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Yesterday got 13 titles from Elusive Disc, and 9 of them were warped, bowed, off centered.
I was so upset I couldn't sleep last night. Now I have to ship them back at my expense.
This is all I wanted to say. If you're going to buy them (the sound quality is quite good) ask your vendor to check the LPs before they ship.
Other than that f@ck Music Matters.
Follow Ups:
How badly off centred are the record? Also how warped are they?
Here is a link to the specifications and guidelines that GZ Media (who do a lot of EU pressings) use. They quote IEC98 as the normative reference.
Anyway the short version is that the maximum eccentricity of the spiral groove is 0.2mm and the maximum warp height at the edge of a 12" disc is 1.5mm.
If you want to claim faulty product (from the manufacturer), you probably need to do some measurements and confirm that your discs exceed these specifications (which are derived from the standard). It is possible that vinyl pressed in the US will likely not use IEC98 as the normative reference in which case. However, this should give you a guide as to the "expected"/"acceptable" warp and eccentricity.
If your product is worse, what Music Matters may need to do is raise the matter with the pressing plant - given the pressure on pressing plants to deliver product, I suspect production tolerances have been widened so that less product is rejected to keep production rates sufficiently high to meet demand.
Interesting point to note about Heavy Vinyl in the link!
"Note: Heavy vinyl may deteriorate the acoustic properties of the recording, for example, by causing increased crackling. These degraded acoustic properties cannot be subject to claim."
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
First off, I have every 45, and many 33's released by MM, and like a lot of others, I've never had any issues with any of their lps, ever. And had very few issues with Elusive Disc. But when I did have a couple of issues regarding shipping, billing, I simply gave them both a call, and worked with their wonderful service folks. They were always eager to please. Why not just call them and nicely voice your issues with them? Why take to a public forum to loudly criticize them without seemingly even giving them a chance to make good?A little class goes a long way.
Edits: 08/01/15
Read my original post again, again and again. If you don't understand it again, call your doctor.
I think I can understand the f@ck Music Matters part pretty well.
You can't read, you can't write, you can't make a simple point.
This is a public forum where people share their experience, both negative and positive. Live with it.
You should try this advice on an Amazon customer review forum sometime and see what happens. Were your experiences typical? You have no idea.
I thought the original post was very informative, and the poster had every right to be extremely angry.
----------------------------
"Owning a turntable and wondering why you have inner groove distortion is like driving over nails and wondering why your tires are flat."
But what good does this anger do? Who is he angry at? Music Matters who reissued the discs? RTI who pressed the records? Elusive Disc who, since the records are all sealed, has no idea they are warped? FedEx for transporting the records in withering temperatures? Really, what's the point?
The poster seems to be angry at most everyone. Music Matters, RTI who pressed it off center and possibly warped, Elusive Disc for their postage return policy. Yes, these records are expensive and one has a right to expect a flat, well- centered disc. But let's face it, pressing vinyl is more an art than a science, even in 2015. Even the best pressings plants have their failures.
Truly, Erik, since this has been such a major source of angst for you that it caused you to lose sleep, I think I agree with your decision (not that you care) not to order any more audiophile discs again. Life will be much more peaceful.
Wow! It seems everybody knows who I'm angry at, and why. Jeezus!
The main point was to warn others about the issue, and let their vendors to check the records before they ship them. I think it's a very good idea. I was understandably upset when I got them.
It's only MM I'm angry at, since they're the owners, their name is on the stuff, QC is their responsibility, after all we don't live in China, and I already said this matter is not ED's fault.
As for the ED's return policy - nothing is written in stone. I mean NOTHING.
Lol. I'll remember this if you ever post a complaint about anything. Get out the smelling salts if you ever stumble into the Amazon forums.
Unbelievable.
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"Owning a turntable and wondering why you have inner groove distortion is like driving over nails and wondering why your tires are flat."
Just my opinion, but I own 20 or so music matters and have had zero issues. I also work weekends in a retail music shop that sells music matters titles. This year we have sold at least 150 music matters pressings and I have only had one returned for quality issues. That being said, I would be frustrated also if I were in you situation.
.
I suspect many sellers would try to see what they could get away with. I've grown tired of taking chances on new (to me) sellers, only to have them rip me off. I now stick to the few, good sellers I know.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
or off center hole. So far just one faulty one ( Dexter Gordon: Our Man in Paris ) having an audible scratch. I buy direct from Music Matters and they were gracious to send another one and told me don't bother sending the faulty record back. I've offered to send just a record and keep the jacket.
