60 but if push came to shove and I had to sell it all and keep just one, I would keep the Rogue.



 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 21, 2015 at 08:07:14
morricab
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I would expect the BAT to sound significantly better. I have not heard the BAT VK55 but I have heard the VK60 and VK75 and they are very dynamic, great tone and have really good transparency. Imaging and soundstaging are top notch as well.

Now, Abe above mentions that the VK200 sounds a bit dark...I would agree with him as I owned one as well. The BAT tube amps do not sound that way.

The VK55 is a less ambitious design, primarily in the power supply, but still should deliver very good sound. As with everything though an audition is mandatory unless you don't mind the try and sell approach if you don't like it.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 21, 2015 at 08:09:58
RGA
Reviewer

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Rogue Audio hits above its weight but it's far better that you yourself audition a given amp on your speakers because I highly doubt anyone here has heard your specific Rogue AND the specific BAT on your specific speakers. The BAT may be better but then again it may just be more expensive - certain tube amplifiers using certain tube types are simply more expensive to make because they may require beefier power supplies which costs them more - but the actual sound may not be superior.

Personally I prefer SET amps and I would look at Line Magnetic's 518IA or (~$4000) or models from Melody Valve Audio, or Triode and Co would be up on my list even with 87-89dB speakers.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 21, 2015 at 12:06:22
Mendel
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I upgraded my Rogue Stereo 90 with V-cap and Mundorf Supreme capacitors, better diodes, resistors and wiring. The result was a significant improvement in the sound. Not sure what the Magnum upgrade entails, but if you like the Rogue I would upgrade it. Cheaper than getting a new amp that you may or may not like better.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 21, 2015 at 12:14:49
Mike B.
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I would think the first question is do you have balanced components? BAT is just that. They will accommodate single ended components with a adaptor but you lost the advantage of balanced circuits.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 22, 2015 at 16:39:55
fantja
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I concur- Abe. The ARC integrated is very easily trumped by the Rogue!

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 05:22:16
samzx12
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Fantja I've never heard the ARC 60 but what gets me is ARC's innards or lack of. What I mean is ever look inside some ARC pieces? Not much to them. I would have a problem spending my money on some of their gear as they don't weight anything. I am no electrical engineer but when I see a nice looking chassis and hardly any electrical components in it but a small circuit board I am having a real issue laying down my money on a piece that hardly weighs anything lol. Just my 2 cents.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 05:44:16
samzx12
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Posts: 378
Location: Kentucky
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Mendel I do like the Rogue and pondered whether to upgrade it to Magnum status. I've had it for approx 3 years and you know how this hobby is? Time for a change. I've had fun tube rolling with the Rogue :) A BAT VK55 popped up on Agon and I borrowed this amp a few years ago and loved it but I have no preamp right now. Of course I could purchase another one but along with that comes more powercords and interconnects.
However, I just ordered a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium integrated from Kevin Deal as I think I'm ready for a change. Hopefully I made the right decision as the PrimaLuna has garnered some seriously good reviews on Positive Feedback, Stereophile and The Absolute Sound.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 06:15:16
Mendel
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The PrimaLuna looks like an interesting amp samzx. Let us know how you like it. The one thing that would bother me is that the PrimaLuna uses 12au7 drivers (I think) instead of the 6SN7 drivers in the Rogue and I have (probably you also) too much invested in 6SN7s. Much prefer them to 12au7s don't know why Rogue switch to them in their new amps.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 06:19:15
airtime
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I still think you can get more for your money with improved parts.

How old is the OP amp again?

It could be a consideration to have it upgraded and tweaked out by Mike Samra or Jim McShane. Two guys that can really do an amp RIGHT!!!!!

