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Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva

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Posted on October 28, 2014 at 03:50:52
alley -kat
Audiophile

Posts: 282
Location: southeast missouri
Joined: August 7, 2003
 I've been thinking about getting a Parasound 21a and a Parasound P5 preamp to pair together as that seems to be the limit of my budget or, are there some Emotiva amp/preamp combinations that might be just as good or even better? The main priority will be music. Thanks!

 

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RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 28, 2014 at 06:52:34
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 If I was going to drop $3k and was just into the music - I would go with a nice integrated tube stereo.

If you're really into music - once you go tubes it's hard to go back.

I listen to classical music almost 99% of the time. So "music" is important to me as well. After years of farting around with new, old, vintage, tubes, separates, integrated, etc,,,,,,,,, I finally found that my favorite and best setup is a fully restored vintage tubed stereo.

Solid state = great specs
Tubes = great music

Just been there.

charles

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 28, 2014 at 07:05:08
davidbeinct
Audiophile

Posts: 182
Location: SE CT
Joined: June 20, 2014
 What's the rest of your system like? What are you using for amplification right now? What music do you like?

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 28, 2014 at 14:45:30
TGT
Audiophile

Posts: 531
Location: Kentucky
Joined: December 6, 2002
 I have the Emotiva XSP-1 Gen 2 Differential Reference™ preamp and am very pleased with it.

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 28, 2014 at 19:22:32
Rick58
Audiophile

Posts: 1118
Location: No. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Parasound is coming out with an integrated amp that 'contains' the P5 with an amp between the A23 and A21 in output (seems like). The P5 was apparently designed with the integrated in mind, from other sources/forums.

The A21 is an impressive beast, I want one too ... but others say the A23 sounds as good? for less money, if you don't need the power.

I have correspondence from Richard Schram (President of Parasound) saying the P7 preamp 'sounds better' and uses better parts than the P5, but of course is 2x more expensive. I'm going to get one of these some day, and sometime after assemble a high end surround system with it.

If you think you may want to get into surround (with an optimized analog preamp, and don't "need" all the bells/whistles of an AVR or AVP), maybe a P7 and A23 could do the trick for you? I don't know how the cost 'adds up' but it might be an alternate.

Just another thought ...

I hope to get a P7 soon, then maybe in a couple more years, an A21 (and some larger full range speakers). I currently have 300B tube amps and high sensitivity monitors with a sub ...

I'm sticking with the Parasound (at least in theory), not that Emotiva gear can't be just as good ... I just like the P7's overall design etc..

Edit/PS: The Emotiva XSP-1 Gen 2 Differential Reference™ preamp does look awfully sweet though ...! Many of the features of the P5/P7 (but not 7.1 compatible) at less cost.

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 28, 2014 at 21:51:17
Inmate51
 The Parasound A21 is killer. You won't be disappointed. It's among a handful of "creme de la creme" mid/high power amps. Twenty or thirty years from now, when people see your A21, it'll be like you own a Neumann U47 mic or a Neve console or a UA LA-4 compressor. Be prepared to clean up the drool. :)

I don't know anything about the preamps.

I'm getting the A21 myself. Shoulda had it in September, but a little thing called "kid's college tuition" got in the way. ;) And the thousand dollars I spent going to AES didn't help. Ha! So, it'll be another few months. That's ok, the new speakers aren't ready yet anyway.

:)


 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 28, 2014 at 22:37:43
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I really like the Parasound Halo A21. My Thiel CS3.7 speakers have fairly low impedance. They're rated at 4-ohms, but I measured them and I would call them 3-ohm speakers.



My A21 will deliver 750-wpc at 1000-Hz on tone bursts into the Thiels with both channels driven. I had to wear ear plugs when I conducted the tests. The A21 was just starting to clip at 50-VRMS. I heard no audible distortion from the Thiels.


 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 12:17:21
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 It is POSSIBLE that you might be better served by a PAIR of the A23 as biamp IF your speakers support this configuration.
Going forward, a line level crossover between amp and pre will net you as much as another 3db, this OVER what a single A21 will drive.
The pair of '23 nets about 500$ against the '21, at least at list price.

