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Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison

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Posted on October 24, 2014 at 13:37:27
AbeCollins
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 I've always wanted to try the relatively compact ARC VSi-60 Integrated amp and when I found a lightly used one in MINT condition with the silver faceplate, I pulled the trigger and bought it. Thank you Audiogon. There was another one with all black faceplate available but I prefer the silver face with black buttons which go well with most of my other gear. Yup, superficial stuff especially since I don't spend a lot of time staring at my gear while I listen to music.

So here we have the 100wpc $2295 USD MSRP Rogue Cronus Magnum with KT120 power tubes and the 50wpc $4495 USD Audio Research VSi-60 also with KT120 output tubes. The Rogue has an active all vacuum tube preamp section. The ARC has a passive volume control ahead of JFET gain stages and 6h30 drivers.

My first observation was that the ARC is fairly light weight as I lifted it from it's shipping box. I confirmed what I experienced after looking up the specs. The ARC weighs in at 35-Lbs and the Rogue is 50-Lbs. A lot of that weight difference appears to be in the transformers. The Rogue power supply transformer and each of the two audio output transformers appear to be about 30% larger than the ones in the ARC. This may also account for the difference in power output specs between the two amps. 100wpc vs 50wpc.

Both amps are very well built but the ARC looks more pleasing to the eye from a design perspective. The ARC looks more modern with front panel and remote control functionality to match. The Rogue appears old school with basic rotary input selector knob, balance control knob, and larger volume control knob. The ARC has square push buttons for Power, Mute, Mono, Input Select, Volume Up, Volume Down, along with LED indicators showing which input is selected and Volume level. The plastic ARC remote is also 'full-function' while the beefy aluminum Rogue remote offers basic Volume Up / Volume Down.

In Rogue's favor, it does come with a decent phono stage and headphone amp. The ARC has no phono section and no headphone jack. And although the MM phono on the Rogue isn't fantastic, it's not bad at all - better than a couple bargain basement outboard phono preamps I've had including one by Cambridge Audio and the other being the Musical Fidelity V-LPS.

Rogue Cronus Magnum & ARC VSi-60 Side-by-side


But how do they sound, Abe?

Coming off the Rogue Cronus Magnum which has been my favorite integrated amp for a long time, my initial knee jerk reaction hearing the ARC for the first time was that the ARC was 'bright'.

- The Rogue is warmer and richer sounding especially in the lower mids and it's bass is a bit rounder and fuller. This is an amp I can listen to for hours with no fatigue. And did I mention it has a nice full-bodied robust sound to it, even at modest listening levels? It doesn't have to be cranked up to sound great.

- On the flip side, the ARC is snappier and more agile, probably more toward 'neutral' sonically but it still has that liquid smooth tube sound. It is more revealing and transparent than the Rogue. The top end on the ARC is more extended and crisp. It's not bright but it does seem to have better treble extension than the Rogue.

Both amps produce a nice soundstage but the ARC is little larger and more 3-dimensional.

The ARC mates nicely with my Tannoy Definition D500 speakers but I'm not sure it would be a good match for my more detailed and power hungry Thiel CS2.4's. At 50wpc the ARC might be border line for these speakers. The Rogue was border line on the Thiels until I swapped out it's EL34 tubes with the more powerful KT120s. I'm not going to try the ARC on the Thiels because they're packed away down in the basement.

What about "Value" for the money?

No question in my mind that the Rogue Cronus Magnum at half the price of the ARC is the better value. Hands down, no contest! $2295 vs $4495? It's not like the ARC is twice the amp! In fact, it's half the amp if we're talking power output. Yeah, I know, that's like comparing a American muscle car that's quick at a drag strip vs a Euro sports car on a road course. In any case, the Rogue is no slouch and at $2295 it's probably one of the best bargains in audio today. Just my 2-cents worth.

The Rogue may also be the better amp but that really depends on your taste. Some folks have said the Rogue isn't that 'tubey' but compared to the ARC it is to my ears. If you prefer a warmer more harmonically rich sound, the Rogue is the obvious choice over the ARC. If transparency and treble extension is something you crave then the ARC might be more to your liking.

Another data point: My all time favorite sounding tube amps were the bargain priced AES/Cary SixPac monoblocks. Each 50wpc amp came with six EL34 tubes running rather hot but oh so sweet! The Rogue Cronus Magnum isn't quite as lush and romantic sounding but they lean more toward warm and full-bodied vs the ARC.

I like both the ARC and Rogue amps for different reasons. YMMV depending on associated gear in your setup and personal taste.

Mac Mini > Audirvana Plus > PS Audio NuWave DAC > Rogue or ARC amp > Tannoy Definition D500 Speakers.




 

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RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 24, 2014 at 13:48:01
fantja
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 Thank You! Abe.
Beautiful pic.

 

Interesting and detailed comparison, posted on October 24, 2014 at 13:58:24
E-Stat
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 I see similarities in your appraisal of the VSi with my new SP20. The 20 is anything but tubey sounding with fabulous resolution, tonal neutrality and top end extension. On the other hand, it didn't lose the "breath of life" midrange I have come to love and expect with the best tubes.

I am often reminded, however, of your frequent observations about tonal matching. My older VTL amps are a touch on the traditional tube side which makes a great balance. I would likely not want to pair the SP20 with something like a Bryston amp. :)

 

Thanks much Abe! Excellent comparison. (nt), posted on October 24, 2014 at 18:30:09
Beatlebum
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 .

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 24, 2014 at 20:37:34
classfolkphile
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 Nice review, Abe, thanks.

For those looking for greater transparency, resolution and refinement out of the Cronus Magnum, as I was, changing the output coupling caps to Mundorf Evo Silver/Oil/Gold and the fuses to Synergistic Research produced a significant amount more of these qualities. Not an inexpensive upgrade, but I don't know of another 100 wpc integrated of the Cronus's pedigree near the price.

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 24, 2014 at 20:49:54
AbeCollins
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Do you have more details on this upgrade? What value are the coupling caps and where do you buy them? Same for the fuses. Thanks!

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 24, 2014 at 20:55:36
mbnx01
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 Thanks for the nice write up, Abe.

I know it's easy as pie to set the bias on the Rogue, how is it on the ARC?




'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 24, 2014 at 21:23:18
Sprezza Tura
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 Abe, very enjoyable write up. Right to the point and full of excellent descriptors. Great pics too.

I run a VSi60 in my bedroom driving CS2.4s that I just bought a few weeks ago from a dealer who basically gave them away and it is a dream match up.
They compliment each other to no end. I normally use Vandy Treos there. You can tell I like time aligned phase correct speakers.

I was going to buy the Cronus Magnum, loved, loved, sound but I was not happy with the lack of volume steps with the remote. However, Rogue has rewritten the software control and this has been fixed it seems.

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 24, 2014 at 22:04:35
AbeCollins
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 Really, the VSi-60 driving Thiel CS2.4's? Now you have me wondering but I'm feeling too lazy to unpack and haul my 2.4's up out of the basement! I would have thought the 2.4's to be too difficult for the ARC. Maybe not.

Yes, I love the resolution and detail from the Thiels and they generally mate up very well with tube amps. I have a feeling the 2.4's might be too large for my 10 x 12 office listening room but I haven't actually given them a try. My Tannoys are bit smaller, a little warmer, but not as detailed or transparent as the Thiels.







 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 25, 2014 at 07:33:27
Sprezza Tura
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 I wouldn't drag out the Thile's for the hell of it if your room can't accommodate them. Rest assured, great match. Even easier to drive than the Vandys

But thinking about it, I don't think 10 x 12 is too small for them. They will need a week of play before they come alive if they have been dormant.

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 25, 2014 at 09:06:58
AbeCollins
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 They will need a week of play before they come alive if they have been dormant.

I'll just kick 'em a few times in the drivers to wake 'em up! Thanks for the info on the Thiels. They'll fit in the room but with not much space from each side wall.

 

Installed fresh KT120 tubes this morning. Rebiased all to 60mV - pics, posted on October 25, 2014 at 10:44:05
AbeCollins
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 The Rogue Cronus Magnum is a lot easier to bias but the ARC isn't difficult.

Rogue Cronus Magnum: Everything is accessible from the top of the amp including it's built-in bias meter. You simply remove a small cover plate by loosening it's two captive thumb screws which reveals 4 toggle switches and 4 10-turn trimpots. Flip the appropriate toggle switch, adjust the trimpot with the provided industry standard tweaker tool, and observe the meter. Repeat for the remaining tubes. Since the trimpots are 10-turn, it's super easy to dial-in the exact bias setting without overshooting or undershooting. Once dialed-in the bias remains rock solid.

