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Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?

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Posted on October 23, 2014 at 20:31:41
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 I've only owned my one Pass XP10 and pair it with a X250. My prior pre was a close in price Conrad Johnson CT6 but never heard it with the X250, so with that and the X250 no real feel for a difference. Recently I had a chance at a great buy on a Levinson 326s preamp. My friend has this preamp in his Levinson system and I always thought his system sounded good. Of course, he has Salons... I had a chance to audition the 326s in my system. The 326s retails around $10k, the XP10 used to be $5750.00. The 326s sound stage put me further back in the hall which was an immediate check in the "con" column. The 326s had slightly more attack and quieter background but the XP10 had better micro/macro dynamics, more natural sounding, the bass was fuller without giving up detail. It could be system synergy, room etc. but for me, my preference was the XP10 no contest. I was surprised in the outcome and my confidence in the XP10 boasted.

 

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RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 23, 2014 at 21:33:02
John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I replaced a Mark Levinson No.28 preamp with a Pass Labs X1 and XOno. The Pass Labs components were noticeably better sounding than the Mark Levinson No.28. I've never owned a Pass Labs power amp, though.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

Not really, posted on October 24, 2014 at 14:13:28
E-Stat
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Posts: 37666
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  Since: April 5, 2002
 From what I've read, they hold their own and follow the same philosophy. Perhaps you are aware, however, that while Nelson designs the power amps, it is long term associate Wayne Colburn (starting with Threshold) who designs the line and phono stages.

Desmond is also responsible for the chassis design.

 

RE: Not really, posted on October 24, 2014 at 15:26:09
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 Personally, I haven't found the power amps live up to the hype either...but I haven't tried a first watt!!

 

As for me , posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:29:43
E-Stat
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Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 I continue to enjoy a thirty three year old Stasis 3 in the garage system. While it doesn't offer the midrange palpability of tube amps, it has wonderful low level resolution and a sweet top end.

Oh, and it's been utterly reliable for decades. :)

 

RE: Not really, posted on October 24, 2014 at 17:26:30
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 What's up E-stat? Now that you mention it I do recall reading the preamps were designed by some one else.

I'm usually a stickler for at least browsing the owner manual before setting something up but I sort of put that aside some on 2-channel amps & preamps. When I furst got my Pass pre I felt very silly after calling the dealer and telling him the power button didn't work on the remote. After he told me the XP10 doesn't have a power button I went back and did see that in the manual. Then I made myself feel better by telling me, " if there's no power button then why is there one on the remote", LOL. I really like my Pass gear though it just hits a nice spot with having power, control and detail while presenting it with a musical warmth, not syrupy warm, just inviting warm.

 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 17:41:42
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Oh yes. Mr Peabody, Pass Labs are THE company to beat (no pun) at this juncture. Pre-amp or Power amp, simply the best gear w/ best in class customer support.

 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 18:35:50
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46302
Location: USA
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  Since: February 2, 2002
 I thought the XP-10 was excellent. I had it driving my pair of Ampzilla 2000 2nd Edition monoblocks into a pair of Thiel CS2.4 speakers.

The earlier Pass X-2.5 was also pretty good but the XP-10 is better, and Pass finally fixed their goofy remote control used throughout their earlier generation of linestages. I hated that remote!

I don't know if you recall how the older remotes worked. They had only four buttons and you had to navigate a convoluted sequence of up/down prees prees, wiggle giggle, sneeze wink then push pull to get around the system. It was like the designer tried to do as much as he possibly could with the fewest number of buttons. An engineering marvel but consumer frustration. Sort of like the modern electronic infotainment systems in German cars, but I won't go there. That's all behind us now with consumer friendly remotes from Pass Labs. ;-)

I also had the X-3, X-150, and X-150.5 power amps. Both the XP-10 and X-150.5 were more refined than their previous generation.

One of my favorite and best sounding setups didn't have a Pass linestage. Instead, I drove the X150.5 with the wonderful sounding Cary SLP-05 tube linestage.



 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 18:46:15
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Nice! Abe-

did you ever pair your Pass power amp w/ Aesthetix calypso?
I would be interested in pairing these 2 components.

