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Gentlemen, I have a friend who just bought two budget turntables..the Pro-Ject Carbon DC and a Rega Planar 2.He has narrowed down a few phono stages that have gotten high marks from users. Also the small foot print is a big plus.
The Lounge Audio LCR MKIII $300
The Gramah Slee Gram Amp 2 $350
Lehmann Black Cube $400-$900?
Does anybody have DIRECT experience with any or all of these?
Also interested in commensurate Pro-Ject, Rega, Musical Fidelity, or equivalent.
Thanks gents!
Edits: 08/24/16Follow Ups:
would also suggest to add the original Phonomena, to the poster's list. They are available on the used market for about 300-350.
The Slee is a fine unit and there are options available for well under $500 from Pro-Ject, NAD and others. If you can find an old Grado PH-1 try a home audition ... this now discontinued little wood box unit is a giant killer particularly the most recent production with "computer" type power supply instead of the odious tiny wall-wart. Don't overlook the used section of your local audio store, if there is one. In the Chicago area we have Audio Consultants and unlike various on-line sites in a store you can "look and touch" to determine cosmetics etc up close. Plus Audio Consultants has a warranty on used gear and pre tests / listens.
Lounge, Cube, and Slee are final contenders. No uses, he wants to support a small manufacturer.
I had a Lehmann Black Cube...paired with Silver/Copper blend interconnects and a quality Moving Magnet cartridge; it will be hard to beat at ANYWHERE NEAR THE PRICE.
Marty N.
The Black Cube, and the Lounge seem to be among the final group of contenders.
May I ask what TT and cart you used it with?
Thanks!
The little Bellari VP 129 is pretty impressive for so little money, buy a mint used one for cheap and tube rolling is fun, easy, and you can readily hear differences because it only has 1 tube.
Thanks. The Bellari seems to be the go to tubed budget model. However, for this application he is going to avoid tubes, since it is for an office environment. The little VP 29 solid state one for around 60 bucks looks like a bargain.
glad I did. Going by user reports and comparisons, it was either Vista or Lounge, both $300. I hadn't heard either, but Vista has the flexibility I was looking for, and user reports has it beating $1K preamps.
This is a secondary phono for me, and I use it for loading evaluation as well as just listening. With plug in resistors for load and gain it reminds me of my AHT.
The standard configuration is 150pF and 47K. Resistors are put in parallel for load, and gain is from 40dB to 70dB. But you can order it however you want. I suggest 50pF for MMs and no native resistance. Then any value you plug in becomes the resistance. It comes with an assortment of Dale resistors, but upgrading them is worthwhile.
This thing is tiny - about 4 x 2.5". There is no ground lug. This bothered me at first, but hasn't been a problem. Either float the ground or connect it to a suitable ground. Either way I haven't had hum or buzz.
The sound is neutral with good detail. It doesn't have the finesse of the AHT, but acquits itself well.
neo
BIRD LIVES
Thanks very much. I have passed on all recommendations to my buddy. I will advise which way he goes.
Curious that the Vista has no ground lug. What would be the rationale behind that?
I think the concern is system grounding and possible unit failure. That's beside the fact that there doesn't seem to be room for it.
When people have a separate phono stage and get hum, they often try multiple schemes, including ground loops, to get rid of the noise. That's the best I can tell you, although it hasn't been a problem with a few different arm/carts.
BTW, it comes with a 12VAC wall wart - not as easy to replace as 12VDC, but seems to do well with the stock supply.
neo
BIRD LIVES
Interesting thanks. I know folks who have gone gray trying to tame turntable hum, even when properly grounded. It can be maddening.
I think many times it is the motor design.
I bought the VP-130. Rolled some tubes. I didn't understand what the fuss was about.
YMMV.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
I only have experience with G.Slee. very nice stage. In that price range I think the Vista Audio is a best buy. For the price of $299 you have to put it on the list. I think you get a 30 day return policy. Well worth a shot. You can also try the G.Slee for 2 weeks for only the price of shipping. I think in this price I would go with the Vista for the flexibility, can be figured for mm or mc.
Sturgus
Hi Sturgus.
Thank you very much for the input on the Slee. My bud is def. sticking with the stock MM cart. But I will send him info on the Vista. Looks very nice indeed. Their Spark integrated has become a budget star.
It is amazing for $300. Or for $1500.
If you can handle a soldering iron that is. The design is very simple and easy build. If you can handle a soldering iron and work a multi-meter you should be able to build one in no time.
Use 2 9v rechargeable batteries for dead quiet back grounds and you will have a phono amp that punches waaaay above its weight. Plus boozhound is pretty popular in DIY forums so there is a lot of content out there regarding good upgrades for parts etc...
I've built 2 and think they are an exceptional value.
FWIW,
Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
thanks nate. I am pretty sure my bud is good with a credit card, and not with a soldering iron. :)
nt
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
the Parks Audio Budgie with adjustable loading...
nt
Thanks! The reviews on the Lounge are across the board positive. Although some users report a somewhat soft sound. Pretty low risk for $300!
The Park Audio looks neat. My friend plans on leaving the system on 24/7 so tubes are a no go. But a heck of a nice looking piece.
I was surprised at the apparent non-wear I experienced with a Manley DAC years ago. Just for grins. I left it on 24/7 to see when the tubes failed or wore out. Like the Park Audio, it used a pair of inexpensive dual triodes and found that after a year using some NOS RCA tubes, it sounded pretty much the same.
I found a pic of the Budgie's board and see two op amps and four transistors so it appears to be a hybrid design.
Interesting experiment. I don't think he is concerned with wear and tear, but more so liability. With a nightly cleaning service and co workers..curious hands can only lead to no good.
And I think most "tubed" phono preamps at this price point probably use the tube as a buffer. That is my guess.
Understood and agree!
I just went through this research myself for my recently acquired Project DC (it has the upgraded platter and speed box).
The Graham Slee came up many times in my research, as did the Hagerman Labs and Schiit Mani. However, I chanced upon a review of the iFi IPhone, and I am glad I did. I located a fellow inmate who was selling his used Gen I version at a great price - the newly upgraded Gen II version sells for $499 and is Fremer's choice for a solid under $1k preamp.
Super impressed with this combo. The preamp sounds fantastic, and its many settings make it compatible with a wide range of MM and MC cartridges, and really let you tailor the precise loading - it made a big difference.
Only real complaint is that the RCA jacks are a bit close together, and larger RCA cables like my AZ Reference Silver interconnects are a tight fit, and I need to slide a piece of paper in between otherwise the metal sleeves touch and hum.
The other big difference was upgrading the standard Ortofon Red cartridge that is sold with this table - the Red is a good starter choice, but it smoothest over detail and has a collapsed sound stage. I went with the next model up, the 2M Blue, and it now sounds like I thought the table should sound. Way better bass, and the top end is much clearer (note - I use a Woo Tube headphone amp and Audeze LCD3's, a combo which would welcome the top end of the 2m Blue better than would a brighter sounding combination.
Thanks very much for the reply. My friend is going going to be using the tables in his office..he wants to pass the time pleasantly while doing paperwork. We both read a bunch of very positive reviews of the Mani, and of course Michael Fremer's major endorsement of the iFi Phono and Phono 2.
The Hagerman looks wonderful too. Small footprint and hard to believe price. It may be the ticket as I think he intends to stick with MM.
The upgrades you did seem to be what everyone recommends. However, I think my friend will go stock for a while. I do like companies like Pro-Ject that offer reasonable and affordable upgrades.
Again, thanks for the input.
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