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Phono Preamp

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Posted on September 5, 2014 at 17:51:53
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
Hello there right now I have a TTW Audio Eliminator Turntable with the 10" Eliminator tonearm,18K New Controller, Audioquest Leopard cable and Shelter 7000. what do you guys think of a Sutherland PHD as a Phono preamp for the Shelter 7000, My Preamp is Audio Analogue Bellini MK2.

Right now I'm using a Rogue Stealth Magnum.

 

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RE: Phono Preamp, posted on September 7, 2014 at 16:52:48
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005


What do you feel you are not getting from the Stealth Magnum that makes you want to switch. It's suppose to be a pretty good phono stage.....

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on September 8, 2014 at 08:35:17
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
The Shelter 7000 is LOMC and I have to run the Stealth @ 55 or 60db of gain and I'm getting HUM. I floated both the preamp the the Stealth and still getting some hum. Connected the Stealth to the ExactPower 2000 and the preamp to the BPT same outcome.

I also have a Dynavector 20x HOMC I run the stealth @ 35 or 45 db of gain no hum, I think is the transformer in the Stealth, I'm going to call Rogue and see what they say and maybe dampen the transformer really good with Hush Mat, maybe it will help.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on September 11, 2014 at 16:52:03
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
After talking to Nick @ Rogue Audio I tune the Transformer and that alone reduce the hum significantly. He also send me the spec sheet from the manufactures website and I call there tech support and they are sending me some shielding for free. I hope the shielding gets rid off the reminding hum. Will update when I install it.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on September 12, 2014 at 08:51:38
mulveling
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Atl
Joined: April 29, 2011
The Rogue phono preamps are very good sounding at their respective price points, but can indeed be tricky with regards to hum. I owned the Stealth a number of years ago, and have gone through many other stages and comparisons since then. Your level of setup would absolutely benefit significantly from a phono stage upgrade (beyond just hum level); the Stealth is good but will be holding back that level of gear.

The one-box units with a toroid can have that issue where you may need to rotate the thing to minimize hum (had to do this on a PS Audio GCPH).

I don't have experience with the other units you listed. The following stages I have owned all represent a very significant step up in MC sound quality, combined with very low noise:
* Hagerman Trumpet with Bob's Devices 1131 SUT
* Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 or Phono 1 SE+
* The built-in phono stage for a VAC Renaissance III preamp (MC mode or MM w/ 1131)

The Rogue Ares is also a very significant step up in sound quality (especially with 1131 SUT), but once again that last bit of hum/buzz can be tricky (and this one even uses a 2nd chassis for the toroid). Honestly, this stage is also tonally more like high-quality digital playback than the other stages. And it does some things spectacularly, but you have to decide if this attribute gels with what you want to get from vinyl. You can warm it up with tube rolling, but that's not really where it wants to go -- in fact I ended up liking Telefunken 12AX7 the best here -- the speed, microdynamics, snap and agility of this combination were superb. The Hagerman Trumpet lies on the other side of the spectrum from this. The Stealth is more similar to the Ares, except minus all of the spectacular things.

The Benz PP-1 (T9 is better than T8 version) is an incremental, but still notable, sonic upgrade to the Stealth, and also very quiet.

The PS Audio GCPH was also an incremental upgrade to the Stealth in sound quality, but can also have minor hum issues as you approach MC gain levels.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 14, 2014 at 23:41:55
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
Thank for your response Mulveling, you said that you own a Ares is that right? and you still have hum or noise issues with it? please clarify if you can as I'm in conversation with a Audiogoner to purchase a Ares and now I'm confuse, all the reviews that I read about the Ares say it is very quite no noise issues.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 14, 2014 at 23:50:30
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
Well I got the shielding in, it was two pieces of Mu Metal I applied them in this order, Hush Mat first layer, MU Metal and vinyl tape second layer
again mu metal and vinyl tape for the third layer and a complete capsule shield that encapsulated the entire transformer. now the transformer has three layers of shielding and also used Hush Mat to dampen the entire chassis man that made a big difference in the sound of the Stealth but I still have some HUM !!! dammit!!! I do not know what else to do but to upgrade to the Ares, I hope it does not have any noise issues like all the reviews say or I'm gonna loose it and end up in jail!!!

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 15, 2014 at 00:14:44
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014



Here is a photo of my system with the rack weights is around 500 lbs. excellent solid foundation.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 17, 2014 at 20:08:24
mulveling
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Atl
Joined: April 29, 2011
Hi,
I've owned an Ares on two separate occasions, actually. My system is comprised of a low output 0.3mV Koetsu, high-gain tube preamp & amp (Rogue Hera II and Apollo), and high sensitivity 96dB/Watt speakers. On top of that, I listen pretty loud. I.e. I'm a torture test for MC phono stages. So yes, under these circumstances it's easy to hear various kinds of hum/buzz on basically any MC phono stage. The other units I mentioned were slightly quieter (very impressive, in fact). I tried various positions with each stage, but I didn't experiment with external grounding wires.

In a system with more leeway on any of the above parameters (e.g. a higher output cart of say > 0.5mV), I'd guess that the Ares would be quiet enough. But in my system, it was one more reason to (slightly) prefer the Sonic Frontiers Phono 1SE+. The Ares bass was better, though -- superb, in fact. And again, let me reinforce that the Ares sounds way better than the Stealth (which I owned a number of years ago)!

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 21, 2014 at 23:54:25
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
Well the Ares is on it's way to Austin, I purchase one can't wait to play with it and see how it sounds. I hope all the reviews I read about it are correct. I'm all ready planing some mods for it but first I'm gonna leave it as is and listen to it to get to know it's sound and them do one mod @ a time and see what the differences in sound are.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 22, 2014 at 11:37:03
mulveling
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Atl
Joined: April 29, 2011
Well I think there's a very good chance you'll be very happy with it. Didn't mean to come down too hard on it; it does indeed sound great and would be nice to still have one to tag-in for the SF when I want to experience more extended bass :)

It gets even better if/when you upgrade the 3440A SUT or get a Bob's Devices 1131, which I used with my 2nd Ares -- a nice easy upgrade you can add at anytime. I loved the Telefunken 12AX7 in this setup, but RCA black plate 12AX7 were also good.

Note that I've pretty exclusively used Koetsu Platinum cartridges for the past 4 years, which almost certainly pushes my gear preferences a bit away from the norm.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 22, 2014 at 20:08:31
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
I'm planing on upgrading the Cinamag reds to blue and I heard the new Gold Lion tubes are quieter and can be used for phono applications. I'm looking forward to unlock the potential of my Shelter 7000 it is just broken in and for what I have read it should sound amazing with a good phono preamp. Witch Koetsu platinum you like the best? they are several of them; Azule, Tiger Eye, Coral Stone, Onyx, Jade. Just curios, I have a friend that he had the Koetsu black back in the 80's man that was a awesome cartridge for sure.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 23, 2014 at 10:38:09
mulveling
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Atl
Joined: April 29, 2011
That is a good plan -- and you're certainly stepping the system up to the next level!

I went a bit Koetsu crazy a few years ago; I've got an old 1990s Onyx Signature (non-Platinum), modern Onyx Platinum and Jade Platinum, and a 2000s Sugano Sr. Rosewood Signature Platinum. I slightly prefer the Platinum stone bodies to the RSP; they're very close sonically -- nearly identical in the mids & treble -- but the stone bodies have slightly more solid bass. Between the Onyx and Jade Platinums (similar hours), they're 99% alike but with very slight differences -- I'm not sure whether these are imparted by the stone or by the unit-to-unit variations of hand build cartridges. My favorite has toggled between the 2; currently it's the Onyx but that could change again.

The Onyx Signature is VERY interesting; it's the most "Koetsu" sounding of them all, with even more of those gorgeous lush/organic mids and stunning holographic 3D imaging. However, it's not as extended on both ends of the spectrum. The bass has enough energy to make the music whole, and it's not bloated at all, but just not as precise or extended as today's state of the art (e.g. compare to Ortofon Windfeld, which is now exceeded by other carts too). And the unit I have has got very high hours and is very much due for a re-tip, unfortunately.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on November 28, 2014 at 22:30:42
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
Well the Ares arrived this afternoon, I just woke up and was on my first cup of coffee when I saw the box by the front door. checked the box out and everything was good so I proceeded to unpack the unit and hooked it up. There was a big difference in background noise, no hum, no hiss, just pure gain and I had to put my ear about 6 to 8" from the drivers to hear it. The unit is super quite, I* set it up for medium output for the Shelter 5mv output and put a record on while I was doing other stuff. I have to work tomorrow night so it will be till Sunday or Monday for a good session, Boy I'm looking forward to that for sure.

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on December 5, 2014 at 12:53:48
oilmanmojo
Audiophile

Posts: 225
Location: Louisiana
Joined: August 31, 2007
I am fighting a hum issue with a lower output cartridge in my new set up. I went the cable route first and now am trying a different Phono preamp. My system is solid state so not the same issue at trying to solve a tube system. However, after floating the ground per recommendations, i can only conclude that my existing setup with a Lo Output ZYX cartridge doesnt have enough gain. I experience the same as you in that the higher gain RCM phono stage is resulting in a much quieter noise floor than my older zyx artisan stage.
oilmanmojo

 

RE: Phono Preamp, posted on December 5, 2014 at 17:24:31
PMC0607
Audiophile

Posts: 168
Location: Austin, TX.
Joined: January 1, 2014
My problem is completely solve now the Ares is super quite, no hum, no hiss just quite and it sounds wonderful. If you have both the pre amp and phono in the same receptacle change them and see if that helps.

 

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