Audio Research VSi-60: There are 4 pairs of small test point sockets on the back of the amp that will snugly fit the test probe tips from a digital multimeter. The 4 bias adjustment trimpots are single-turn and located under a hole in the chassis top plate near each KT120 power tube.

Fortunately, ARC provides a skinny plastic screwdriver tweaker tool as the industry defacto standard tweaker will not fit. The hole is too deep and the skinny part of the defacto standard tool is not long enough. OK, I'm not positive that these are THE industry standard tweaker tool but I've been using them for over fourty years since I was an electronic hobbyist as a kid.

With the bias test points located behind the ARC amp and using typical DMM test probes. I had to pull the amp forward on it's stand in order have enough to be able to see the test sockets and to clear enough space behind the amp for the probes. Adjustment was simple and stable. Just dial-in 60mV on the DMM for each tube and it remains rock solid.

Rogue with bias access cover plate removed, tweaker tool, and built-in meter. ARC bias access holes near each KT120.


ARC bias test jacks behind amp required amp to be pulled forward on stand with front of amp hanging off the front a few inches.


Dial-in ARC bias using a digital multimeter and tweak it to 60mV.


Standard tweaker tool as provided by Rogue on Left. Skinny plastic screwdriver provided by ARC on Right.




 

Would love some internal photos, posted on October 25, 2014 at 11:52:30
Jon L
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 of both amplifiers.

 

More than I want to handle right now..., posted on October 25, 2014 at 11:56:34
AbeCollins
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 ...maybe some other time in the future. I'm curious to see what's inside, too. I've been in the Rogue when I swapped the speaker taps from 8 ohms to 4 ohms. It's a bit tight in there. I haven't seen the insides of the ARC.



 

I much prefer the looks of the Rogue and the sound as well! NT, posted on October 25, 2014 at 13:04:53
jnr
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theaudiobeatnik.com

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 25, 2014 at 13:37:24
classfolkphile
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 I sent the unit back to Rogue, who supplied and installed the caps It's tight but they just fit with socket extenders, which I use anyway to raise the KT120s above the chassis. I don't like the metal bases of the tubes so close to the metal chassis and I figure it may help with heat dissipation also. (I'll try to post a pic later: I'm listening now ;) ).

They are the stock value (2.7uf IIRC) and are available from Parts Connexion ($55 list each). I had already disconnected the bypass caps as I found that they threw off the time alignment a lot (my speakers, like your Thiels, are first order crossover, time and phase coherent models).

I had previously installed Hi-Fi Tuning Fuses in all of the locations in the Cronus to good effect (more harmonic richness & resolution) but I read a post by Roger Modeski (Music Reference) on AC about their being unsuitable for fusing tubes (mains & B+ apparently are okay). So I changed to Synergistic Research Red fuses for the tubes (which location, I've found, has the most effect on the sound). They're significantly more resolving, transparent, accurate, and three dimensional than the other fuses. Drawback is they list for $90 each and only sell with a 10% discount at this time (being new?). I bought them from The Cable Company.

 

RE: More than I want to handle right now..., posted on October 25, 2014 at 13:58:55
Sprezza Tura
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 I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that an aftermarket power cord will improve the ARC. You don't have to spend much.

 

Thanks for the overview., posted on October 25, 2014 at 15:12:29
lochrider
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 I've been playing with the idea of getting a tube pre-amplifier or integrated amp for my office system (currently powered by a Cayin HA-1A as a pre- and a Parasound HCA-2200 mk ii driving relatively new ATC SCM 11 mk2's). My cost range is fromo $1200 to $2300. You have been very positive in your experience with the Cronus Magnum and I'm happy to learn from a post below that with some upgrades the unit can become more transparent with other improved qualities at a relatively modest cost. If I go with a pre-amp, it will have to have relatively low gain (8 - 10) or I won't get the benefit of a wide attenuation range on a tube unit. If that doesn't pan out, I'll come closer to getting the Cronus Magnum.

Comparison evaluations always make more sense to me; thanks.

