Amp/Preamp Asylum

Looking for a new Amp or Preamp? If you're after tubes, post over here.

Return to Amp/Preamp Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Ayre Reference Phono Preamp?

12.32.107.9
Posted on August 9, 2008 at 13:24:59
Obsessed1
Audiophile

Posts: 175
Location: Canada
Joined: October 20, 2003
 I recall seeing some time ago that Ayre was going to come out with a reference phono preamp (maybe matching the MXR/KXR series), but couldn't find it with the search function.

Does anyone have any information on when this might arrive? and what features it might have (e.g., multiple loading options)?

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: Ayre Reference Phono Preamp?, posted on August 9, 2008 at 16:14:15
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 At Ayre we do things in a funny way. We don't design for a price point or a time table or anything like that. We just design the best product we know how. But even then everything is subject to change. It's not uncommon for us to stop work on one project and come back to it later.

We are looking hard at doing a phono stage as the next product in the "R" series lineup. How long it take and how much it costs remains to be seen. It mostly depends on what features we include. We have had requests for:

- Remote control gain.
- Remote control loading.
- Multiple inputs.
- Adjustable EQ curves.
- Mono switch.

If we left all of those features off, we could finish it in a few months and it would probably cost $8,000 or $10,000. If we included all of those features, it would probably take 6 or 8 months and cost twice as much.

Some of those features I refuse to include on basic principles. Like adding multiple inputs. That is absolutely the worst place in the signal path to put a switch. Only a handful of people have multiple arms and/or tables. They can always buy two phono stages if they are that serious about having multiple arms and/or tables. There's no reason to make everyone pay the price for a few people.

 

RE: Ayre Reference Phono Preamp?, posted on August 9, 2008 at 16:32:20
delaney@rea-alp.com
Audiophile

Posts: 955
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 17, 2003
 What a great honest answer....I applaud your reply.

 

Ayre PXR - Multiple Outputs?, posted on August 9, 2008 at 17:47:56
proth


 
Hope your summer and your rehab is going well Charles! What about multiple outputs like on the KXR? One output could go to the preamp and the second could go directly to a high-quality Analog-Digital converter for archiving records to a music server (something I'm convinced will become more and more popular) -- or do you think there would be no real benefit from such a "direct" route vis-a-vis using the "record" out from the KXR?

In the meantime, how is the USB DAC coming along? Can't wait for that. Over and out. - Pete -

 

RE: Ayre Reference Phono Preamp?, posted on August 9, 2008 at 19:21:08
Obsessed1
Audiophile

Posts: 175
Location: Canada
Joined: October 20, 2003
 Thanks for the reply, Charles (on a summer Saturday, no less).

I love the thought of the remote loading option, but probably wouldn't miss the other features you mention above. I could probably live without remote loading, too. However, if you do multiple loading options (essential, in my view), if no remote option, my vote would be for easy switches on the back or even plug-in modules. (DIP switches are a real pain).

I agree multiple inputs are not necessary (but balanced and unbalanced input options also would be nice).

As for price, it would be nice to keep it under the current price for the MXRs (love 'em).

Looking forward to your finished product....

 

RE: Ayre PXR - Multiple Outputs?, posted on August 10, 2008 at 11:37:48
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << What about multiple outputs like on the KXR? One output could go to the preamp and the second could go directly to a high-quality Analog-Digital converter for archiving records to a music server >>

That's already built into your KX-R preamp. There are two sets of tape outputs. Just connect a tape output to your ADC.

 

My wish list, posted on August 12, 2008 at 08:07:38
JerryS
Reviewer

Posts: 2026
Joined: February 24, 2001
 1. Balanced and SE inputs. Need not be for two different cartridges, but since a cartridge is inherently balanced, it would be great to be able to keep the signal balanced.
2. Gain and loading switches accessible from the front panel.

Best of luck with the new product.

JerryS

 

Thank you!, posted on August 12, 2008 at 12:00:16
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 Your wish list is the same as my wish list. These features are important, yet very easy to implement. Some of the other ones get tricky (and expensive).

 

And another feature request from left field., posted on August 13, 2008 at 22:43:15
sleeper
Audiophile

Posts: 1166
Joined: May 21, 2002
 Hello Charles,

I had a chance to listen to the Cx7e for a couple of days last week and was very impressed with the smooth and musical sound it produced in my home system. Your Chicago area dealer, Audio Consultants, shipped their demo unit to me for trial run. I was a little disappointed that the unit does not incorporate track programmability and that the display will not show either track or disc remain time. A day or so ago I had a conversation on the phone with Steve Silverman in Boulder who told me that a firmware upgrade is in the works to enable remain times for the front panel display and I am hoping you can confirm that. He also said that track programmability is not achievable with the transport installed in the 7 and the outsourced remote control (for reasons which I cannot recall at the moment). So, consider this in part a formal request for this feature to be included in any future players from Ayre. Its absence is not a deal killer for me, but track selection is something I use a lot in my day-to-day listening routine and if it was implemented in the 7 it certainly would have made me reach for my checkbook (debit card) last Saturday. As it stands now, I’ll listen to a couple of other more expensive players, but they will have to be way beyond the 7 in audio performance to knock it out of first place at purchase time.

Very best regards,

Steve Weber
Madison, WI

 

RE: And another feature request from left field., posted on August 14, 2008 at 18:22:45
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 We are working on a firmware upgrade for the CX-7e right now. One change will be the inclusion of track remaining time.

We will *not* include disc remaining time because the trouble-to-worth ratio is beyond comprehension. First of all, there needs to be a display light on the front panel that shows whether you are in track remaining or disc remaining mode. This is not on the unit and is not easily added. Our policy is that all units ever built can be updated for a reasonable price, and we cannot do this.

Then there is the problem of various modes. Let's say the unit is "shuffle" mode. It becomes much more complex about what to display for "disc remaining" and how to calculate it. And what happens if you select both "shuffle" and "repeat"? How do you calculate the disc remaining time? It quickly becomes a quagmire of both programming and common sense (how can the user glance at the display and get the information he wants).

A similar problem arises with programming the disc. Let's say that you hate tracks 2 and 12 on a certain disc. The only way to keep track of what tracks you have chosen to play or not play is to have a little display of all the available tracks. Philips (Magnavox) used to have a little "scoreboard" that went up to 20. When you loaded the disc, the total number of tracks (say 17) would light up. Then you could "delete" specific tracks from the playlist.

But without the little "scoreboard", there is no way to keep track of which tracks you have selected for play and which ones not. (And what if you disc had more than 20 tracks?)

Our player has no easy way of displaying such a scoreboard. Our display uses only non-multiplexed LEDs that generate zero electrical noise and therefore do not degrade the sound like the fluorescent displays on those Philips (Magnavox) players. Plus our display is large enough to read from across the room.

Just as in life, electronic design is a series of tradeoffs. We try to make the best ones we can. But you can't be all things to all people. If we had every single feature that everyone wanted, the player would cost twice as much without sounding any better. So no matter what, we can't make everybody happy.

Hopefully you will like the tradeoffs we have made.

There will probably be a few surprises with the firmware upgrade too. As usual, people who have purchased a product within a specific time window (typically 90 days) will get a free upgrade. All units, regardless of age will be upgradable for a reasonable cost. I'm guessing another month or two before the upgrade is released.

 

Thanks, Charles., posted on August 14, 2008 at 21:02:42
sleeper
Audiophile

Posts: 1166
Joined: May 21, 2002
 As I wrote above, I think the player sounds terrific, which trumps any quibbles about time displays and track selection.

 

RE: My wish list, posted on August 15, 2008 at 15:49:49
audiophilect
Audiophile

Posts: 234
Location: SE US
Joined: October 4, 2006
 "since a cartridge is inherently balanced"

I don't see why it is balanced unless there is a center tab on the coil.

 

Balanced phono cartridges, posted on August 15, 2008 at 17:14:55
JerryS
Reviewer

Posts: 2026
Joined: February 24, 2001
 See:
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/datashts/34kdx.pdf

In the schematic, you see a phono cartridge on the left side for the input - "3 Ohm Pickup". The "pickup" is similar to the input primary of the Jensen step up transformer, which is just a coil. The top of the coil can be + or - depending on the signal at an instant in time. Same with the bottom of the coil, + or - at an instant in time. The important point is that if the top of the coil is +, the bottom will be -, and vice-versa. Voila...a balanced circuit! And at this point, there is no reference to ground.

Bad explanation, but I hope it describes the balanced nature of a simple coil of wire, which is basically what a phono cartridge is, times 2 for stereo.

I just found the link below. See the section "What goes on inside a cartridge?"

BTW, a loudspeaker driver (without crossover) is also a balanced device.

Happy listening.

 

RE: Balanced phono cartridges, posted on August 16, 2008 at 19:55:38
audiophilect
Audiophile

Posts: 234
Location: SE US
Joined: October 4, 2006
 Without reference to the ground it is not a balanced output although one can convert it to a balanced one using a transformer (and other means).

 

Good list of features., posted on August 19, 2008 at 08:13:52
Larry I
Audiophile

Posts: 2229
Location: No. Va.
Joined: June 28, 2000
 I like your list of features. If one does remote control of adjustments, the ability to make a fast switch (for immediate comparison) is helpful. Some remotely controlled phono stages go into an extended mute before switching, which makes comparisons a little bit harder.

I think a polarity switch is also helpful (just for fun, make it do nothing at all).

I know this is better implemented on the linestage itself, but, the ability to set channel balance for the phono input that is independent of the general, system balance, is helpful, given the slight channel imbalance found with most cartridges (the Levinson No. 32 with phono stage allows for such balance setting).

What equalization options are you thinking about including? That sounds like a really nice, albeit expensive, feature.

 

RE: Ayre Reference Phono Preamp?, posted on October 8, 2011 at 09:39:25
JCF
Audiophile

Posts: 448
Location: Austin, Tx
Joined: November 17, 2000
 Hi Charles...i know a old thread, any updates you can share on a possible r series phono stage? I love my MXR's btw! Thanks

 

RE: Ayre Reference Phono Preamp?, posted on October 9, 2011 at 13:18:51
Picklesnapper
Audiophile

Posts: 492
Location: East Coast U.S.
Joined: January 16, 2010
 If I may place a vote here, I don't need remote control anything except volume, which I already have. I figure if I'm already out of my chair putting a record on I can just as easily turn to the left and adjust something else with "my bare hands!". I just want something that works extremely well and doesn't interfere with the music.

It sounds like this would come on the market just about the time I figure I'll have the dough saved up to start shopping for the last pieces of equipment I need to finish my stereo; the analog stuff.

 

RE: Ayre Reference Phono Preamp?, posted on February 17, 2017 at 04:15:08
Mark Hoepfl
Audiophile

Posts: 55
Joined: July 11, 2007
 Any news Charles? Been awhile! :)

@Charles Hansen

 

Vandy's, posted on March 2, 2017 at 07:50:57
ctsooner
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: Connecticut
Joined: November 28, 2014
 Not saying they will come out with one, but as Charlie says, they are constantly working on lot's of new gear and it's been well over 10 years since they did a phono amp. Ironic as it's still pretty darn good for what it offers.

 

RE: Vandy's, posted on March 2, 2017 at 18:04:49
Mark Hoepfl
Audiophile

Posts: 55
Joined: July 11, 2007
 I think Ayre have played enough with digital! They don't need to release a R version....just a twenty version adding the new tricks they have learnt over the years would be good. please see what you can find out! :D

 

Page processed in 0.039 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]