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Since Dean (reelsmith) got me thinking with the top 10turntables how about listing the ten most significant phono cartridges of all time ?
Follow Ups:
I don't know if I will get to 10, but here are some favorites from over the years, in no particular order
ADC XLM
Stanton 681EEE (with the engraved numbers)
Early Grados
Ortofon S-15-T (very special and unique)
Ortofon Super OM-30 and 40
Shure V-15 III (original and with Jico)
Shure V-15 V-MR
Benz Glider (L)
Benz Micro Ruby Wood 2 (My current)
Dynavector 20X2 (L or H)
On a shoestring:
Grado Green (new)
Audio Technica AT440mla (new)
Shure m97xe (new)
Shure m91ed (used)
Okay, once I got going, I went way over 10!
Dave
My criteria: (1) a lot of them were sold, (2) there was something unique about the design, the sound, or the hype.
In no particular order:
Shure V15 (you pick which version)
Audio Technica (something)
Decca C4 (anyway, the spherical tip one that HP loved so much)
Decca (another one)
ADC XLM
Supex 900 (first MC marketed in US)
Koetsu Rosewood
Stanton 681 or other
Ortofon MC
Grado TLZ or the like
and would definitely add the DL103 (most variants but not all).
I think the Shure V15, AT, Decca,
I would suggest others to be included would be, in no particular order:
1) Technics 100C (unbelievably light/stiff boron vapor deposition cantilever and very low resistance/inductance/reactance).
2) Fidelity Research FR-7 (huge magnet, air core)
3) Victor MC L-1000 (super light coil mounted on top of stylus, air core)
4) Ortofon SPU (there is a serious cult following here - but I haven't tried it myself).
and I am sure there are some which predate any on your list which historically I should know about but don't.
Personally, the electrostatic, ceramic, strain gauge carts of the past were certainly very interesting innovations but to a great extent, they didn't influence anyone else afterwards and significantly change the industry. Though... stated like that, neither did any of my 3-4 choices above, unfortunately...
based on bang for the buck, longevity in the market place, and tweakability.
Tough Question: Somehow I feel like I am laking the experience to judge the ten best cartridges.
I heard each of the following 5 sound spectacular in at least one instance (in no particular order)
1. Jan Allaerts MC1B
2. Shindo SPU
3. Lyra Olympos
4. EMD JSD5
5. AT33 PTG
Good but not top 5 from my impressions:
6. Denon DL103
7. Lyra Delos, Helikon
8. Dyna XX-2
9. Ortofon SPU-N
10. ZYX Universe
Some that I happened to be not impressed by: Kondo IO, Shilabe, Ortofon Windfeld, Dyna XV-1, Ortofon Jubilee, Koetsu Rosewood, Benz Ace, ZYX Bloom
Not heard: Miyabi, Transfiguration, VdHul, Allaerts Finish, FIdelity Research
If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music.
- Albert Einstein
I think everybody is getting off topic here. The challenge wasn't a list of your *favorite* cartridges, but the most *significant* ones. The really historically important units that helped shape all that followed them. At least that's how I read the post.
Using that criteria this is my list.
(In no particular order, and mostly off the top of my head. Errors are no doubt present)
1. The Grado (first moving-coil cartridge)
2. GE VRI (first mass produced magnetic cartridge)
3. Shure M3D (first mass produced stereo magnetic cartridge in the USA)
4. Weathers (first strain gague/FM pickup)
5. ADC XLM (first cartridge to truly start the high compliance onslaught)
6. Whatever the first CD-4 cartridge with the Shibata stylus was. (I can't find it! LOL)
7. Ortofon SPU (one of the world's first stereo cartridges, and still competitive today!)
8. Denon 103 (A workhorse that is still in production and influential)
9. The Pickering (first microgroove cartridge)
10. Kōetsu MC cartridges (The first significant Moving Coil cartridge of the modern "High-End" era.)
Agree with inclusion of earlier ADC cartridges as starting the 'compliance wars', though the honor for that should go to the earlier ADC 25/26 models. Had off- the- chart compliance that made the later XLM seem stiff by comparison.
"The awesome super cartridge ADC XLM and ZLM Improved, the incredible, irreplacable B&O MMC20 CL and the legendary Audio Technic AT-20 SLa Limited Edition."
