The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out.

Good for them! They are a smart/1st class outfit and deserve success!...N/T, posted on March 5, 2015 at 13:23:15
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31879 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	N/T "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

Had I been looking for an integrated amp.., posted on March 5, 2015 at 15:10:27
standingstones Audiophile Posts: 218 Location: Pennsylvania Joined: February 14, 2005	This new Parasound integrated amp looks so tempting. Unfortunately I purchased a new tube amp and preamp last year.

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 6, 2015 at 03:38:17
fantja Audiophile Posts: 15524 Location: Alabama Joined: September 11, 2010	Very nice looking gear.

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 6, 2015 at 05:09:29
jsm71 Audiophile Posts: 1123 Location: Cincinnati OH Joined: June 16, 2011	If I ever wanted to simplify this would be a contender.

Guess they gotta prod those Chinese factory workers. /nt\, posted on March 6, 2015 at 05:43:36
Opus 33 1/3 Audiophile Posts: 4184 Location: D.C. Area Joined: February 19, 2014	Opus 33 1/3

RE: Guess they gotta prod those Chinese factory workers. /nt\, posted on March 6, 2015 at 07:16:17
The Duke Audiophile Posts: 536 Location: New Jersey Joined: March 6, 2001	Isn't Parasound stuff made in ROC (Taiwan)?

I hope the bored removes this offensive, racist post!, posted on March 6, 2015 at 09:02:42
Tadlo Audiophile Posts: 1925 Location: midwest Joined: March 8, 2003	Cant' we keep racist insults out of your discussions of amplifiers!

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 6, 2015 at 09:18:31
Rick58 Audiophile Posts: 1118 Location: No. California Joined: January 24, 2001	IIUC, it IS the P 5 preamp (not a simplified version of it) plus ... ??? something between an A23 and A21 amp. Tasty!

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 6, 2015 at 09:30:02
shodulik Audiophile Posts: 121 Location: Cleveland, OH Joined: June 10, 2002	Keep wishing Parasound would make the volume knobs larger on their recent preamps and integrateds.

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 6, 2015 at 14:21:52
Gary Audiophile Posts: 1297 Location: New York, NY Joined: April 21, 2000	I really like the look of this amp. I'm not giving up my Rogue Cronus Magnum for it, but if I were in the market I'd seriously consider a purchase. Thanks for the post.

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 6, 2015 at 20:00:44
AudioSoul Audiophile Posts: 4594 Location: north central AZ Joined: July 9, 2005	So how much does this big hit cost?

$2500 NT, posted on March 6, 2015 at 21:26:11
marc g. Audiophile Posts: 3330 Location: New Orleans Joined: October 14, 1999	. voolston - audiophile by day, music lover by night!

RE: Guess they gotta prod those Chinese factory workers. /nt\, posted on March 7, 2015 at 00:16:44
Trouser Trout Audiophile Posts: 286 Location: New England Joined: August 25, 2010	Probably held up cause of the dock strike. Don't blame the Chinese, they would be happy to make 1/16 of a long shore man's salary.

Whatever meds you are on . . . , posted on March 7, 2015 at 05:36:39
Opus 33 1/3 Audiophile Posts: 4184 Location: D.C. Area Joined: February 19, 2014	ain't working. Opus 33 1/3

Has anyone heard one and ..., posted on March 7, 2015 at 14:50:27
reelsmith. Audiophile Posts: 13134 Location: CT Joined: June 7, 2005 Contributor Since: January 19, 2010	...how good is the phono section ? I note with interest the responses below that call this unit "good looking". You can't argue taste, but to me its kinda' boring looking, bordering on ugly. Dean. reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 8, 2015 at 03:30:22
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	I would never buy an amplifier containing JFETs and am not too keen on mos-fets either.

Or maybe...., posted on March 8, 2015 at 07:11:28
rlw Audiophile Posts: 3347 Location: Near West Palm Bch, FL Joined: August 29, 2006	He's found the chink in your armor? Sorry, couldn't resist...[g] -RW-

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 8, 2015 at 09:28:27
A.Wayne Audiophile Posts: 2527 Location: Front row center Joined: November 30, 2011	No J-fets for disbeliever ....., i bet it wipes the floor with the Rotel . Lol ...

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 8, 2015 at 13:48:05
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Very unlikely

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 8, 2015 at 14:58:18
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	Likely or NOT? I had an RB1070 which I must say is much inferior to my A23(s) The RB? NO 4 ohm power rating and the bridged mono of 330 implies a 4ohm rating which WOULD be 165x2 with 8ohm power at 125 or 130 a side. Not too indicative of a robust PS. Too much is never enough

Interesting, posted on March 8, 2015 at 15:18:04
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37673 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	That rules out some of the very best preamps and power amps available. Good choice!

