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Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else

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Posted on June 5, 2009 at 12:00:44
Tantalus
Audiophile

Posts: 29
Location: DC
Joined: June 20, 2003
 Hey folks- Looking for a little guidance from those more experienced with amps than I. A while back, my PSE Studio IV amp started shutting down in one channel. I described the problem here:
http://tinyurl.com/o6ktrz

Had a local shop (who used to sell PSE and knows their stuff pretty closely) have a look. Turns out it is a rather major problem... To even get at the parts that would need replacing would require a lot of shop to for disassembly, so for them to do it, it would be prohibitively expensive. They contacted the most-retired man behind PSE, Dean. A repair would cost $300, for which cost he'd fix the troubles and replace whatever passive components might have degraded over time.

Right now, I'm using an older PSE amplifier that I put back into service, a Studio II. It seems to work OK, although the indicator light for the right channel doesn't light. The Studio II was made between 1982 and 1987.

So, I could keep what I've got and use it for as long as I can. That's one obvious thing to do. The other options I have are to

1) spend the $300 and get the PSE IV repaired and brought up to like-new status.

2) buy a different amplifier altogether, new

3) buy a different amp, used

Looking around a various reviews, it seems like Odyssey is making some good amps in the price range I'd be looking at. I'm thinking no more than $1000 or stretch to $1200 new. I also like the 20 year warranty Odyssey has.

I'm thinking the Khartago would be a good amp. I'm sure the Stratos is a nice amp, but from what I can understand, it is the exact same amp with different casework and a better power supply. I'm actually kind of partial to the low-key aesthetics of the Khartago vs. the Stratos, anyway. The glass front on the Stratos strikes me as a little over-the-top. I'm certainly happier with the $800 of the Khartago vs. the $1200 of the Stratos. I'm a little torn over used vs. new on the Odyssey amps. I wouldn't mind starting over fresh, and Odyssey touts doing some sort of matching to your loudspeakers (although I'm not sure the Vandersteens are at all weird, and they don't match to the preamp end where my problems might be, AFAIK). I'm pretty big on both the PSE and the Odyssey because they are made in the USA. Not jingoism, just hometown pride, I suppose.

Has anybody here heard both the PSE and the Khartago (or Stratos)?

The other thing that concerns me is the output impedence of my preamplifer. I'm using an Audible Illusions Modulus 3. The AI preamp has a very high output impedence of 1.2 k ohm. From what I understand (and from what AI says) the ideal input impedence for a matching amplifier should be around 45 k ohm, with an "accurate range" of 20-400 k ohm. The Odyssey amps have an input impedence of "greater than 10 k ohms." My interconnects are Petra, which are fairly low impedence, although I am using them in 1 meter length. Would the impedence mismatch likely be a problem? I know that a dealer I used to work with sold a lot of the exact combination Audible Illusions 3- PSE Studio IV- Vandersteen 2ce, and I've heard Richard Vandersteen was keen on the PSE amps for his speakers.

Also, I've got to say one thing about the Studio II vs. the Studio IV that I like is that the Studio II have volume pots good for around 20 db that you can access with a small screwdriver via the front panel. I've found that by turning them down, I can get rid of the the slight tube noise of my JJ tubes altogether. Probably, that is creating just the sort of impedence thing I've worried about- anybody? Any reason not to use the pots to decrease system noise? I can still get adequate volume, I just have to move the volume knobs on the AI up a bit more.

Anyway- anybody have any input? What would you do? Any other amps I should be looking at? I'm leaning pretty heavily toward solid-state. I don't want to replace the AI. I like the speakers. How long it takes to get the PSE fixed isn't a huge concern because I have the other PSE amp in the meanwhile. And, the latest word from Dean is that he is a little more active in things of late. His wife passed away after a long illness not too long ago, so he's gone from being caretaker to yet again retired audio wonk.
Thanks!

System:
Squeezebox-- CAL Gamma DAC-- VPI jr table/Japan-sourced VPI-badged arm/Clearaudio Beta--- Audible Illusions Modulus 3 (Russian Type 2 tubes in phono stage, JJ tubes in line stage)--- currently PSE Studio II--- Petra interconnects--- Radio Shack solid core for speaker cable, doubled and bi-wired--- Vandersteen 2Ce.

 

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RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 5, 2009 at 12:30:45
jeffjazz


 
The Odessey Stratos amp is great bang for the buck. I had one. To me it was a little harsh and too forward sounding. Not my cup of tea. I owned a CJ MF-200 amp which was more tubey sounding. I kept that at the time. There is one on Audiogon for $950 with upgrades on it (done by the guy who designed it.) + it puts out 250 watts a side. Even though this is an older CJ model it is a great sounding amp and should mate great with your preamp. One possibility, others out there. I also saw a used Aragon 8088 amp for under 1K. Suppose to be a very good amp, though probably not warm sounding. Looking at Audiogon this would sound great also
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1249355827&/McCormack-DNA-1
I had the smaller McCormack DNA .05 for a while and it was a great amp and was comparable to the CJ

Saw this Marsh amp also which was very highly reviewed
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1249145748&/Marsh-A-400S

You should be able to find a real nice amp in your price range.

