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I have always wondered about this so I thought I would post it here and see what everyone knows about cartridge life. In particular I am talking about a Shelter 90X but in general any new cartridge that has been well cared for, how many hours can one expect to get from it before it's worn out. I have always thought in terms of thousands of hours. Many thousands but this is just a pure guess on my part. Anyone have any knowledgable ideas?
Follow Ups:
I get about 1500 hours on my Benz Ruby. Re-tipping is far less expensive than buying a new cartidge. Not too bad once you make the initial purchase. Also, if you dont use a record cleaning machine, the life is shorter.
...experience or a gut feel? (re: RCMs)the reason i ask is that, respectfully, 2 manufacturers of cartridges and turntables told me that while record cleaning makes a difference in getting better sound out of LPs it has no appreciable affect on the natural lifetime of a cartridge -- at least for those w/ high-end line-contact styli.
I found one for $2 at Goodwill that has 100X/200X/300X. The thing is made up of different parts screwed together, including the stage, so that it can be modified to use a stylus holder of sorts or whatever. But just using it as it is, with two miniature LED flashlights, I can see the tip very clearly.
Shure recommends a 200 power microscope with dual side lights. You actually look at the reflections of the parts of the stylus that contact the LP. For each type of stylus (conical, elliptical, etc), their manual has three photos, showing a new stylus, a partially worn stylus, and a stylus that is worn out. Even with all the above, some experience/expertise is required. You can't just buy a scope and expect to accurately assess condition right off the bat.
You need more than just a microscope.Wear is very subtle and hard to define without being very familiar with the look of the stylus (and it's particular cut & polish) when it was new.
So unless you have a good reference point of what it looked like new, looking at a used stylus may do you no real good at all if you do not know what it looked like before it was worn.
Gross damage can be found with a 30x loupe.
--
Al G
Born To Tinker!
Do you enjoy an occasional cocktail?Unfortunately are many factors which influence cartridge life besides number of hours. :-(
.
Though if you get the shakes, a drink might be more safe for your vinyl.
:p
Under normal circumstances without the use of stylast, a stylus with as little as 500 hours already sound appreciably worse than brand new. The extreme high frequencies are the first thing to go as the tip's polish disappears.So it is totally up to you. You may not be hurting your LP's by playing a stylus for 1000+ hours, but you will not be hearing the cartridge's true potential either.
Cheers,
Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell me by the way I walk....
-Ray
With a cart like the Shelter it's an expensive method, but i mainly use budget vintage MM's on old TT. I just got a Garrard SP25mk2 with a Shure M71MB cart with a stylus that has exactly the same white plastic part as a Shure M44MB stylus. I got 2 SP25's with a JVC amp AND a perfect Pioneer Pl-12 for 10 euro on a fleamarket. I gave one of the SP25's to my sister's boyfriend but he gave it back to me, my sister convinced him of the necessity of cleaning up the attic....
Anyway, the other SP25 , which had a broken motor, had a Shure M44MB cart so basically i have a M44MB with original stylus for free. Long introduction right?
When i listen to the original but used Shure stylus it's kinda OK, no excessive groove noise, no major distortion. But when i insert a brand new stylus into the M44MB it sounds much clearer and cleaner. That's the difference between a used stylus and a brand new one. So when you play with a budget MM cart, buy 2 brand new stylii. Play with one and store the other one. Compare after 6 months. By ear. Even if you have a decent microscope you have to know exactly what to look for to detect damage on a stylus.
"The torture never stops"
I copied this awhile ago:Conical - <700 hrs
Elliptical - 1500+ hrs
micro line, ridge - 2000-2500 hrs
vdH, Shibata, FG - 2500-4000 hrs
> > Conical - <700 hrs
> > Elliptical - 1500+ hrs
> > micro line, ridge - 2000-2500 hrs
> > vdH, Shibata, FG - 2500-4000 hrsWhat is the correlation between stylus profile, stylus life and record wear? Seeing those numbers, my intuition is that Conical causes much more wear to records than FG, vdH and such.
One salesperson said, "Brian, you clean all your records and keep the diamond clean and don't play junk; it'll last forever". No sales pitch attached, hmmmm.Another Salesperson (I've purchased gear from both) suggest 5000+ and with my regime, I should expect many more hours than my approximated 4000+ hours to date. There was dicussion of upgrading, not replacing.
I would like to add that I feel the cartridge sounds as good as it did new, 6 years ago.