RE: Interesting,Disbeliever strikes again ....., posted on March 8, 2015 at 16:49:00
A.Wayne Audiophile Posts: 2527 Location: Front row center Joined: November 30, 2011	No J-fets, No MOSFETS, no TOOOBS , Electricity , well maybe ...:)

RE: Or maybe...., posted on March 9, 2015 at 00:06:33
charlief64 Audiophile Posts: 12 Location: The Beach, So. California Joined: April 8, 2004	Oh God, help me, but I can't resist either. "Chink in the armor" RoR

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 9, 2015 at 00:41:05
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Picture Guy, The Rotel 1552 Mk2 has a large case is very heavy for a 120 wpc Class AB amp, sounds very good therefore surely has a good power supply , I agree 4 ohm figure is not specified . It is not as smooth at HF as the far more expensive amps but still very acceptable as mentioned in the Absolute Sound review. I have yet to hear an amp with JFETs that I can listen to.

That is just...well dumb, posted on March 9, 2015 at 02:11:51
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9181 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	Seriously, now you are discounting solid state devices as well as tubes??? That leaves you with just bipolar transistors...doesn't it? Surely you cannot be serious that in your opinion ONLY bipolar transistors sound good in a circuit??? The LEAST linear of ALL amplification devices is your device of choice...LOL!!! Whatever floats your boat but it sure is a strange boat you are in.

RE: That is just...well dumb, posted on March 9, 2015 at 06:42:06
A.Wayne Audiophile Posts: 2527 Location: Front row center Joined: November 30, 2011	Nope, it also leaves him with IC's , he may like the sound of chip amplfiers.....

RE: That is just...well dumb, posted on March 9, 2015 at 08:41:20
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Go and audition the Arcam A49 .

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 9, 2015 at 10:02:56

pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008

Sorry.
No sale. The utter lack of any 4 ohm disclosure is to me, a red flag. Not even a rating for 8 ohm 'bridged' from which you could INFER the 4ohm power at 1/2 that rating. And as for weight? It is within range of the A23. In looking at the PICS of A23 vs the Rotel, It APPEARS the Parasound has a SLIGHTLY beefier tranformer. I'd love for rotel to disclose the VA rating of THEIR transformer.

As for JFETs? another chat for another day. I WILL say that if you were confronted with an unknown amp, and ONLY had its 'signiture' to go on, you'd have only probability to get your choice right.

Too much is never enough

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 9, 2015 at 10:06:54
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	The sound is more important than the spec.

right you are, posted on March 9, 2015 at 10:37:10
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9181 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	But aren't those just a collection of bipolar (or maybe they have FETs as well) transistors? Sure, its operating as a collective but it is still made of discrete transistors of some kind. For small signal opamps, some have bipolar, some have fet, some are mixed but for the power chips I don't know what is inside.

RE: That is just...well dumb, posted on March 9, 2015 at 10:48:07

morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005

Oh yes I am just dying to try an amp from a company where a Senior engineer is quoted:

"We considered having a volume control that went up to 11 - it really goes THAT loud!"

Whooo hooo!!! LOUD baby! Not sophisticated, not natural, not tonally accurate but LOUD¨!! Yeah!

Plus, they lie about the first 50 watts being a Class A amplifier:

"The A49’s output stage includes a proprietary error correction circuit that modulates the modest standing currents in the
output stage and ensures a near-constant output impedance for peak currents of up to about +/- 4 amps, corresponding to well over
50W in to 8 ohms. The A49 thus behaves exactly like a classical class A amplifier up to this power level in terms of performance
but without the heat penalty."

At best, it is a sliding Class A but for sure it doesn't have the heat sinks to maintain true Class A at 50 watts and it only consumes 220 watts for 50 watts output...this is far more efficient than true Class A and so there is no way this is really Class A...more marketing hype.

What is your point? It uses MOSFETs on the output. Do you like this amp or not? You just said you don't really like FET amps and then you want me to hear this amp, why?

It looks like it measures ok and even the distortion spectrum looks pretty good...but only listening tells the whole story.

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 9, 2015 at 10:51:37
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	Sure, but that cuts Both Ways. If you can't, in blind tests identify a JFET, than so what if it HAS 'em? And likewise, the Rotel RB-1070 was so poor at driving my panels that I couldn't WAIT to get it out of there. A 300$ lesson. Just no DRIVE. I suspect that had I ponied up for the RB1080, that may have stuck around for YEARS or even still be in service. Too much is never enough

Hmmm..., posted on March 9, 2015 at 11:05:35
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37673 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	Tomato amp vs. Pass Labs XS series. Yeah, that's a tough one!

