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I know that MFSL LP’s have gotten a bad wrap by some here, but for the heck of it I pulled out My Cat Steven's Teaser And The Firecat (I have not listened to this in years) and it is one great sounding record. No sign of the bloated bass many here talk about, the record sounds very well balanced, the bass lays down a firm foundation for the rest of the music, the acoustic guitars sound particularly good. Cat Steven's vocals sound like he is in the room. All in all a very good LP, much better then my original US A&M copy of the same.
Next I am going to pull out my copy of the Allman Brothers Brothers & Sisters and see how that one compares to the original Capricorn version I have.
Jeff
We’re Burning Daylight
Follow Ups:
I'm fairly certain that the original UK release of 'Teaser' was what's known-of as the Island 'sunburst' label.
I've got that and the Japanese pressing I'll compare them tonight and get back to you.
I haven't got the MFSL.
On my system, compared to both a nice Island 3u/3u pink rim and an A&M WLP, the MFSL guitars sound stripped of all there body. Like a guitar pick strumming a wash board. Cat's voice sounds oddly thin and harsh. Just dooesn''t have any of the midrange sweetness of the originals.
I've had both the original Pink Island and the MFSL Cat Stevens other LP "Tea for the Tillerman" and the MFSL totally creamed the UK Island pressing that I purchased new in the late 1970's. Especially in the "sound of the wood" of the body of the guitar. The MFSL just sounded more like a guitar and I play acoustic guitar! And the warmth in Cat Stevens voice on the MFSL is to die for.
I don't know about "Teaser and The Firecat" as I have only heard the US pressing of this one and based on that I don't think it was as well recorded as "Tea for the Tillerman".
"Music is love"
Teresa
If you purchased Tea new in the late 70's, I can't imagine it's that hot.
I have to disagree at least on my system it beats the A&M original by a wide margin. I don’t have the Island version to compare it with so I can’t speak to that, but on my system the guitars sound full and definitely not like a wash board, and his voice sound very much like he is in the room.
Jeff
We’re Burning Daylight
I use my MFSL rarely. Good as they are, most of them are dead.
This is a non-cryogenically treated Signature
Today more than ever we have to consider whether our tonearm is set properly for all the different weight LPs we have available. Ideally that requires an arm with on-the-fly VTA adjustment and ignoring that requirement means you are accepting a compromise. Those who accept that compromise still post about the best pressing of this or that LP but IMO they are not qualified to make such statements if they cannot adjust their playback equipment to adapt to the differences in those LPs.The thickness/weight of the vinyl is not the only concern. The standard MFSL pressings are no thicker than commercial pressings of their day but to get the proper playback they require that your arm be set to the approximate thickness of a 160-180gm LP. They are not alone and Nautilus pressings require the tail end of the arm be up slightly higher than the MFSL pressings. There are numerous examples of LPs even from the same manufacturer that require slghtly different settings for optimum results.
This is most noticable on LPs with abundant bass. The bass information will overwhelm the balance and will make the playback sound muddy unless you have the tonearm set properly. Its not a scientific secret or a matter of national security...they are just cut differently.
You can take this to a level of obsession or just get used to what settings are best for which LPs and make that change before spinning. Personally I only try to fine tune the VTA when I am recording the LPs to CDR. Otherwise I set it to a close approximation and let it spin.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Ed,
I agree I think that MFSL has gotten a bad rap here, for the most part I think that their LP’s are very good. BTW the Teaser is a 200G version.
Jeff
We’re Burning Daylight
A small adjustment, even a quarter turn on the little screw collar that supports my arm, can easily effect the sound, as it brings the playback tip closer to the original cutting angle, which is, of course, unknown.
It's such a simple thing, but spoken of as though it is complicated by those who don't do it. I don't do it every play, but I've never spent more than a moment or two on the adjustment, even when I had an arm that was not designed for other than set and forget adjustment.
You can hear it, that 's what makes it so easy. Once in a while for critical listening, I will dial in the tip.
Although I think every person in the world is one in some parameter.
Perfection is a wonderful quest if you possess the patience to do so. For most people, "really fucking good" (from this point on referred to as RFG) is enough. Turning a fifteen minute per side (+/-) experience into a 20 minute per side experience is not my cup of tea.
But we need perfectionists to assure that those who feel RFG is good enough have someone watching where that watching is of GREAT importance, the manufacturing of the LP. Sadly, those records you obsess over have not, in many, many instances, been processed with that level of perfection. Unless, of course, you never listen to anything but audiophile approved LPs.
Placing limits on anything is dangerous; placing limits that remove choices is just plain wrong.
But what do I know, I'm an obsessive/compulsive. But not when it concerns anything outside of the music. RFG is good enough for me.
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There is more medicine in a single song than any hospital.
I'm really not VTA obsessive but more of a casual user of the adjustment. I do try to get it right if I am recording to CDR but for the most part I can give a slight nudge to the VTAF before cueing the LP and that is my limit of obsession.