 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:42:24
Mr Peabody
Audiophile

Posts: 1109
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joined: August 14, 2010
 I haven't heard any Cary gear. Interesting you mention that though, I had my prior CJ CT6 paired with a Threshold amp and they had incredible synergy.

I'd like to hear one of the new .8 series but I think my dream amp is one of the pure Class A.

 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 20:52:22
AbeCollins
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  Since: February 2, 2002
No, I had the Pass gear a few years before the Aesthetix Calypso.



 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 05:45:52
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 I see.
I am thinking that this could be a magical combo;
Aesthetix pre-amp & Pass power amp
or
Pass pre-amp & Aesthetix power amp.

 

How can you judge, posted on October 25, 2014 at 08:15:28
WithTarragon
Audiophile

Posts: 227
Location: New England
Joined: June 29, 2007
 Your answer of "not really" is an odd one.

You admit that you have not actually heard any Pass pre-amps, so you offer an opinion based on something that someone else posted on the internet. That is little basis for criticizing a component, although it does prevent actual experience from influencing your opinion.

 

RE: How can you judge, posted on October 25, 2014 at 11:30:47
Sondek
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Posts: 9632
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 the "not really" answer was obviously E Stats answer to the OP's question of whether he ever wondered about Pass preamps. I am in the same camp as E Stat, I have NEVER pondered that question, and frankly could not care less about it.

 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 26, 2014 at 11:20:54
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I liked the Aesthetix Calypso for a couple reasons. It sounds warmer and more 'tubey' than the ARC LS25mkII that it replaced. It was also fun to tube roll with a wide selection of available tubes, unlike the 6H30s used in the ARC.

I also liked the fact that the Aesthetix offered similar functionality as the versatile ARC. Lots of balanced / unbalanced inputs & outputs, full function remote control with input selection, volume up/down, mute, power, etc. It wasn't a bare bones setup like some preamps.

That being said, the 'bare bones' functionality of the Cary SLP-05 can be forgiven in exchange for it's stellar sonics! It's still my favorite sounding linestage but a little inconvenient with it's two chassis design and minimalist remote.


 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 26, 2014 at 11:35:37
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 No doubt that Aesthetix makes outstanding gear!
I remember reading about your tube-rolling the Calypso.

Why did you go from the Cary to Rogue?

 

Curious response, posted on October 26, 2014 at 14:39:07
E-Stat
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Posts: 37666
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  Since: April 5, 2002
 That is little basis for criticizing a component

I don't recall criticizing anything. Let me respond again this time not directly responding to Peabody's question.

I am confident that Passlabs preamps are every bit as good as their amplifiers, both having consistently good reviews in the press by TAS, Stereophile, et.al. BTW, I have a Threshold Stasis 3 purchased new in 1981 that has seen trouble-free daily service. The only thing I've done with the amp is replace a few fuses and proactively replaced the big Mallory PS caps.

I couldn't be more pleased with that purchase. Still have the original box. :)

 

I like the old Pass Labs remote!, posted on October 26, 2014 at 23:54:52
Potrzebie
 The only remote that is easy to operate in the dark

Four buttons exactly like those on the pre amp, that operate the same way.

I guess you listen in a very bright room.

Most remotes have too many buttons, that make finding the right button hard to find, quickly!

 

RE: Ever wonder if Pass preamps are as good as the power amps?, posted on October 27, 2014 at 06:19:57
fin1bxn@msn.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2215
Location: new jersey
Joined: November 15, 2005
 I wanted to try tubes with my PASS X250 and purchased a Audio Research SP16. Kept it two weeks, tried different tubes and put back my B&K pro10mc preamp. About a month later I purchased the Pass X2.5 which I still have today with my Pass X250.5 which is better than the X250.

I believe in symmetry within brands..

 

RE: I like the old Pass Labs remote!, posted on October 27, 2014 at 09:29:14
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I found the old Pass remotes to be inconvenient because if you weren't in the right mode, you find yourself fumbling to get there in order to invoke the remote control command you want. Better to have a few more dedicated buttons than having to fumble through extra presses just to get in the right mode. My 2-cents worth.



 

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