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 9, 2015 at 11:33:13
noway Audiophile Posts: 425 Location: Canada Joined: August 28, 2007	Also had an RB 1070 and it was inferior to the Harman/Kardon HK 3485 receiver it replaced. And that was with easy to drive speakers.

RE: Hmmm... ROTEL....... errr not , posted on March 9, 2015 at 11:38:44
A.Wayne Audiophile Posts: 2527 Location: Front row center Joined: November 30, 2011	ROFL ...!!!!! Arcam uses Mosfets, Disbeliever must be sick by now ... :) Not a big Rotel fan , the last ones heard were used by a friend to run ML, they would shut off ( class-D) after 45 mins , pretty pricey too. Regards...

Inconvenient truths!, posted on March 9, 2015 at 12:14:37
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37673 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	Arcam uses Mosfets, Disbeliever must be sick by now ... :) Yeah the multi-rail "lifters" are MOSFETs. :)

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........, posted on March 9, 2015 at 14:19:30

A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011

You should get one disbeliever and step away from the Rotel......

http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,integrated-amplifiers,integr

RE: That is just...well dumb, posted on March 9, 2015 at 15:19:09
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Yes I find the Arcam Class G amp sounds very good otherwise I would not have bought one.

Find P 5 preamp review ..., posted on March 9, 2015 at 17:59:27

Rick58
Audiophile

Posts: 1118
Location: No. California
Joined: January 24, 2001

the integrated contains a P 5 preamp and a power amp sort of like the A23. Art reviewed the P 5 (see link) but didn't answer my questions at the end ...? I was pretty disappointed in his review (not the preamp, his methodology etc.), it seemed to lack thought about what he was doing with the preamp.

I got a P 7 instead, haven't even tried the phono section yet.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/parasound-halo-p-5-21-cha

RE: Find P 5 preamp review ..., posted on March 9, 2015 at 18:09:08
Rick58 Audiophile Posts: 1118 Location: No. California Joined: January 24, 2001	never mind ...

RE: Specs to die for Cab ...... , posted on March 9, 2015 at 18:57:50

A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011

Class-G to replace the tooobys and no clipping .... :)

http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/a49/Technical%20Notes/The_tec

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 10, 2015 at 00:12:10
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	I have only referred to the Rotel 1552 Mk 2 amplifier amplifier, other models are totally irrelevant, read the Absolute Sound review.

RE: Specs to die for Cab ...... , posted on March 10, 2015 at 00:33:13
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Thanks for the Tech info, I note the Arcam does contain mos-fets which are OK in a good design, I see no mention of FETs which I definately do not care for.

RE: Specs to die for Cab ...... , posted on March 10, 2015 at 01:26:56

pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008

Dis,
MOS fets are a type of FET.
Take it from a guy who worked in a discrete wafer fab for 15 years as a process guy.

You may have some objection with JFET devices, which I believe predate the MOS variety.

And while the WIKI, should you care to look, references the 'body' contact, the devices I'm most familiar with are the HEXFETS which use the 'bottom' of the transistor as the 'Drain' connection. The Gate and Source are from the TOP.

Too much is never enough

Ah, I see, it is your flavor of the month..., posted on March 10, 2015 at 02:13:26
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9181 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	Replacing, Job and then Rotel, more of the same...

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........, posted on March 10, 2015 at 02:15:12
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9181 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	Based on his post above, it sounds like he did get one...wonders never cease...he wouldn't touch FETs with a ten foot pole and then, lo and behold, he buys an amp with MOSFET outputs!! But that is OK, because the aren't JFETs you know...LOL!

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........, posted on March 10, 2015 at 02:37:48
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Had a strange experience with the mos-fet JOB 225 sounded very good with an Aurousal VS speaker but I did not like it with the latest updated version Acoustic Insight Phantom Source Floorstander. Fortunately the Arcam P49 with mos-fets sounds excellent with the PS.

RE: Specs to die for Cab ...... , posted on March 10, 2015 at 02:42:35
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Thanks for the info of course it is the JFETs that I do not like. Mos-Fets are good.

RE: Ah, I see, it is your flavor of the month..., posted on March 10, 2015 at 03:34:46
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Not more of the same Arcam G tech is superior to the Rotel & the JOB 225, you should listen to the Arcam before commenting on something you have not auditioned otherwise your comments are valueless.

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 10, 2015 at 06:30:47
davidbeinct Audiophile Posts: 182 Location: SE CT Joined: June 20, 2014	Looks like they actually updated the DAC portion. It can do DSD decoding, which my P5 cannot. If this had been available when I picked up my P-5 and A-23, it would've been hard not to go with it instead.

RE: Has anyone heard one and ..., posted on March 10, 2015 at 06:33:15
davidbeinct Audiophile Posts: 182 Location: SE CT Joined: June 20, 2014	I have a P-5, but it's my return to two-channel, and phono, so I don't really have a basis of comparison. Having said that, the MM section is sounding great to me and it got a glowing review in Stereophile. The MC section was not as well regarded in that review.