Salesperson #1, did offer for $200 he would look at the diamond and redo the entire setup of my gear (VPI MkIII/JMW10/Benz Silver).
Shibata, Gyger, van den Hul, line contact type. This also depends on how clean you keep the stylus and the LPs you play and how accurately you set VTF, VTA, etc.
Henry
Jonathan Carr, the designer of Lyra cartridges, claims 2500-hours for some of his.
but when you equate that to 1,500 lp's it sort of brings it back into perspective. I listen to approx6 lp's Monday to Friday so that's 30 per week. Looks like I should be looking to replace my stylus every 12 months. Would you get more out of the stylus if it is well looked after and your lp's are extremely clean. I am using an AT440Mla and do you know what life expectancy these stlii have?
OLLY
http://www.ortofon.com/html/profile.asp
at least 1,500 hours out of the 440's MicroLine stylus and possibly closer to 2,000. AT's estimate of 1,000 hours is ultra conservative. IMO.
Henry
claims upwards of 4,000 (to 6,000) and has said that cleaning the records has no impact whatsoever on stylus life. (not to start a debate about whether cleaning records, in general, is good or bad -- his point was simply that dust & small particles have no effect on stylus wear. if one is playing records with bigger junk & through sticky messes, that is a different point altogether.)
Henry
...also said the same thing. perhaps it is dependent upon the cartridge, though.not trying to start a war, just saying that there are alternate opinions out there.
Henry, can you expand a little more on why do you disagree? Is it based on controlled tests of playing dirty vs clean LPs & determining the usable life? What line-contact cartridges have you used? The 20X-L moved towards a line-contact (sorta), no?
the people involved are actually proponents of cleaning records -- but the comment was that it will have no measurable affect on the life of the cartridge.
the grit in the grooves, but nobody can convince me said grit has no effect on stylus life. To my mind it has to.
Henry
but it could also be that the grit's affect is very, very minor relative to the life of the stylus. there could be an "effect"...but a marginal one at that.i guess the "it has to" have an effect argument doesn't hold much water for me; a controlled experiment would be most interesting. i'm guessing the 2 people i spoke with probably know the product best and are more likely to know the actual effect of most dirty vinyl on certain stylus shapes.
NB: we're talking more dirty/dusty records here than "trashed" records covered in "gunk".
I cannot believe that any manufacturer or seller of audio gear would try wasting their records or stylii to prove this dirt not matter point. How can they be sure that my dust and grit is cleaner than theirs ?(LOL)
I have a few vintage cartridges that have multi-thousands of hours on them ! For the last 17 years, I use an Ortofon SPU/SPE elliptical, with its step-up trannies riding tandem in the headshell ! Over 8000 hours is an (easily beat) estimation. I keep my records and stylus clean with Discwasher products, and often, simply use the Discwasher record brush dry, without fluid.
Above, someone claimed that elliptical and microridge/line contact types last longer ? I dispute that claim, as conicals make the least contact with the groove. I have more than a few, very well used 45+ year old conicals, that look clean under <80X magnification, while some of my line contact types quickly show black markings, inside the tips, albeit still very useable.
I hope that some manufacturer would step up to the plate on this cool thread. Diamonds can be forever...
it is good to know that 2 years should not harm my lp's. Is that a veiled attempt by you to concede I have clean lp's, nice of you.
OLLY
clean LPs from many different methods.
Henry
I have always been a believer of "Whatever Tickles Your Fancy' as long as we are happy. As for the AT440Mla I have found it to live up to all the hype that surrounded it's adulation here on the asylum. Tracks faultlessly and delivers what I believe a natural sound. Great lows and top end in my system and is a great match for the rest of the components.
OLLY
...With the "Touche'" BS. You just can resist every opportunity to shill "OLLYwash". Your joust is with windmills.Some prefer to use a commercial product, designed for the job, proved by time to do the job of cleaning their records safely and effectively.
Because you have decided that using some other type of cleaner on your records is good practice *FOR YOU*, does not mean *EVERYONE ELSE* has to use an unknown and widely unavailable, undocumented, mystery solvent like you do.
Damn man...F&^king get over it already.
--
Al G
Born To Tinker!
This was a fun post until you had to spoil it. I should have known that it is impossible to not be serious here.
OLLY
Without a single "smiley" in the entire thread, the humor was just too obvious.I'll tell ya what, My opinion on the matter is mine. Keep on Keep'n on there, Don.
--
Al G
Born To Tinker!
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