The 'depends on' list includes if your speakers can be biamped, how difficult it would eventually be to remove the speaker level crossover AND the proposed crossover frequencies / slopes.

Both the '21 and '23 have loop out function where a single ended connection goes to an amp, and loops over to the 2nd channel. So you DO NOT NEED splitters and the possible impedance issues. The P5 preamp in single ended has a very low output impedance of about 100 ohms, so that may be a moot point.

And finally, to gain the last Nth of sound quality from EITHER amp? Remove the level pot and replace with high-quality film resistors. They should total the 100k of the original part.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 12:19:57
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 The PS of the '21/'23 seems to be more robust than the new integrated. Look at the ratio of 8ohm to 4ohm power and you tell me what you think.

I would be of the opinion that the seperates STILL have the edge, as most would expect.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 12:22:12
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 As it turns out, from inspection of the published photos, the GII product is totally different than the original.
Fewer internal interconnects and a much 'cleaner' look, if that matters.

I'll admit to having been tempted until the P5 became available with its even BETTER feature set fit for my goals.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 12:43:36
Rick58
Audiophile

Posts: 1118
Location: No. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Yes of course separates are usually better ... but if one *wanted* an integrated and has >4 ohm speakers, looks like a decent choice.

Actually the 8/4 ohm power ratio is 1.5 for the integrated, 1.6 for the A21 ... not a significant difference to me. There aren't specs for current delivery or headroom etc. on the integrated (yet). I'd email Parasound for their comments on the integrated ... it possibly does have a less robust PS design than the separates, but looks like 'no slouch' in the power department.

Of course there are many many choices!

 

RE: Parasound A21 into Thiel 3.7, posted on October 29, 2014 at 12:50:16
Rick58
Audiophile

Posts: 1118
Location: No. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Wow! cool. I'd say the A21 is pretty bulletproof! More like 2.5 ohm speakers! OK, 3 on 'average' but there's lots of energy in the 2.5 ohm region on a lot of music ...

One of these days, I'll get one ... after a couple more upgrades/forays into high-sensitivity speakers for my 300B amps. Wanna get a P7 first tho ... sigh. Desires > Money, as usual ...

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 13:22:25
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Depending on GOALS, speaker specifics and personal aestetics, you may have a horse race here.
ME? My intent to to construct a PLLXO between pre and main amp(s) and DELEETE the speakers crossover. The amps level control must go, too, after some fiddling with the installed pot. Than I measure and replace with the appropriate resistors.
You can't DO that with the integrated.

Parasound also makes some claims about headroom. I don't know about the integrated in this regard, bur I DO know that my 'd' amp had no such rating. Even though the TOTAL per speaker of my A23s is 400, and the 'd' amp was 500, I'll give the long-term musical power output nod to the parasound. After crossover install? The Parasound could be nearly 3db ahead of the 'd' amp.

I don't think there is a BAD choice here. You just need to keep track of the goal and keep heading in that direction.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 16:01:34
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Do you have reactance data?
THAT will finish telling the story, since a combination of a 3 ohm minima at say…..50 or 60 degrees will kill almost ANY amp.

My personal favorite is the 'Smith Chart' which combines everything into a SINGLE line.


Too much is never enough

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 16:48:38
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Here is the impedance curve from Stereophile's test report. The dotted line represents electrical phase, which appears to reach a minimum of -40° at 60-Hz and a maximum of +36° at 40-kHz. It was about 5° at 1000-Hz where I tested it with tone bursts.


 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 17:22:22
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 -40 degrees at <4ohms? Not AWFUL but not an easy load, either. at about 60hz.
And from 100hz to 20k at <4ohms? Not my idea of a fun speaker to drive.

Your 1k test point at -5 degrees is about a close to resistive as you are likely to find, and therefore the EASIEST load for any reasonable amp to drive.