Cheers,

Ian

 

RE: More than I want to handle right now..., posted on October 25, 2014 at 15:45:18
AbeCollins
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Probably. I have a couple Acoustic Zen Tsunami power cords that I like. The pic was just a quickie temp setup showing a cheapie generic cord for retubing and biasing.

 

RE: More than I want to handle right now..., posted on October 25, 2014 at 15:50:11
Sprezza Tura
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 You are shittin' me..that is what I use on the amp, the Tsunami II. Absolutely blows away the stock cord.

 

RE: More than I want to handle right now..., posted on October 25, 2014 at 17:07:33
AbeCollins
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 Really! First it's Thiel, then it's ARC, and now Tsunami cords? What next? Streamers? Just kidding. ;-)



 

Croft, posted on October 25, 2014 at 17:39:59
mbnx01
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 Makes a real nice tube preamp for $1395.

It comes with one line level out and one fixed out, but I had Glenn put two line level outs on mine so I could run a sub.






'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 25, 2014 at 20:38:47
Bill the K
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 What an enjoyable read!

Would you say the Cronus is the more musical sounding amp?

Cheers

Bill

 

I listened to VS-60, posted on October 26, 2014 at 07:56:52
Stale
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 It is the same as VSi but with no passive preamp. It was the cleanest sounding amplifier I have ever had a chance to listen to. It's sound was also completely harmonically bleached, freezingly cold and dry amp I have ever heard.

Few tube amps I had on the scale cold to warm:

VS-60 by far the coldest ever.

Rogue Stereo 90 was neutral amp, like a good solid state, missing some bass control but clean top end, can be slightly harsh in the midrange.

Conrad Johnson MV60SE - My current amp. Neutral with clean and extended with the right amount of harmonic richness and touch of warmth but without being slow or syrupy, very musical and enjoyable without being bland or boring. (had no chance to hear non SE version)

Cary Rocket 88R - Like warmer version of MV60SE but even richer harmonics, slightly emphasized top and bottom, and overall less balanced. Maybe greater that reality, occasionally on the slower side but still musical and enjoyable.

Conrad Johnson MV55 - too warm, soft and sluggish for my taste.



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RE: Would love some internal photos, posted on October 26, 2014 at 08:27:28
jedrider
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 For their respective price points, I don't think you would see much. They probably both use printed circuit boards and don't include point-to-point wiring.

 

RE: More than I want to handle right now..., posted on October 26, 2014 at 08:33:31
Sprezza Tura
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 Streamers? You?!!! God Forbid!! You would have a LOT of explaining to do to Apple when they come by your house for a "discussion". LOL.

 

RE: Installed fresh KT120 tubes this morning. Rebiased all to 60mV - pics, posted on October 26, 2014 at 09:41:36
jedrider
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 So, each tube is fused on the Cronus. Smart move to avoid warranty work for a bad tube.

I finally traced my Anthem AMP 1 reliability problem to a bad solder joint. Less anyone think of ordering Chinese, beware of poor quality assurance, but same can happen to companies that don't pay attention. I am now amazed at how reliable tube amplification CAN be.

I think for the $5K price, Audio Research should include a built-in meter and a button for each tube rather than pins on the rear. Still, not bad!

 

RE: I listened to VS-60, posted on October 26, 2014 at 09:51:37
AbeCollins
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 "[VS60] It is the same as VSi but with no passive preamp. It was the cleanest sounding amplifier I have ever had a chance to listen to. It's sound was also completely harmonically bleached, freezingly cold and dry amp I have ever heard."

You should listen to Bryston amps!

I had the CJ Premier 11a, similar to your MV60SE, and although it was a nice enough sounding tube amp, I thought it lacked dynamics and punch. It was also lacking in bass. The CJ Premier 11a was my very first tube amp and when I discovered the AES/Cary SixPacs at a fraction of the cost, I sold the CJ. The AES/Cary SixPacs were much better IMHO.

I also owned the Cary Rocket 88R which didn't have enough power to make my speakers sing. I was using the Tannoy Definition D500s which aren't especially difficult to drive but in my somewhat large listening room that I had at that time, the Rocket 88R sounded veiled and compressed.

The ARC VSi-60 is definitely a clean sounding tube amp. It is more transparent and extended than the Rogue Cronus Magnum but I wouldn't call it cold, bleached, or dry. I reserve those words for Bryston. ;-)





 

RE: I listened to VS-60, posted on October 26, 2014 at 10:06:36
morricab
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 I too find the newer ARC amps to be more solid state even than solid state in some ways...not a good trend IMO. OTOH, I heard an old ARC D250 that sounded not bad at all...it was huge and had a huge power supply was a bit warm sounding but powerful and clean.

I once did a demo in London of a pair of Wilson Benesch Arc standmount speakers with an all ARC system, except for the Krell SACD standard disc spinner. The sound was simply not gelling with a ARC ref 3 preamp, REf 220 monoblocks and the Krell. The dealer apologized and rather than blaming the Krell or the relatively affordable speakers he said the problem was the 18K pair monoblocks!!! (they were ARC dealers too!). Shocking but I heard the speakers again with different amps (same Krell spinner) and the result was MUCH better.

 

Audio Research VSi-60 sounding more brawny with fresh tubes...., posted on October 26, 2014 at 11:09:54
AbeCollins
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 I'm listening again to the ARC VSI-60 after installing a new set of KT120s. The sound is definitely more 'meaty' with a fuller midrange and below. What used to sound border line thin relative to the Rogue is no more. The bass is also tighter and deeper with the fresh tubes.

Both the ARC and Rogue are excellent sounding integrated amps. I find the ARC to be transparent, extended, and overall more refined than the Rogue. On the other hand, the Rogue is still warmer and more harmonically rich and very seductive, but it's not quite as transparent or 'clear' as the ARC.

I could easily enjoy either amp. In fact, I keep switching back and forth to determine which one I prefer. I haven't yet made up my mind. I do appreciate the fact that the ARC is more convenient with it's full-function remote and front panel layout and LED volume level indication. The Rogue is bare bones basic in the front panel and remote control.... and it's half the price of the ARC!

I keep coming back to that bang for the buck value proposition. There is no question in my mind which amp I would choose in terms of value. At half the price of the ARC, the Rogue Cronus Magnum is the clear winner. It's not a compromise sonically and it really depends on personal preference. I can see why it has been the recipient of so many reviewer awards. The Rogue is a solid performer right up there with much more expensive brands at a bargain price. As others have said, it's probably under priced for what it delivers but maybe that's why so many people own them.



 

Those I mentioned are low powered tube amps, posted on October 26, 2014 at 11:29:01
Stale
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 There are limitations to what they can drive. However, I found over time that generally I do not care for the speakers that are hard to drive and those who need to be pushed to sound good, no matter what the amp is, unfortunately most of today's speakers. Have no issues with the bass nor dynamics, but I use speakers that need not be pushed hard.

We discussed 6Pack before, it is good for the MSRP but ultimately did not do it for me (not to mention heat). Those interested in details can search the forum. But I got new CJ for less that the 6packs at closeout :-)

Byston? Come on it is not even in the same league. IMHO, I am not sure it is even in the same sport. Saying Bryston sounds cold, etc. is like saying that your home furnace is bad in baking thanksgiving turkey. Close but no cigar :-)
On a serious note, sst2 was better than tubed McIntosh integrated driving Magnepans and for a change not harsh (not much of the endorsement?).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 26, 2014 at 11:50:11
sudz1234@yahoo.com
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 How much are you dumping the Research for?

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 26, 2014 at 13:21:57
AbeCollins
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I dunno which amp I'll sell. I like them both, and I also have the Sony TA-A1ES solid-state integrated that I want to keep. I use the Sony for extended 8+ hours a day of music while I work in the home office. I use the tube integrated for more serious sit still and pay attention to the music sessions.



 

RE: Those I mentioned are low powered tube amps, posted on October 26, 2014 at 13:29:41
AbeCollins
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I think that's one area where we can agree to disagree. Or perhaps its just so called system synergy in our particular setups.

I much preferred the AES/Cary SixPacs over the CJ Premier 11a even though both are excellent amps. The CJ may have been a tad more 3 dimensional with it's almost holograph soundstage..... but without much oomph in the slam department, I found it better suited for female vocals, smooth jazz, and the stuff that passes for music in elevators. Yeah, that was a low blow. The CJ was much better than that and I reserve the elevator music comment for the Levinson 383 I once owned. Talk about sleepy time boring. The Levinson 383 was like Brystons on Xanax... like a loud transistor radio with a pillow smothering it. ;-)

One of the interesting aspects of my comparison was that I found the modest 50wpc SixPacs to sound more robust, more dynamic, and 'alive' compared to the 70wpc rated CJ. The SixPacs were a lively pair of monoblocks always ready for a crashing change in dynamic contrast, something I felt was lacking in the CJ.