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 07:08:22
samzx12
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Airtime I am not sure how old or the build date of my Tempest 2. I can find out from Rogue or look on the unit to see (if its there). I am guessing around 2009-2010. The Tempest 2 evolved into the Tempest 3 and currently The Pharoah which is a Class D amp with a tubed preamp. There is no doubt I can get better performance if I sent it back to Rogue for the Magnum upgrade. Never heard of Mike Samra but Jim McShane of course I have. I have tube rolled quite a bit in the Tempest but don't have a fortune wrapped up in tubes. The 6SN7's made the biggest difference in the amps sound. Mark at Rogue did send me some KT90's which also improved slam over the KT88's but the 6SN7's had the most impact.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 07:29:09
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
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Go over to the vintage forum and look for Mike. Don't be worried about dealing with Mike. He is honest, straight forward and a damn nice generous guy!!!! Also he will not steer you down a "long bad road" burning up your time, money and your amp.

In the end, all good tube amps are dependent on design, iron and good quality parts. Nothing else (like hype) matters. With Rogue you already have to first two and most important parts covered.

Email mike or just post over at the vintage forum. He's ALWAYS there giving free advice. The man really does love doing this stuff.

He rebuilt my Sherwood S-5000. And about a thousand other amps as well. He knows his stuff.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 07:49:16
fantja
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Posts: 15486
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W/ the ARC integrated amps, you have not missed anything. There are much better pieces that offer a better bang for your buck.

Now, separates is another story. You must audition the Reference 5SE pre-amp- very fine indeed!

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 08:16:06
samzx12
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I'm not sure either Mendel but maybe its cheaper? The Dialogue uses 12au7. Three per channel. I do have a few $$$ wrapped up in 6SN7's but not an obscene amount. I will probably hang to them in case I get another piece that uses them.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 09:32:01
samzx12
Audiophile

Posts: 378
Location: Kentucky
Joined: November 6, 2002
Thanks for the information Airtime. I appreciate it. I will venture over to the vintage forum. Better quality parts would be my next step because I think I have the tubes covered.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 23, 2015 at 09:42:11
samzx12
Audiophile

Posts: 378
Location: Kentucky
Joined: November 6, 2002
A friend of mine has a VT-100 MKII I think it is and it sounds wonderful. Very powerful and that good tubey sound. He also has a ARC preamp but not sure which one but I do know its high $$$$.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 24, 2015 at 07:57:38
AbeCollins
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I agree about the ARC VT100mkII. It was a powerful and full-bodied sounding amp that performed nicely with my Thiel and Tannoy speakers. However, I couldn't quite warm up to the ARC LS16mkII or LS25mkII linestages. The Ref series are possibly much better.



 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on April 25, 2015 at 19:25:00
samzx12
Audiophile

Posts: 378
Location: Kentucky
Joined: November 6, 2002
Abe a buddy of mine has the ARC LS-20 with the super tube. It is supposed to be a mini Ref 3. I haven't heard his system in quite sometime but tonight I went to his house to listen to his Revel F-32's. He has a Cary 200.5 amp, ARC LS-20 Pre and Classe C-300 CDP. I have to say the ARC sounded pretty darn good. Matter of fact his system sounded excellent.The F32's pumped out some damn good bass for two 6.5" woofers. The Cary amp is very nice and has a lot of power, snap and overall warmth which I like. The F32's also sound smooth, detailed and non-fatiguing for a speaker with a small footprint.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on May 11, 2015 at 06:50:31
samzx12
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Posts: 378
Location: Kentucky
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Mendel from my understanding the reason for using the 12AU7's is it improves the dynamic range or at least thats what I read. A quick review of the Dialogue Premium is even though it has half the power of the Rogue it sounds much more powerful. Also hate to say it the PL beats the hell out of the Rogue in pretty much every department so far. I only have maybe 25 hrs on it, but even in stock form it sounds very very nice. I haven't even put the KT120's in yet.

 

RE: Rogue Audio vs BAT , posted on May 11, 2015 at 08:51:56
+1 on the Mikey Samra recommendation.







 

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