Too much is never enough

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 17:51:45
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 The Thiels are a piece of cake for the Parasound Halo A21. They sound great with fantastic clarity and spectacular dynamic range. This is the best sounding system I've ever owned and one of the best I've ever heard.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 18:08:26
psyopwak
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Location: Akron, OhiO
Joined: January 22, 2004
 I'd say go for it! I have the A21 and a P3 and they are a really good combo.
I have a pair of Vandersteen 2CE Sig2's and I could not be happier. I have also had an Odyssey Stratos/Candela combo and a McCormack DNA-125. The Parasound duo sounded better!! IMHO

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 29, 2014 at 18:33:31
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I'm likewise having terrific results with my panels and a PAIR of the A23. Biamping the Magnepan 1.6 is easy.
Later? delete the internal crossover and go PLLXO. With my short runs, it should be a piece of cake. If I had long runs, It go ACTIVE and BALANCED.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: tubes for $3000, posted on October 29, 2014 at 20:49:17
Rick58
Audiophile

Posts: 1118
Location: No. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Lots of love out there for the Rogue Cronus Magnum ... $2300, get some cap upgrades (available from the factory) and play with tube selection (Gold Lions always recommended).

I think I'd do that if I was 'starting from scratch' and had $3000 to spend.

 

I like that last part, posted on October 30, 2014 at 08:32:15
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I think the last part isn't the Nth, but more like you should do that first.

I've found most of the mucking up of the sound has come from variable resistors in the circuit. Lately I've been using a fixed resistor with a varialbe (potentiometer) to ground. Seems to be working out REALLLL good.

charles

 

RE: I like that last part, posted on October 30, 2014 at 13:06:15
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I have 'em turned UP all the way, so the carbon pot is effectively OUT of the circuit. However, due to gain considerations, I'd like to 'turn down' the amps just a little, thus the fixed resistors.
Richard Schramm Believes in some improvement but probably not 'orders of magnitude'. I do NOT want to put words in his mouth.

I would also like such a change to be reversible.
Too much is never enough

 

"mucking up", posted on October 30, 2014 at 15:06:52
Inmate51
 Measurements, please.

Otherwise, you can only guess, which is not the same as knowing.


 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on October 30, 2014 at 17:54:19
Jive Turkey
Audiophile

Posts: 2409
Location: far left, geographically speaking
Joined: May 5, 2010
 P7 and A21....making wonderful music on Dunlavy SC-IVA's here.

See ya. Dave

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on November 1, 2014 at 08:53:15
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 I've not heard the latest generation of Emo amps, I do own a couple pieces for a second system. If it was my money I'd buy the Parasound. I haven't kept up with Emo as I have no interest any more but they have had their fair share of reliability issues. With that being said my Emo CDP and preamp has been flawless but I've had some pieces break and depending on who you talk to at the company may or may not be a good experience. All of that aside and my opinion just on sound, the EMo gear lacks macro/micro dynamics, it's void of the character that makes an instrument sound like an instrument, sort of like comparing a chalk drawing of a picture to a full colre version. IMO the Parasound would yield more musical satisfaction regardless of price. The A21 has to be one of the best hi fi values around. I haven't heard the P5 but that is what I plan to replace the Emo pre with at some point. The built in crossover is a feature I need in that system.

 

RE: Parasound amp/preamp vs Emotiva, posted on November 1, 2014 at 12:32:56
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Parasound.

 

RE: "mucking up", posted on November 2, 2014 at 00:09:34
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I believe that it is generally conceeded that carbon film resistors are less desirable than metal film types. Noise / thermal characteristics are the 2 most cited reasons. Their may be more.
That's why I'd be more than willing to change to a resistor network switch IF there were room, which apparently there ISN'T. Failing that, a simple pair of film resistors replacing the pot will work, if I can settle on the new level than measure the legs on the existing pot.

I don't need to reinvent the wheel and do original research on this, since I have faith in the many debates I've read concerning carbon composition resistors and the superiority of film types.
Too much is never enough

 

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