I am not picky but I have sent back Classic Records ( Bud Powell's Bud! ) and Testament Records (Pollini Chopin ) due to off center hole.
I think those two were bought from Elusive Discs. Rather than getting the same records I opted for the store credit.
So production anomaly can happen on any labels. Record production is not an exacting procedure. CDs are much more consistent. All these years, I have had just one off center hole CD.
And I've bought them from numerous sellers over the years.
To be honest, I wouldn't care if it was just a couple of defective ones out of 13, but 9 is too much. Steve Hoffman said once that off-centered pressings are inexcusable.
At least I'm lucky in digital - one off center CD out of 6000:)
This will be my first and last "audiophile" vinyl purchase. Like the other fella rightfully noted, life is too short.
...new records reminds why I stopped buying them.I might even buy the new Keith Richards album on CD.
THE HORROR !!!
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Edits: 08/01/15
I bought 7 Blue Notes 75 from Amazon.
3 are off center. 1 has bump on the surface. 1 has stain on the sleeve(I didn't even open it). I returned them all with paid shipping.
Is Music Matters the pressing plant? They should be out of business.
I will always support the small business man, but please, I do not pay when the product is defective. this is not a restocking fee.Only one return to Amazon and it was a duplication.
The customer is then charged what he is likely to stand. ...
As far as I know, Acoustic Sounds and Music Direct have the same policy. You must be fairly young if this caused you to lose sleep. Yes, it's annoying but it's not cancer or bankruptcy. Try to view it with some perspective. I've gotten much less fussy with age and experience. I rarely send a disc back if it sounds ok unless severely warped. Life is too short.
Edits: 07/31/15
It seems the perspective is faulty production and QC by greedy companies trying to produce
as much product to sell as quickly as possible. Return charges to distributors only increase costs
to a buying public already paying a premium.
MY perspective is that this is a real shoddy business practice - yesterday, 20, 30, 40 years ago, etc.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
40 years ago I was fairly young. For this kind of money I expect good results, age here doesn't matter.
So... I don't quite understand.
Why do you have to pay return shipping for defective product?
Is that an Elusive Disc policy or all mail order houses?
ED's policy. That's why I said its idiotic. But we'll see about that...
Had the same problem in the glorious day of Classic Records with Acoustic Sounds. And I live overseas. I ended up selling the record (obviously making the defect known to the buyer) at a discount rather than pay for shipping back.
In this day and age I find something puzzling: nobody's figured out a way to press a record without it being off-center?
No reason to lose any sleep over it though.
I would guess that it is a function of the age of the presses in use. CNC code makes it incredibly easy to find exact centers but retrofitting all the ancient presses in use would, I assume, be prohibitively expensive, is even possible.
By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox.
Galileo Galilei
You're probably right. But if we're asked to pay up to $50 or $60 for a record, we should get zero default.I personally haven't been too unlucky in that respect. All my Music Matters are fine. But still, these problems exist and shouldn't. Or if manufacturers are using old machines a thousand times recouped and with quality issues, we shouldn't be charged $50.
Edits: 07/31/15
Complex processes fail, it's a rule of nature. To expect 100% QC is unrealistic and would lead to prohibitively expensive products. That said if they were to charge $1 or $2 to hand select them I might pay that as a premium. I have sent back one record in the last 5 years for a defective pressing, very mildly warped records I keep.
By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox.
Galileo Galilei
makes me suspicious they may have warped in transit.
...some of them are warped, some of them are off centered, etc. Most of them are off centered. I think it's just a careless pressing.
If you can't be bothered to take an extra few minutes to make sure you punch the center of your stampers, why should I buy your warbly sounding records?
This is why I don't order records in the summer.
Dave
Same here, I try not to unless there is really good deals.
Last month I bought a huge box of records from Acoustic Sounds, the ones packed at the top and bottom of the box were warped. The other dozen or so in the middle were perfectly flat. This is when we had a week of scorching temperatures and the box sat in a sort facility over the weekend.
Ugh. I occasionally recommend Elusive Disc as a source for reissues. Not anymore.
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"Owning a turntable and wondering why you have inner groove distortion is like driving over nails and wondering why your tires are flat."
Edits: 07/31/15
...since the records were sealed, but their return policy is idiotic.
Wow, not good. I only had one bad one out of eleven.
Make sure you use media mail to return them. It's waaaay cheaper.
That's what I'm going to use. They're just damn too slow.
USPS lost a box of CDs, 143 in all, and they did nothing about it. A total loss for me. Using media mail is risky.
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