 

Odyssey, posted on June 5, 2009 at 12:34:38
Hyfi
Audiophile

Posts: 733
Joined: January 30, 2002
 I can recommend the Odyssey Stratos since I have been a happy owner for several years. It is a killer amp for the money. Deep bass slam and detailed highs. Until I recently brought an old Counterpoint NPS-400 back to like and started using it did I notice that the midrange was not quite as good. But, we are talking about an amp costing almost 4x as much when it was new.

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 5, 2009 at 12:36:01
Hyfi
Audiophile

Posts: 733
Joined: January 30, 2002
 Agree with the Forward comment although that and the midrange may be it's only downside if you call it that.

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 5, 2009 at 13:00:43
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 9623
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 The PSE was/is a very good amp. Ugly as sin, but very good sounding. I vote you get it fixed and keep using it. I mean what else could you buy for $300? Dance with the one that brung ya.

Long time ago I nearly bought a PSE IV, but it lost out to a Counterpoint SA12 in a close fight. The sound of the two was very similar. You might seek out a used Counterpoint SA100 for a little more than the repair on the PSE if you want something similar but different. Then again, you might just be buying somebodyelse's trouble as my Granny used to say. Get the PSE fixed.

 

Used Odyssey Stratos, posted on June 5, 2009 at 13:09:54
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 For around $600 used +/- depending on age and condition, I think the Odyssey Stratos is one of THE best values out there.

The Odyssey Stratos "Extreme" version might sound a little better but not significantly. I owned both the Stratos "regular" and the "Extreme" and found the base model to be the better value.

 

RE: Used Odyssey Stratos, posted on June 5, 2009 at 13:22:59
Hyfi
Audiophile

Posts: 733
Joined: January 30, 2002
 For another $400, you can send it back to Klaus and have him upgrade it to todays specs and components but that would be no dif than buying it new today.

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 6, 2009 at 12:39:04
l1945@sbcglobal.net
Audiophile

Posts: 1672
Location: midwest
Joined: July 5, 2007
 First of all the Kartago is not a Stratos in anyway shape or form. The only thing the have in common is the name Odyssey. That being said the Kartagos to buy are the monoblocs. They are a step up from the stereo amp. But a good Stratos is better. I use a pair of Mono SE's in the glass cieling mode that are tweeked to my current setup. Had a CJ 200 (maybe the 250)watt amp in my system for a short while and ended up giving it away to one of my sons. It was OK but too harsh for me, and had a lot of glare in the sound. I went from that back to tubes, and went thru two or three tube amps before buying the mono blocs. I actually had them in the shipping boxes unused when my tube amp decided it was time. Sent them back to Klaus Bunge for a tune up, and the "SE" upgrade at the sametime. Then later had them upgraded again to the glass cieling mode. (mine were the first ones done) The SE's had a sound that sorta reminded me of the Accuphase amp I used to own, but more powerfull in the bass. The glass cieling amps just blew the SE's away 15 minutes after being powered up!
Your comment about the lighted glass panel on the front brings to light an inquiry I made with Klaus. The actual brightness can be adjusted with a pot located inside of the amp (I suppose you could even turn it off for that matter)
gary
Gary

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 6, 2009 at 15:59:01
plantsman
Audiophile

Posts: 4792
Location: Maine
Joined: April 4, 2002
 I've heard the Stratos, but not the Khartago, and numerous incarnations of the PSE amps but sadly not side-by-side. My impression is that the plain vanilla Stratos is a slightly better amp than the Studio IV, a bit warmer and fuller, but without having had a chance to A-B them in my system that is just a vague impression. For a $300 repair investment I very much doubt that you could find anything that sounds as good as a Studio IV. Circa mid-'90s the Bound for Sound reviewers preferred the Studio IV to the Pass Aleph 3 for whatever that may be worth. My understanding is that the turn around time for the PSE upgrades or repair from Dean is not exactly rapid so that should figure into your decision too. I think the biggest argument for an Odyssey amp is the 20-year warranty from a still in business company. How much the greater peace of mind is worth is your call.

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 7, 2009 at 14:32:53
jeffjazz


 
Never thought the CJ amp was harsh or had glare. It wasn't as refined as the Pass amp I now have, nor as detailed and fast, but it was very musical and on the warm side. Different ears I guess, and everything is system dependent also. The Cj was good enough that when I tried CD players and preamps that weren't up to snuff, I could hear it. Stratos didn't mate well in my system. MCCormack amp sounded better also.

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 7, 2009 at 17:10:56
Tantalus
Audiophile

Posts: 29
Location: DC
Joined: June 20, 2003
 Thanks for all the great responses, folks! It has been a help in clarifying my thoughts. I think I am going to go ahead and get the PSE fixed. For one thing, since I have an older functional PSE, I can afford to have it over at Dean's in Minnesota for a while. And, since I could sell the amp for something more or less around the $300 it would cost to get it fixed, I'm not out much money if I decide to go for a new amp sometime in the future. Third thing- I might actually be able to BI-AMP my Vandersteens, with the old PSE on the bass driver and the newer, fixed PSE on the midrange/tweeter.

