|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
131.204.181.2
Wizards of Vinyl--
Please assist me in my quest to improve on the MC phono section of my current McIntosh C2300 pre, with its charming on-board MC and MM tube sections. Budget is about $6K ballpark for the new phono stage. New or top-quality used OK. Am running Dynavector cartridges (the only brand my dealer allows me to drive these days). Currently with an aging Dyna XX-II MK2.
I've heard good things about the Modwright PH-150, which has the very appealing controls on the front panel. Sutherland Duo is brand new but comes highly recommended to my by . . . Ron Sutherland himself, of all people. Trusted voices speak well of Herron.
I'd like to improve detail, sound staging, and punch while keeping some romance and rocknroll feel to the whole thing. Maybe this will require staying with tubes?
Hit me with your best advice!
Follow Ups:
Thanks again to everyone who gave advice on the phono stage question. After considerable research, I've decided to go with the ModWright PH-150 Reference tube phono stage, and I've had it in my system for a few months now. Working with Dan Wright has been a very positive experience: informative, low pressure, helpful. The ModWright PH-150 is a tube phono with lots of gain and MM + MC inputs. Only running one turntable and one arm currently, but my plans to run a mono deck can be handled easily by this unit. Build quality is outstanding, and sound is excellent, although I've not yet begun to roll tubes or experiment in any way. I did notice that after about 50 hours things settled in nicely.
My goal was to make a meaningful improvement over the McIntosh C2300 preamplifier tube phono stage, and that goal has been accomplished, although the price was considerable. The C2300 phono is very good; the ModWright surpasses it in resolution and detail, but retains the warmth of tubes that many of us prefer.
All that remains in view now is an upgrade to my Dynavector XX-2MkII cartridge. Audio-Technica? Kiseki? All options are open now, but I'm hoping to keep the price below 2K if possible. My friendly Dynavector dealers are happy to offer an XV-S for only 5.5K, but I've got a feeling that other good choices are out there, right?
And then I see there's the Audio Research PH8, newly discounted to about $5K. Any thoughts on that unit, especially for MC? Also: should I stretch to the AR Ref series? Discontinued models seem to be priced (sort of high for me) at about $8K right now.
All to play 30-50 year old records!
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions . . .
I see two ways to go, first if you have a MC cart, try a Step up Transformer to the MM section of your MC2300. They run from DIY $150 to about 1K.
If I were to buy a Phono Preamp after having had quite a few in my day. It would be the Manley steelhead. One of the best out there and with the most settings (Also built with quality transformers) Used about 4500 new about $7000
I owned the Mac C2300 and Steelhead v2 at the same time. The Steelhead was so much better that I didn't use the Mac phono at all.
A friend of mine has the Manley Steelhead, preferring a Dynavector p-u I think. It seems flexible and sounds good, clear. Yet I prefer the sound of my own Aesthetix Io, especially after it was upgraded to 'partial eclipse' status. Rounder, more tube-y, but also much more textured, layered, organic. Depends on taste and ears also, I guess. My friend says he sometimes misses The Groove, his former phono stage, which was very clear and good on vocal especially if I remember right. A dealer whose ears I trust here in Norway has mentioned the Zesto but I've not heard it. The Atma-sphere MP1 seems to be a good choice but it is expensive, MP3 might do the job, never heard them. Before buying, consider repair and service options, especially if you live far from the factory.
Forgot to mention the PH6 that I have borrowed for some weeks since the Aesthetix Io is down. At first I did not like it. Gradually I warmed up, or became more positive. The sound is quite different from the Io. More s-state. It is a mid-level component, but good for what it does. If I had never heard the Io I might have lived happily with it (again, thats MY ears). It might fit your system well, for a reasonable price second hand. The newer PH8 is supposed to be better (not heard it). But again, I have heard of repair problems, here in Europe. I should mention, I use the phono stages into the Einstein The Tube mk2 preamp. I have the Io with volume, so strictly it can go right into the amps, but it sounds better with a good preamp in between.
I've never used an SUT with my phono rig, but I'm intrigued. Thanks for the interesting suggestion. Obviously the cost is going to be less, right? What sort of SUT would be best? DIYI is out of the question given my (lack of) fabrication skill set. I'm guessing this SUT would have to be closely matched to the cartridge selected, right? And soundwise, how does going the SUT route compare with going to a $$$ phono along the lines of Pass, Modwright, ARC, or one of the other good suggestions that have been made?