Wide soundstage and very detailed sound reproduction.
Other notable cartridges I have listened to:
- Micro-Acoustics 2002e
- Shure V-15 Type II
- Pickering XSV/3000
1. Technics 205c MkIV with Jico SAS Stylus
2. Technics 205c MkIII with 206ED stylus (Also with SAS Stylus and original)
3. Lyra Helikon, for the detail
4. Technics 205C Mk II-L with 206ED stylus. (Also kicks with SAS stylus as a super dynamic cartridge with thunderous bass)
5. Denon 304, remarkable detail and kicking dynamics though with unnatural tone
6. Garrott FGS MM lively and detailed with great bass. Clued me in that there is a good reason to listen to MMs.
7. AT15Ss wonderful detail and delicacy, good bass and dynamics
8. Van Den Hul Frog For delicacy and ease of listening with good dynamics
9. Ortofon OM30 and OM40. Great all rounders use the shibata on non pristine records because the FG stylus on the 40 will play the dirt as well as it plays the music.
10. Ortofon MC 30 and MC25FL great all rounder, nearly as good as their top MM's superior detail but less bass and dynamics
11. V 15 Type IV MR very good all rounder, super tracker, but somewhat deadend sound The Lenco 75 livened it up considerably, the P3 did not like it at all.
12. AT OC-9
There are others worth mentioning but I am over the limit already
If you liked the Technics 205s I assume you've never heard the Technics 100 Mk4. It's the same family only obviously superior.
And in general, no one listed any Deccas, strange.
I have read about the Technics 100s alot but aside from lusting after them and looking for someone who can let me hear it, I gave up on owning one because of the lack of styli on the market. I did learn that the 205C MkIV is a on par with the 100 Mk2, but that the 100 MkIV is so much better.
Another unobtanium cartridge I want is the Denon DL1000, also the AT integrated headshell cartridges from ca. 1980
I loved the dynamic impact and intensity of the Deccas but could not live with any other of their characteristics.
"I have read about the Technics 100s alot but aside from lusting after them and looking for someone who can let me hear it, I gave up on owning one because of the lack of styli on the market."
-------
Peter Ledermann at Soundsmith will rebuild most of the cartridges mentioned in this thread. He replaced the cantilever and diamond on my Fidelity Research FR-1 MK3F. Used a ruby cantilever.
Ron
Thanks Ron
I know of the retipping service and the place to go is to Van Den Hul since they have stocks of cantilever materials other than the new ruby and diamond sticks. I keep thinking the ruby is too stiff to have any self damping - which is an iffy idea for a cartridge carefully designed around another cantilever material.
In any case, the cost is $250 minimum, $500 at Van Den Hul - per pop.
How did the retip work out on your FR? Did you end up getting the same stylus shape? How did the sound characteristics change?
"I keep thinking the ruby is too stiff to have any self damping - which is an iffy idea for a cartridge carefully designed around another cantilever material... How did the retip work out on your FR? Did you end up getting the same stylus shape? How did the sound characteristics change?"The original FR1-MK3F I recall used a hollow aluminum cantilever. It is very soft, as I found out when I tried to straighten it after one of my young children put a right angle bend in it. However, while soft aluminum gives you a gut feel of having some damping, it is operated well within the elastic limit, and should contribute no damping to the cantilever. The big difference between aluminum and ruby is that the E value or Young's Modulus is about 5 times higher. That means for the same cross section it is about 5 times stiffer and will have a much higher resonant frequency. I would hope it is well beyond the audible frequency. FR claimed a response of the original cartridge out to 40 kHz. I would expect it is even higher now. Value?? Ruby should give a flatter response, but perhaps only at the frequencies that don't count much anyway.
Since my cartridge went through a transition stage where it played (but not very well with the self straightened cantilever) before it was rebuilt properly, I don't really have a good before and after comparison. Given that, I don't notice any significant change. Perhaps it has a slightly lower output, but that is just by ear, no measurements to back it up. I think Peter does good work, but it did take months to get it done. I went for the nude line contact diamond. Peter said it matched the original FR one the closest.
