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In Reply to: RE: Confused by the NY Times posted by tketcham on December 03, 2016 at 18:27:11
CDs still suck, but so do LPs manufactured off CD masters.
Follow Ups:
Just one Bear's 2-cents but "CD's suck" doesn't advance the debate. Say you're looking at 1985 CD's, versus the sound of the LP released at the same time, the window for any sort of comparison is limited. In the 80's much *real* pro recording and editing was still done on analog tape, keepin' those big Ampexes hummin'! So there was a brief era where one might compare true, all-analog recordings to their digital release. The sound of the CD was indeed objectionable. The limitations on sampling rate and bit depth were audible. A lot of this bad sound was probably due to the crap quality of the playback equipment rather than the recording and mastering, although you can't separate the two...
When digital recording and editing "took over" and everything on vinyl was recorded, mixed, downmixed, and mastered digitally, results were initially still disappointing but have continued to get better as time has brought us high sampling rate digital recording studio equipment. Google Digidesign Icon. A lot of contemporary slackers might use 48kHz but there was a lot of really crummy analog recording back-in-the-day too. And consider that you can't find one real-world audio engineer raring to go back to analog tape. The high def stuff sounds good by all accounts and a few *decent* CD's manage to squeeze out of the "shallow money-trench that is the Music Biznis." Plus audiophile playback equipment has gotten much better.
So it comes down to the same old thing- how much love the musicians, recordists and engineers put into developing the master tape (or disc, or whatever) is the primary determinant of the quality of playback in our homes. I have 3000 or so LP's, almost all pre-1985, let's say, going back to the early 60's. I have chosen my records carefully with regard FIRST to musical excellence, second with regard to sound quality. I assure you, 50% of the all-analog recording on those records is below average ;-) with many records sounding pretty damn bad. Bad enough that I consciously would choose to go out and buy a CD copy, if I wasn't such a cheapskate.
Come on-- admit it-- you have invested a $G in your CD player and maybe half your CD's don't suck!
I agree! I was selling audio equipment in the 80's. I found the first and second generation players to be not worth the bother. The first CD player that I found listenable was the ADS Altilier CD Player, but it was expensive. As they kept getting better it became apparent that what was on the disk was still a big problem. When you play a good sounding disk, such as the West Side Story CD, you realize how abysmal most CD's are. Even on a mostest player, this CD sounds quite good.
I also have many records with less than stellar sound. Recall the scene in "24 Hour Party People" we're they go outside to check their mix on a car stereo.
Dave
CDs have gotten better? How, has 16 bit magically morphed into 24 bit?
Granted that LPs can be made of lesser quality--but CDs have a built-in ceiling that LPs do not.
It's just a shame that all recordings are not made as well as they can possibly be.
I fondly remember the claim that 'digital based LPs would destroy your turntable bearings".. And for those living in a cave.. that WAS debunked.
I also enjoy platitudes. They usually make me bust out laughing..
Anyway, Listen to whatever format you enjoy.
I tossed all my 8-track years ago. But CDs? All good. LPs good too, just different.
It was the clicks that bugged me on 8-tracks, plus they were on a self-destruct mission. I almost bought a Wollensak 8-track from a thrift store but the condition was too rough. It looked like it had been thrown out of the window of a moving car.
Dave
Of course they have not increased the bit rate, but they can mix them better when they actually care.
Dave
Early on in the 80's, the words 'digitally mastered' were plastered on plenty of new LPs.
After it became passe', the notation vanished. The thing is, all the LPs then WERE digitally mastered.
Except a few small companies.SO.. In your world.. Do you refuse to own any major company LPs post 1985?
To answer my own question myself: I go on sound. Does it sound good?. And not on some trivia. IMO Concerning 'digital mastering'.. you may as well be saying you refuse to buy an LP manufactured on Wednesday. LOL
Edits: 12/04/16
I noticed that in the early 80s Pablo Digital was proudly displayed then disappeared. I guess politically corrected started then.
.
Hi, esande,
LPs from CD masters makes no sense at all. '-)
Regards,
Tom
No they don't. Unfortunately they are common.
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