The real reason for my post was the passionate claims made around here by people who won't go that extra step. My point was if someone was going to make a claim about this or that pressing being great/garbage then it would be a touch more honest if they actually made that extra effort and really leveled the playing field.
There are numerous disingenuous posts about LPs being too bloated or too thin and I suspect that for the most part a fair VTA adjustment would change the results. If someone is going to make an authorative statement should we expect less?
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Can you tame the highs or lows with VTA, of course, but if they're way off, no amount of VTA adjustment will save them.
It doesn't take state of the art equipment to reveal the really great records. The same records I've raved about since I first got into this obby with a TD160 and a B&K preamp with a Van Alstine Dyna 120 amp, sounded great with my Marantz integrated and the Thorens, or the VPI HW19 Mk. 1 with the B&K and Van Alstine.
Yes, more information can be dug from the grooves with paying strict attention to every detail. I just want to hear music issuing forth from my gear...well recorded, fabulous, not so well recorded? Well that's fabulous many times, too. More info and better sound over all with strict attention to VTA is work I don't have time for, I need to listen to more records.
The point I'm trying to make is that obsessiveness is important to the obsessive. AND, that in certain situations, such as your quest for a great CDR, it's fine.
For me, however, I can't say I don't get obsessive with VTA from time to time. As I wrote earlier, I just get to a point where I say "the hell with it, play another record, Mike."
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There is more medicine in a single song than any hospital.
maintain the fact that a one stop no adjustment VTA approach (either by choice or by limit of the gear) limits the enjoyment of the user. A lot of LPs are fairly close in the way they are mastered. From what I've read that is the way the mastering engineer wants it to be. The mass audience won't want to fool around with VTA or any such nonsense. They just want to stick the LP on and enjoy the music.
Such is the way it should be but there are very real exceptions. I'm not talking about just missing a little of this or that but a real incompatible nature and its not that the music isn't there to be enjoyed, it just requires the extra step.
Back in 1982 a tonearm was on the market for a short period of time. The tonearm was the LOCI and the manufacturer went through a good deal of work comparing LPs from different manufacturers. They published those findings with the appropriate settings on their tonearm's VTA adjustment so the end user could enjoy what they owned to that nth degree (link below...just for laughs).
While that might be a bit much for your average user and I don't even go through all the pains normally it is worth noting that the potential exists that we aren't hearing everything that there is to be had. Considering the nature of the inmates here and their willingness to spend thousands on a system it is somewhat inconsistent to ignore the VTA adjustment thing. I mean we spend thousands and then short change ourselves. It is human.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
But I do it occasionally, not so much with the Dyna, it doesn't seem to react too much to any change...but the Win sure does!
But even then I don't do it very often at all.
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There is more medicine in a single song than any hospital.
As many know I sold my original SOTA Comet / Alpha Genesis 1000II MC combo and went digital because of my compulsive nature. I was always adjusting the VTA and spent more time doing that than listening to music.
After dialing it in "perfectly" the first few times getting maximum Goosebumps and soaking in all the magically beautiful music I was hooked! After that no LP ever sounded "correct" and I was always going "up", "down", "up", "down" again and again. I would seem I would get close going one way and then overshoot and then back the other direction. It was driving me perfectly mad. I got so depressed with the whole affair I sold my turntable and all my LPs as I could get about 80% of the sound with HDCD's and they always sounded the same.
Well this time I promised myself NO VTA obsessiveness , I have left my Music Hall mmf-5 at the factory VTA setting. If I ever use a different brand of cartridge I will set it once and forget it, I hope! I am scarred to try another brand of cartridge through.
I love my LPs and I just want to play them, not twiddle with my turntable.
"Music is love"
Teresa
IMO, 'Catch Bull at Four' was a much better Steven's album, both in songs and recording. The wonder is why it has never been reissued?
I agree with you Catch Bull is my favorite of what I believe are this golden albums, Tea For The Tellerman, Teaser And The Firecat & Catch Bull At Four.
Jeff
We’re Burning Daylight
.
...because of a bit of a financial setback. Hopefully before the year end I will be able to make the purchase. So for now I will suffer thru with my ScoutMaster. I did pick-up a new phono preamp an Art Audio Vinyl Reference which I like a lot, had it about 3 weeks, got a real good deal on it used.
Jeff
We’re Burning Daylight
.
Yup I really enjoy it, the only thing on my which list would be a remote to change the loading the phase, it is a pain to have to jump up, mute the preamp change loading, un-mute and listen makes it a bit hard to dail in the best setting.
Jeff
We’re Burning Daylight
I have dreams about having a rig with remote everything. Press a button and you can fine tune the VTF, VTA, 33/45/78, change between multiple tonearms, fine tune the loading, capacitance, gain and the volume...of course. It usually ends with that women with the big...well you know.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
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