Ron
Edits: 09/20/11
I did a bit of a comparison and found al barrel and stick cantilevers had a distinct coloration particularly noticeable on vocals and imbued everything with a sense of unnatural tone. This was not pronounced with tapered al cantilevers, particularly short ones. The titanium cantilever on the 205 IIx did not have that coloration at all, nor did boron cantilevers. I did not try ruby and diamond but there may be a dyna in my future at some point so eventually I'll find out.
The Al cantilever sound was really bad on the Linn Troika, which is a Supex.
Perhaps I will have the 205cMk3 retipped at soundsmith and decide on a 100 after the experience.
....it would easily make my top ten...maybe even top three.
Waxxy
The Dyna Karat 17D3 is my top cartridge in my limited mix. I have the Benz Glider SL, Denon DL-103R, Dyna 20XH, and the Dyna Karat 17D3. The Dyna 17D3 is my top pick.
nt
1. ADC XLM and its early offspring in the XLM line.
2. grace f9e (would really love a f9r)
3. AT ML170 and 150.
4. AT oc9
5. ortofon Kontrapunkt b
6. stanton 881s
7. grado sig 8mz
8. sonus blue (a direct descendant of XLM)
9. micro-acoustics 2002e
10. (on the wish list) soundsmith Strain Gauge!
i have owned or own all but the Kb (spent more than many hours listening to it at my friend's house), the sonus (see comment on Kb), and the strain gauge which you see is on the wish list.
...regards...tr
I too have considered the SoundSmith Strain Gauge, but I gotta improve my table some more- the next move will probably be an Advanced Analog MG-1 air bearing linear tracking arm!).
His stylus/cantilever upgrades/repairs are top notch, so I can only dream of just how good the Strain Gauge is!!!
"If the audio industry built gear that sounded as good as it did 50 years ago, there would NEVER be a need to re-issued anything!"
Gotta chime in with a few (haven't heard 10 in total that I like...yet). This is more of a list of carts I've had and really liked. Not in any order of preference either...
1. Ortofon Kontrapunkt A. Does all the amazing things that MCs are known for, IMHO.
1(a) The same cart as above, but with the SoundSmith Level Two stylus/cantilever upgrade/repair. Makes a great sounding cart even better.
2. Audio Technica OC-9 ML ml II. Good starter/affordable MC. My first entry into MC land!
3. Ortofon MC-15 super mk II. Another steal for the price.
4. Shure V-15 V-MR. Had one briefly. While I wasn't blown away by the sound (it just doesn't have the dynamic swing that I crave), I was totally impressed with it's ability to track just about anything.
5. Linn K-9 MM. My first "real" MM cartridge (along with my first Linn Axis table/Akito Arm). A simple epoxy mod to the interior coils and gained some serious MC-like capabilities. Good as stock. Missed...
"If the audio industry built gear that sounded as good as it did 50 years ago, there would NEVER be a need to re-issued anything!"
can you tell me what one is to do to the K9?
I used for a few yrs, has about 500 or 600 hrs, stored.
When I first got my K-9 years ago, it was a great sounding MM cart, IMHO.I replaced the stylus on mine about three times, after which, Linn (really Audio Technica) were no longer manufacturing it (styli and carts), or else I may very well still be using it!!
When I went to replace my stylus the second time (around 1998-99), my Linn dealer buddy suggested that a great way to increase the "information retrieval" (as Linnies put it) was to do the following-
1. Take the stylus off (of course!)
2. Remove the top screw and take off the 1/2 mounting flange (by unscrewing the top screw), exposing the metal shield.
3. This shield can then gently be pried open and off (it does need to bend a little).
4. You will see the exposed coils (top and sides)and stylus magnet openings (bottom). Take some 5 minute epoxy (or similar) and apply on and around the coils. be careful NOT to get any into the magnet slots or anywhere that doesn't need it. The idea being is that you want to pot the coils only.
5. Reassemble the cart (reverse steps 3, 2, and 1) and let dry for a good amount of time (a day, IIRC).
6. Re-mount and re-balance the cart (it WILL be slightly heavier with the extra mass from the epoxy).
What you should hear- a cleaner presentation- more focus without extra hardness- better instrument separation.
Overall, I thought it extended the dynamics quite nicely as well... I kind of miss mine, but I'm not hooked on MCs, tubes, and dipole speakers/subs.
I do not know to this day where he got this idea from. Ironically, I epoxy the coils of guitar/bass pickups as well- mostly with the same results!