And the right way to do the SUT is through the MM phono section of the preamp? Why not just use it through any input? Sorry for such basic questions, but that's where I'm at.
I've never used an SUT with my phono rig, but I'm intrigued. Thanks for the interesting suggestion. Obviously the cost is going to be less, right? What sort of SUT would be best? I'm guessing this SUT would have to be closely matched to the cartridge selected, right? And soundwise, how does this compare with going to a $$$ phono along the lines of Pass, Modwright, ARC, or one of the other good suggestions that have been made?
And the right way to do the SUT is through the MM phono section of the preamp? Why not just use it through any input? Sorry for such basic questions, but that's where I'm at.
Need to go through a Phono stage, but most MM sections are good its when MC is added that drops performance. They usually have a couple of settings with a toggle switch for loading.
This is one guy who manufactures Transformer based SUT's, but boy has his prices gone up. You can look for used ones here on the trader or on audiogon. They are made by a few of the old cartridge companies.
https://www.bobsdevices.com/Moving-Coil-Step-Up-Transformers/
Art Dudley just gave a rave review to the Luxman EQ-500. A bit above your stated price range, but a very flexible unit. Unless you are into 78s and early mono LPs, this unit does it all. Not heard by me, but I find Dudley to be a reliable reviewer.
Another one might be the Nagra VPS, which retails around the price point you mention. I have heard this one, but in a dealer system, where I was familiar with none of the other components. Hard do say.
Both of these are tube based. I second the idea of home audition, but I just don't personally know dealers who make a practice of that. Maybe I have never asked properly.
Dealers of higher quality gear do typically allow in home audition or at least a return policy if not happy with the purchase. Most online retailers offer at least 30 days to return if not happy. Some give 60.
If a dealer don't know you well, and even then still might, require a credit card to protect themselves, which is understandable. I would personally stay away from a dealer not willing to work with you.
You are at right price point. I would add the coincident phono stage to your list. Ballsy musical dynamic tube sound that is also quiet and clean. For a less ballsy sound ...more refined audiophile I whould considsr used hovland. You maybe able to pick up a doshi or loesch close to your price point. Finally...I hqve not heard a trumpet...but it is probably the lower priced components that might be able to compwte with above products.jt maybe the one to beat. Also nust to keep this honest ,I suggest getting a sheer audio hong kong phono stage for 500(new). Your new unit has to beat this handsomely. ....something whicb might not be that easy.
Also ss will be quieter than tubes...but if you prefer tube sound really pointless to consider.
You might consider the Pass XP-15. It is very flexible regarding gain and loading (although not from the front panel, it uses dip switches on the rear) and has the qualities you are looking for. It pairs very well with Dynavector carts - I have used the original XX-1, a high output XX-2, and now have the XX-2MKII and 20X2 (which is massively close to the XX-2MKII performance wise) and am very happy with the sound.Compared to the phono section in my old CAT SL-1 Reference the Pass gives up nothing vs. tubes in my opinion. But as Blackdog notes, that is a healthy budget and should allow some "in place" auditioning.
Edits: 05/02/16
You have a very healthy budget. The three that you mention will severely outperform the McIntosh. But all three are different in their presentation and controls.
When you are at this level you really need to audition them for yourself, preferably with your own system.
Dan Santoni
Thanks, Dan. I've had a feeling that the Mac phono was sort of a weak point in the system right now.
I have found that most built in stages are really for convenience and don't stand up to a stand alone unit unless you pay really big bucks. A friend has a DartZeel with phonopre built in and that sounds pretty good, but at a far larger cost than your budget for both the Mac pre and stand alone stage. The Manley Steehlead lists for a little more than your budget new and used to be the best of the best, includes tubes.
Tom Collins
Thank you for the advice. Home demo would be ideal. I guess part of the fun is tracking down the right equipment for demo, and that's not easy given my geography.
My system is quite similar to yours and I really like my Zesto Andros with upgraded tubes (not expensive NOS tubes either). I have the McIntosh MC452 amp and Harbeth M40.1 speakers. As added bonus, the Andros is within your budget.
Thank you for the interesting suggestion, Steve. Zesto is new to me, but I'll check them out. On a side note, how do you like the Mac MC452 amp with the Harbeth M40.1 speakers? I use a MC352 with Spendor SP1/2E right now, and I'm thinking about moving up to the big Harbeths after hearing them a few weeks ago. Interested especially in how the Mac matches up with the Harbeth as it is higher powered than some other combos I've seen with Harbeth.
Thanks!
Jim
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: