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Hi,
I am planning to take the plunge on this amazing TT!
Is there someone here who owns it and could give a fair review!
The cart would be the Lyra Etna.
What finish would you choose: Piano black or Rosewood?
Best regards,
Follow Ups:
Hi all,
End of the story,
My local dealer never got a call back from the VPI french importer about the DD and its availability.
I just ordered a Thales TTT-C with Simplicity arm (Swiss made) that I could audition in Paris and which struck me out.
I should receive it next week and will make a little review of it . (after close encounter)
Best regards and thanks again for all your inputs.
It seems that there is no Classic DD available in France and importer is not sure of his capacity at getting one on a decent agenda.
Announced price (before availability check) is also sky high (a third more than in the US)
I feel very disappointed.
Best,
Remember when comparing USA prices to European ones that our prices in Europe normally include VAT. As taxes on retail items vary in the US from state to state prices are normally quoted excluding tax.So tax will account for quite a large percentage of the price differnce that you see. There is also duty payable and the cost of shipping.
Edits: 04/15/15
Most US states charge sales tax in the range of 5%, with NY state being higher at 8% last time I looked. If the OP were to buy from VPI at their factory in New Jersey, it might or might not be subject to NJ state sales tax, as the buyer does not reside in the US, just as we tourists do not have to pay the horrendous VAT when shopping in Europe. I think each state will have slightly different rules on that, just as each state charges a different percentage for sales tax.
If the OP bought a VPI turntable in NY state without paying local taxes (or even with paying local taxes), he would still have to pay duty and VAT to get it into France.
You can only import items into an EU Member State without a tariff it is a gift and its value does not exceed the maximum set by the Member State for gifts to be charged at zero rate. This maximum is pretty low. For example, for my country (UK) the limit is £135 (about $200).
So even if bought in the US a $30K VPI 'table will end up costing at least $37,500 in most EU states plus the cost of shipping (and it weighs quite a lot)even if self imported. Duty is around 5% and the average VAT rate in the EU is about 20%.
no way around it.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
I'll put on my pedant's hat and say not quite "anything".
Aside from the gift sanction mentioned above, each Member State also has a number of goods or services that are zero rated. In the UK that includes children's clothing and printed books. However I sadly don't know of any state that has audio equipment in this category.
BTW I don't recommend that the OP boxes up the turntable and labels it "Books" ;-)
one may try ...
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
I used to know that, but I had forgotten that VAT has to be paid on the way in, as well as within.
No free lunch.What about used goods? Could the OP somehow contrive to show he bought the VPI from a private individual and thereby escape at least the full hit of the VAT?
Edits: 04/16/15
Interesting question but I can't advise anyone to do something illegal like falsely claim that a new turntable was a used purchase. If it was tried and then discovered then the 'table could be impounded.
Of course if the turntable had genuinely been bought second hand at areduced price then the duty and VAT formula would still apply to that value as you suggest. For the VPI 'table in question this would evertheless still be substantial. As it currently seems that the 'table in question is in short supply then it is actually feasible that the market for used samples could support a higher price than the manufacturer's recommended one.
I would go for the Rosewood - soon to be unavailable. Congrats on your decision to get the DD. I just got my first VPI - An Aries 3 with 3D arm.
VPI is very accommodating and will be very happy to have you come to their factory in Cliffwood, NJ to audition their incredible top of the line direct drive table. They are not far from Newark airport. I've been there on various occasions for assistance with my turntable. They have some excellent systems to listen to.
Thanks to all!
I do not have time right now to get to NYC (which is the city I love the most in the world!)
I will be there in october for the engagement of one of my wife's niece.
My wife was born in NYC (upper east side) and we come back here as much as we can.
I am not sure I can find one to hear as the importer said to my local dealer that it was on special order...
I would love to visit VPI's showroom and I read a lot on these people which seems to be very devoted to excellence.
My goal is to build a "ultimate" system piece after piece.
The first to stay is the Ongaku.
The second will be the DD
The third will be next generation of speakers from Living Voice...
Best regards,
I've owned one and while it was nice it was to euphoric sounding and the bass was tubby. It weared on me and had to sell it have 6 or so months.
I once had the experience of hearing both an Ongaku and a Kegon (even more expensive) side by side at a dealer's show room, both amps were alternately hooked up to Audio Note speakers, so the match should have been at least very good if not even ideal for both amplifiers. What struck me is that both amplifiers sounded excellent. However, they sounded very different from one another, which suggested to me that neither was terribly accurate or that only one of them could possibly be telling the whole truth, and it was not possible to discern which one. Euphonic, yes.
