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Anyone done any listening comparisons? They are both in same ballpark, price wise. Would be interesting to contrast their two very differing approaches...
Follow Ups:
Thanks to all who have answered! This is the kind of illuminating discussion you will NEVER see in any of the audio rags. Thanks kindly to inmate Cougar, who has supplied me with information on replacing the motor and bearing of my Teres, should I ever need to. Seems better to stick with what I know.
All these tables are so great now that you can't really make a mistake. I just want to pass on my experience but I used to own an SE with a Orbe platter and a UP4. An outstanding table/arm combo.... but I subsequently purchased a Well Tempered Simplex and then Amadeus and I have to say they plainly sounded better in my system and setup was ridiculously easy.
In making your choice I would add the consideration that the Gyrodek is built to last forever with all components easily replaceable by the owner. Upgrades are therefore easily fitted in due course should you so wish e.g the Gert Petersen armboard modification, Orbe platter etc. It also has a tiny footprint which is desirable for some installations.
However I do feel bound to mention that, as the owner of a modified Michell Orbe which has most parts in common to the Gyrodek, I am none too happy with the current manufacturing standard of the drive belts and am fortunate to have a couple of old stock ones. That is really old stock btw and therefore very much NLA.
Hi Marc -Looks like the C Major is showing a retail price of $2,774 with arm. The Michell Gyro SE retail is $2795 without arm, so you will have to budget for an arm on top of the cost of the Gyro. Gyro with Rega RB202 special looks like it retails for $3630.
Real world looks more like this: C Major with arm is $2495 (Audio Advisor). Gyro with Rega RB202 is $3259 (Galen Carol).
Diff of about $750. More if you want a better arm for the Gyro.
I cannot help you with a comparison, but I can try to answer any Gyro SE questions you may have. I currently use one. I also have a Michell Tecnodec.
Craig
Edits: 12/07/16 12/07/16
Thanks gentleman both of you for your replies! Schlep: You're the perfect one to ask: How much difference to you hear between your Tecnodec and your Gyro SE? It is difficult to keep the suspension of the Gyro in balance? I already have a Moerch UP4, so I'd only need an armboard for that arm if I went with the Gyro.
Hi, Marc,
I really enjoy my Gyro SE. It was a stretch for budget but I don't regret the investment. The Moerch UP4 was one of three tonearms I was considering, ending up with a SME 309.
As for the armboard (it's more like a mounting plate), make sure that you know how much the UP4 weighs so you can order the correct tonearm mounting plate. I found that it's very important to have the chassis evenly balanced to get the "Gyro bounce".
The correct weight of the tonearm and mounting plate (and hardware) is supposedly 1000g but I had problems with the stock SME 309 mounting plate supplied by Michell Engineering. It weighed about 135g too much so I had to replace it with an acrylic plate weighing 105g; total weight = 720g (tonearm) + 55g (hardware/DIN connector) + 105g (plate) = 880g. Michell Engineering didn't know why there was such a discrepancy but I wasn't the only one that had problems with getting the chassis balanced using the stock mounting plate.
I suggest you consult with Artech Electronics to make sure you end up with the correct plate and that they'll stand behind the plate they send you. You could ask here at the vinyl asylum to see what other UP4/Gyro SE users have to say. Maybe even get a measured weight of the plate they're using.
I also recommend that you get the Orbe Clamp upgrade kit. Having a threaded clamp on a suspended chassis is important in order to get the right clamping tension on the LP. With the stock clamp it requires you to exert a fair amount of down force and it just didn't seem like a good thing for the suspension in the long run.
Regards,
Tom
I hope that Schlep will forgive me for butting in a little here.The suspension on the Gyrodek and Orbe are identical. As indeed are the decks save for the platter and the damping compound applied to the Orbe's sub-chassis and, depending vintage, the motor housing and/or PS. I can therefore speak from 20 year's experience in setting the suspension.
It is very easy to do. You just remove the suspension tower covers, rotate the nurled screws at the top to adjust suspension height and the rubber doughnuts to centre it. A tip is to place a lamp in front of the 'table so that it casts a shadow on the wall behind. Then, when you bounce the platter to see if it is moving evenly in a vertical plane, look at the shadow which will magnify the movement. All is done from the top so there is no need to find a way of fiddling around underneath as there is with some suspended turntables like the Linn LP12. Once set it remains set.
As for the drive belts my experience with the 4 belts I have tried this year is that the elastomer currently in use and the manner of the belt's packing will not guarantee that they remain perfectly circular, thus causing speed fluctuation. However, for all I know they may have resolved the elastomer situation and/or have altered the packing method since the early summer. I did ask them to.
Edits: 12/09/16
Long time Gyro user here (30 years) as well.
Definitely some serious problems with belts in the past couple of years.