Good luck if you attempt this!
Dman
"If the audio industry built gear that sounded as good as it did 50 years ago, there would NEVER be a need to re-issued anything!"
I'll put a plug in for:
Fidelity Research FR1-MK3F
Ron
got it nos from a friend, excellent.
...regards...tr
I haven't heard many of what a lot of folks consider to be great cartridges. I've never heard a Koetsu, Fidelity Research, Grace F9e, Decca, or many others.
I've owned some great cartridges, but would only call three of them significant:
Ortofon SPU-GTE: I owned one about two years ago and it had to be at least 30 years old. It blew me away.
Dynavector Karat 23R: First to use a ruby cantilever (?) ...and an incredibly short one at that.
Denon DL-160: Positively outstanding bang-for-the-buck. For cheapskates like me, that is significant.
I've owned a few really good cartridges (Accuphase AC2, Madrigal Carnegie One, Audio Technica AT33PTG), but I don't think any of them offered anything "significant."
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
First of all this is a really hard thing to limit to just 10. Some of the entries below are listed based upon a series of cartridges. Some of each of those series were better than others. Some may have been forgettable. Some were great and thats why the series is listed.1) Ortofon MC A90 (ground breaking sound)
2) Fidelity Research FR1 Mk 3 (a great cartridge is a great cartridge)
3) Denon DL-103 series (timeless)
4) ADM XLM series (IMO one of the best MM ever made)
5) Shure V15 series (not my favorite but you have to give respect where its due)
6) Ortofon SPU series (no list of great cartridges is worth its salt without these)
7) Madrigal Carnegie One
8) Koetsu (all of them for one reason or another)
9) Grado Signature 8MZ (another classic)
10) SoundSmith Strain Gauge Cartridge SystemThat's my attempt of the best 10 cartridges. They are in not particular order and 1 - 10 does not denote any ranking.
Note that the Lyra cartridges deserve to be in anyone's top list as well as Transfigration or Allaerts (not to mention the Grace F9) so please forgive my not including them in the above list. Again, I only had 10 things to list...
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Edits: 09/19/11
?
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
And didn't care for either. Neither am I a fan of AT cartridges.
I only have heard the Sonus stuff once, very long ago, and it didn't leave a lasting impression.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Opus 104
Opus 104
Well Henry,
If that's what you would like (I would hate to break your protocol ) here you go !
GE VR
Ortofon MC series moving coils
Shure V15 (all genre's)
ADC XLM (MKI& MKII versions)
Grado FT/ Signature series
Grace F9 series
Audio Technica AT15sa
Supex SD900e
Fidelity Research FR1 mkIIIf
Koetsu Black
"B" team
ADC220
Pickering PAT
Stanton 680 Series
Sonus Blue (Peter Pritchard is pretty well represented on my list)
B&O MMC series
Denon DL103 series
Opus 104
Henry,
By the time the 881 came out I had moved on to the Supex and Fidelity Research so quite honestly I just never listened to the 881 in a system I was familiar with. Personally I don't believe in commenting on anything I have not owned or at least had long term exposure to in a system I am very familiar with. So yes I have owned (and still do own most of) the Cartridges I listed. Oh and I forgot one of my all time favorite cartridges on my top ten list. The sure Ultra 500. Hope this explains the 881 omission.
Currently I am using the following:
Grace F9ruby in My upgraded Rega P1, a Denon DL160 in a modified Music Hall 2.2, Ortofon X1MCP's in both a Technics SLT7 and a SLT5, A Sony XLT55 in a Linn LP12 with A MMT arm and finally an AT30HE in an upgraded Project Debut III.
I just picked up a Zu Dl 103 2% and find it to be a bargain in the price to performance arena. Paqst favorites are the Ortofon Kontrapunkt B and the Rega Exact.
No particular order but here goes:
1. RCA Mono cartridges
2. Ortofon SPUs
3. EMT monos and stereo
4. Decca London
5. Shure V15s
6. ADC XLM
7. Stanton 681s
8. B&O moving iron cartridge
9. Grado moving iron cartridges
10. Koetsu cartridges
11. Miyabi Standard
12. Benz Ebony TR
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
Great list and while I have a DL103S I still lust for the "D" version which was light years better.
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