Maybe at some point I'll get involved with a local audio club here in Denver, and I might get a chance to try out an Odyssey in my system. Sure, Klaus has got a 30-day return policy, but I wouldn't want to take advantage of it if I didn't think there was a really good chance I'd keep the amp, and I'm thinking I'll go with the repaired PSE for now..

Oh, one more now semi-tangential note- here is where I got the information about the differences between the Khartago and the Stratos:

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/odysseyaudio_khartago.htm

"According to Klaus, the Khartago's circuit board is identical to that of the Odyssey Stratos, which currently sells for $1070. The differences between the two amps are the Khartago's internal heatsinks (which are bright blue on the review sample), its smaller power supply, and the chassis, which is, Klaus admits, where the bulk of the money is saved. That's all."

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 7, 2009 at 23:37:33
l1945@sbcglobal.net
Audiophile

Posts: 1672
Location: midwest
Joined: July 5, 2007
 to really be fair I could have blaimed some of it on the preamp as well. The speakers were Meadowlarks (also tried it with a pair of Soliloquys). The Meadowlarks just didn't sound right with the amp. But on the otherhand I used that same pair of speakers with my Mono SE's, and the sound was great.
Klaus Bunge ask me onetime what I thought of the monoblocs, and I said they sorta reminded me of the Accuphase amp I used to have, but were a little more forward with greater bass slam. I used the mono blocs with several different preamps. I finally settled on a Quicksilver line stage, and used that combo for a couple years till I bought the Candella. Still there are things I liked about the Quicksilver even to this day, but the Candella just has more presence with far greater bass (as well as better control). I did try three different solid state preamps with it, and hated each one. I also took the CJ out of my bedroom system and an ASL one too. I liked the CJ, but seemed a little lean compaired to the Quicksilver (CJ was slightly quieter).
gary
Gary

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 8, 2009 at 05:07:57
Jerry P
Audiophile

Posts: 897
Location: NE Ohio
Joined: June 17, 2000
 I have a Stratos and AI M3A and it is a great combo.
My previous amp was a McCormack DNA-1 and IMHO the
Stratos is a much better amp.
Sony SCD-777ES >> Silver Audio SB 4.0 >> AI M3A >> Silver Audio Hyacinth >> Odyssey Stratos >> Tice 416A Bi-wire >> MG 1.6QR

 

Stratos:"Harsh and forward sounding"????......, posted on June 13, 2009 at 09:22:27
Marc Bratton
Audiophile

Posts: 4916
Joined: June 15, 2000
 Not in MY system! As I said in my review of the standard monoblocs (in these pages) these are the ONLY SS amps I've been able to live with, long term, because they are the antithesis of "SS sound". Maybe that's because I have them paired with a very good tube pre (QS full function). Doesn't matter how much an amp can do rock, if it sullies in any way the sound of my beloved string quartets, then the whole deal is off. These amps have as much finesse as they do grunt, and they are the best deal out there, IMHO. If the OP wants to fix his PSE amp, that's well and good, but I can assure him the Stratos would be a fabulous match with his Vandersteens.

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on June 20, 2009 at 10:53:36
Jallen
Manufacturer

Posts: 193
Joined: February 4, 2002
 The PSE are great amps and worth fixing to keep. Also good are the Rotel RB 1080 amps. The larger 1090 is good, but miserable to repair. All audio equipment eventually fails, SS or tubes. Get what you enjoy and fix it if you like it. jallen

 

RE: Stratos:"Harsh and forward sounding"????......, posted on May 17, 2016 at 07:30:56
Johnny R
Dealer

Posts: 131
Joined: January 28, 2001
 ((((but I can assure him the Stratos would be a fabulous match with his Vandersteens.)))

Marc sorry to bust your balls but on this one and I am glad your QS FF with its 12 ohm output imp and Odesys work together
Its the AI pre amp with 1200 ohm output imp that he likes is not at its best with Oddesys 10 k load.
The PSE / AI is a fine match.
F I X the PSE and or get another I just saw one for under 4oo buck on agone.
Best JohnnyR

 

RE: Stratos:"Harsh and forward sounding"????......, posted on May 27, 2016 at 22:09:40
l1945@sbcglobal.net
Audiophile

Posts: 1672
Location: midwest
Joined: July 5, 2007
 glad you made this post, as I was thinking about picking one up and rebuilding it.

Getting ready to send my two Odyssey amps in for a tune up and recap (been close to ten years now without a single hitch). I learned thru the years that the break in went on for four or five hundred hours. Caps don't last forever, and while the system is being moved I'll get them changed out.
gary
Gary

 

RE: Amplifiers: PSE vs. Odyssey vs. something else, posted on May 28, 2016 at 12:29:30
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
There is a member here (not me) on the asylum that has a Emotiva XPA-200 gen2 amp for sale in the Asylum Trader for $279.00/. It's a 150 watt amp. They are suppose to be am amp that gives you a lot of bang for the buck.....

 

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