I don't consider my Tannoy speakers to be difficult, just 'real world' speakers. They're not high efficiency speakers for flea power SETs but anything in the 50wpc 'or so' range work well and 100wpc or more really make them come alive. My Thiels require more power and the SixPacss didn't cut it in the larger room I had when I was using the Thiel speakers.



 

RE: Would love some internal photos, posted on October 26, 2014 at 16:45:21
AbeCollins
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There is no evidence that point to point wiring sounds better or is more reliable. The build process is certainly more inefficient and expensive.

Yes, both the Rogue and ARC use circuit boards but so do many 'mega buck' audiophile gear.


 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 26, 2014 at 18:52:29
mbnx01
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 I've got a lot of gear piling up too.

Can't decide if I want to have a big sale or just keep it - heck, it's nice gear.





'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 27, 2014 at 15:49:48
sudz1234@yahoo.com
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 I guess you are going to keep it for decoration.

 

Here's the Rogue, posted on October 28, 2014 at 08:48:10
mbnx01
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Sorry, don't have an ARC.







'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 vs Rogue Cronus Magnum side-by-side comparison, posted on October 28, 2014 at 11:07:15
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Decoration? No, I'm listening to it and enjoying it a lot.



 

Here's the ARC VSI-60, posted on October 28, 2014 at 12:49:28
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I had some free time at lunch to take the covers off and shoot a couple pics of the ARC VSi-60.

ARC VSi-60 Top


ARC VSi-60 Bottom




 

RE: Audio Research VSi-60 sounding more brawny with fresh tubes...., posted on October 29, 2014 at 09:31:47
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9175
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 I vote you will dump the ARC...I'm just sayin'...

 

RE: Here's the ARC VSI-60, posted on October 29, 2014 at 10:37:47
jsm71
Audiophile

Posts: 1123
Location: Cincinnati OH
Joined: June 16, 2011
 The assembly looks well thought out and neat. I like how the tube sockets are raised above the boards. I'm not sure if most tube gear builders protect the boards that way, but heat is the big knock against using boards vs. point to point. Those that do point to point like to claim that heat from tubes create board issues if not failures over time. It may just be marketing but point to point does seem to be a cleaner and more pure approach to wiring. Assembly cost does become a factor.

 

RE: Here's the ARC VSI-60, posted on October 29, 2014 at 14:16:24
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Typical ARC fare with clean layout and wide traces. WIMA caps and Roederstein Resista resistors used in signal path.

 

If you want to keep the Rogue, posted on October 29, 2014 at 15:48:15
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 6062
Joined: April 6, 2000
 but want more clarity without losing the warmth, I would recommend changing out the coupling caps (looks to be garden-variety metallized polypropylene caps in the photo below) to something like Jupiter Copper Foil Caps.

 

Rogue sounding even more lush with EL34s vs KT120s...., posted on October 29, 2014 at 23:32:34
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I'm not sure. I find myself enjoying the ARC a lot.

Just for grins, I swapped the KT120s out of the Rogue and replaced them with a fresh set of 6CA7EH (which I believe are more like EL34s). Talk about smooth, warm and seductive! The sound can be described as rich but darker overall.

However, with the ARC I'm hearing better detail in snare drums, cymbals, and percussion in general and with a nice deep tight bass. It's also more transparent and extended than the Rogue. I'm not sure if it's the treble extension and overall 'clarity' that also contributes to a bigger more holographic soundstage.

The two amps sound even more different now that I put 6CA7EH (EL34s?) in the Rogue. Both amps are excellent.

A couple folks have suggested replacing the coupling caps in the Rogue for more transparency while retaining its warmer tone.

 

RE: If you want to keep the Rogue, posted on October 29, 2014 at 23:34:57
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 You might be right. classfolkphile posted a couple photos of the Rogue with better coupling caps. I do enjoy the warmth of the Rogue but I'm hearing more detail and overall better transparency in the ARC.



 

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