LOL!! It is more of the same!!!, posted on March 10, 2015 at 08:56:55

morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005

Let's see, small sliding bias...check (been there done that). Rail switching...check (been there done that). Marketing hype galore...check check check. The technical superiority is debateable and even if it were the case it would be irrelevant to listening. I will listen to it someday if I can be bothered but having heard dozens of similar amps I won't hold my breath for glory. I might even know a local dealer who has it...but if you can't hear what is wrong with these designs...well I guess it is a blessing for you.

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........, posted on March 10, 2015 at 09:08:12
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9181 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	Unusual speakers...never heard of them before. ARe the Jordan drivers run flat out (i.e. no crossover)? It doesn't really say in the description, which if stuffed full of hyperbole. If both Jordans are run full range then isn't there going to be cancellation issues making a combing effect? They don't look close enough and there are not enough of them to make an actual line source.

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........, posted on March 10, 2015 at 09:12:36
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9181 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	Reference 3a does something similar to these AI drivers by tailoring the shape of their driver so that there is no appreciable breakup mode and they can then run them flat out without crossover. They use doped woven carbon fiber though rather than metal. They call their profile hyper-exponential...like a horn flare actually.

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........, posted on March 10, 2015 at 11:16:14
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Phantom Source Floorstander TL speakers incorporate Jordan Eikona 2 full range drivers manufactured by Scanspeak,no Xover sound excellent TL cabinet design by Martin J King Quarter Wavlength Design

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........Phantom Floorstander, posted on March 10, 2015 at 12:14:49
A.Wayne Audiophile Posts: 2527 Location: Front row center Joined: November 30, 2011	Sounds like competition for the reference 3a ...... :)

RE: LOL!! It is more of the same!!!, posted on March 10, 2015 at 17:41:36

pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008

I have looked up cross sections of JFET and MOSFET transistors and I can pretty much guarantee that a fab set up for ONE could also manufacture the OTHER. All the layers, materials and dimensions look familiar from my days making HEXFETS. And IGBTs and FREDs. Not to mentions several experimentals I was involved in which never made it to production.

The stuff I worked on had the bottom of the die used as the drain. The gate and source were both connected from the TOP. I'll not get into any proprietary information, but the parts I worked on were very simple in that they had a minimal number of mask layers and some 'self aligning' features which also take the place of additional masking / photo / etch steps.

The bottom of the die as drain made good ohmic contact which gave a very LOW RdON. Resistance of the device when ON. For an audio amp? I suspect it helps keep DF low.

The difference, as they exist would need a curve tracer to fathom.
Too much is never enough

RE: LOL!! It is more of the same!!!, posted on March 10, 2015 at 20:58:35
A.Wayne Audiophile Posts: 2527 Location: Front row center Joined: November 30, 2011	Did you work with Wurcer ...... ??

RE: The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out., posted on March 10, 2015 at 21:48:04
Rick58 Audiophile Posts: 1118 Location: No. California Joined: January 24, 2001	ah, shoot. Oh well, you can still upgrade the pre and amp separately sometime. Wonder if they could update the DAC in the P 5? Probably a surface mount device ...

RE: LOL!! It is more of the same!!!, posted on March 11, 2015 at 00:53:37
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	Wurcer who? Sorry, not in my memory bank. Too much is never enough

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........, posted on March 11, 2015 at 12:56:02
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Reading the Arcam technical paper on the Class G A49/P49 amplifiers it states the output transistors are Bi-polars ,mos-fets are just used for very fast switching.

RE:This guy ..........., posted on March 11, 2015 at 14:58:17

A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011

Mr IC himself ........... :)

http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/30-2/e

RE:This guy ..........., posted on March 11, 2015 at 16:55:06

pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008

Sorry,
Never worked for Analogue Devices.
By the time I happened on the scene, say '73 or so, the fab I worked in was ALREADY a 3" fab which later upgraded to 4" or 5" silicon. The reason that's important is COSTS. It only costs a LITTLE more for processing 6" silicon while the OUTPUT in useable devices is nearly 4x that of a 3" wafer.
Later, at Western Digital (think hard drive) we built an All-New 6" fab which was an incredible machine.

Same work w/4x the output. What's not to like? Equipment is more expensive, but that's written off over time. Talk to the tax / accounting types for THAT aspect of the business.
Too much is never enough

RE: A49 looks like a nice unit ........, posted on March 12, 2015 at 02:38:25
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9181 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	You are right about the output transistors...I didn't see the specifics the first time I scanned through the technical white paper.

Amp/Preamp Asylum

The Parasound integrated is here - and sold out.

98.145.163.72