I tend to replace belts every 2-3 years and the two that I bought about 12-16 months ago were simply unusable out of the bag with audible wow and flutter. I should have asked for a refund from the dealer I buy from (I'm in Canada) but they were a relatively small item so I resurrected the older belts I had around and went another 8 months to a year with them.
When I went back to order another couple of belts (figuring it was just a defective batch that I got) my dealer told me that the Michell distributor in North America did not currently have any belts and that they were changing the manufacturing/sourcing for belts as there had been problems and that the dealer would notify me when they came in. I got some new belts again in the past 4-5 months and they are definitely better, although obviously different material and they seem to be ridged on either side of the belt, which the older belts were not, which I'm not thrilled about. Not sure if they are as good as the older, pre-problem belt/design though.
The latest, however, seem to be ok, but it's given me thought to maybe try a couple of the aftermarket belts available on Ebay next time. I know someone that just bought a few of those so will let them be the guinea pig and see how they work out for them.
But there have definitely been belt problems at Michell in the past 18 motnhs.
I am glad to find another Gyrodek user echoing my problem with recent drive belts. Here are two pictures ( sorry for the orienation, I have tried to rotate but they still load like this into the AA message box).
As you can see one is circular, forming an elipse when suspended from a single point. That is an old stock belt. The other picture is of a new belt and displays irremovable kinks, each one of which results in a speed fluctation when it meets the platter. Incidentally this ia after attempts to stretch and pull the belt into shape. Straight out of the pack and the result is sconsiderably worse than in this image.
The inferiority of the new belt is also measurable and very audible. The old belt providing a superb speed accuracy of 3149.8 Hz for a test tone of 3150 Hz with a deviation ( speed variation across the test period) of only 0.5% max. The new belt gives a reading of 3178.5Hz and a deviation of 1.31%. So, given that the old belt is at least 5 years old means that the old belts give a service life considerably in excess of 2-3 years ( although that may depend upon intensity of usage).
The ribbed belts recently available are the result of an attempt to improve things by altering the moulding process. They are not using a new supplier just changing things a bit with ( as far as I can tell) no positive result. "Ribbed for extra pleasure" does not appply here :-)
Hi, PAR,
I'm glad I held off on ordering a replacement belt. Eager to hear if Michell Engingeering fixed the problem with the newer belts.
Regards,
Tom
" Eager to hear if Michell Engingeering fixed the problem with the newer belts "
I wouldn't rush. That kinked belt in my picture was new stock from June. New at the factory that is. So 5 months or so old. As they have to order from their supplier in quantity I am going to leave it another 6 months before I approach them again. Frankly my impression is that although they know it is a problem and have known for ages, they don't have much idea of how to resolve it.
The reason for the change is now several years old. The Japanese manufacturer of the original belt ceased to make it and would/could no longer supply Michell even given their request to pay for a custom manufacturing run.
Had I not discovered an old, used but still good, belt in my spares I would now be looking at an alternative brand of turntable. Sad for such an otherwise superb table offering exceptional value.
It's funny that you commented about having to purchase a completely different turntable because you're unable to find a belt that works correctly. I was recently thinking about that reality with any belt-drive turntable: What happens when the (correct) belt is no longer manufactured?The Gyro is a 'table that could last for decades with proper care yet be rendered useless without a simple loop of synthetic polymer.
Makes me wonder why we audiophiles don't insist on belt-drive turntable platters driven by belts made from universally available materials. The motors and pulleys could be somewhat proprietary and yet easily substituted (if you don't care about OEM integrity) and belts could be essentially interchangeable, with a range of standardized lengths. Like windshield wipers or toilet seals, only audiophile. '-)
Tom
Edits: 12/10/16
Forgot to comment on the Gyro suspension in my last post... It didn't take me to long to get it where I believe I got 'the bounce' right. Once set I've had no problems with it staying true.
From what I gather, easier to get the suspension set than on an LP12. Apparently they can be quite frustrating, even for dealers.
Craig
Marc -
I agree with PAR's comments above regarding product longevity, build, etc. I have not noticed a problem with the belts, but I've not replaced them yet. PAR obviously has experienced some issues.
In short I believe dollar-for-dollar the Gyro is the better deck. That said, the Tecnodec is no slouch. I believe it has a bit better pacing than the Gyro. The Gyro is a bit more full sounding / harmonically correct than the Tecnodec. The Gyro has better dynamics and the more neutral tonality of the two.
FWIW, I purchase both new. I choose the Tecnodec over a Rega RP6. Owning the Tecnodec is what led me to a better table. Initially my better table was a VPI Prime. I am probably in the minority here but I did not like it. It was returned and I purchased the Gyro. As soon as I heard it I immediately liked it.
Forgot to mention, I purchased Michelle PSU Power Supply / Speed Control which I use with whichever deck is playing. The PSU is a nice upgrade.
Craig
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