I've owned 2 Ongaku's and a Kegon and the Kegon was the more "accurate" but it was also the more musical, it drew you into the music. We sold Ongalu's for $28,000 NEW! Yes this was even though they retailed at $89,000. And we still made a profit. But Ongaku's sold on the name and Kondo-san was a true legend. Ongaku's were too euphoric for my taste but those that heard them loved them. Build and parts were all top notch.
It's amazing the mystique that develops around cost and physical appearance. However, I do agree that both of those amplifiers exuded curb appeal and sounded good as well. However, as I implied but perhaps did not say very well, I might have expected them to sound more alike than they did, since at those price points one expects accuracy, above all. Not to mention that they came from the same designer. Perhaps Kondo was more of a great chef than he was a stickler for absolute clinical accuracy.
Edits: 04/16/15 04/16/15
Hi,
I owned many many so called great amps in my "audiophile" life (tubes and SS) and the Ongaku is the most accurate I ever had.
As an amateur musician and a classical and Jazz live music fan, I know how sounds pianos and to differentiate a Bosendorfer from a Steinway or a Friederich guitar from a Fleta or a Hauser.
The music I listen to with the Ongaku is the closest to live performance I ever got.
And the most important for me is to be happy with it!
Best
Add the Soundlab Majestics to your must hear list :)..Also you may want to correspond with Mikel. He has been on the same quest for a long time, he may have some pointers that can be useful.dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Edits: 04/15/15
Jean Luc,
A friend of mine who has a very expensive system was in the market for turntables that cost quite a bit more the VPI DD. He set up an audition at VPI and ordered the table on the spot. According to him "the DD is the best bargain in high end tables today"
I know living in France it is hard to get to New Jersey to audition this table, but I believe you will be happy with it. They are really good people at VPI.
Find a dealer and go listen. If there are none near you, suggest putting about $3k of your budget into plane and few nights hotel and get it in NYC. (VPI is about an hour's drive from Manhattan. I don't know if they do factory tours for prospective customers, but it's worth a call.)
WW
"A man need merely light the filaments of his receiving set and the world's greatest artists will perform for him." Alfred N. Goldsmith, RCA, 1922
you can get to NYC and back for just around 1K before tourist season heats up. A couple of nights of hotel rental car, etc.....2 to 3K will cover it. Better than making a 30K mistake that you will regret. Also ask for discounts :). Worse thing can happen the answer is no.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
The 3D is a step up from any arm that I have owned (owned many). Be as careful as you can in setting it up...not that it is hard...just that you want it as good as you can get it. Remember any time you change one adjustment, you have to change all others for perfection. I recommend the Discovery cable...the Nordost is bright and not as lush ...certainly want Discovery with an Etna. I hope you have a Fozgometer.... Enjoy!!
I would definitely try to audition it, especially before taking the plunge on a $30k turntable. I'd prefer walnut, but I don't think they make it in walnut.
That said, have you auditioned any of the other new DD tables: Brinkmann Oasis and Bardo and the Gran Prix Monaco?
I'd want to hear as many tables in that price range as possible, before deciding on which one to buy.
....and I did like it when I heard it. It is about $20K with tonearm.
However, the VPI 3D tonearm is definitely special, and a step up from machined metal tonearms.
You would have to consider how much you want to spend, and the dealer and support network.
Just to mention that the OP is in France and the price differential of european turntables v. American ones is substantial.
Even when including tax the Oasis with arm and the tube PS is about £15K in the UK. The VPI Classic DD is (estimated)around £30K+.
I like them with some assistance like the Schroeder or the Durand or the WTA....Disclaimer...
I have not heard a bonafide Scroeder...made a clone, i have a WTA, and the Durand, is an intriguing design that i have not heard :)....
dee
;=D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Edits: 04/14/15
NT
I have heard Schroeder, Durand, and the WT Reference tonearms (not the latest from WT; I guess the A in WTA stand for Amadeus?). The first two are both extraordinary. IMO, without wishing to offend, the WT Reference is not in the same league, but of course it was also much less expensive when available. Oddly, I am not tempted by the mega mega expensive Telos, but I do rather lust for a Talea 2. I also wonder why, after basing their original marketing campaign on the virtues of their wooden arm wand, Durand have now turned to using materials that seem to be a synthetic composite for their arm wands.
so so. I am not a huge fan of the VPI arms, they are not bad but they rely solely on gravity to do the wok of four ideal bearings. The WTA refers to all well tempered arms, I think the WT implementations have some geometry issues, Bill Feuerbach. is not a big believer in the traditional alignments , so he does his own things, and i think it is so so...if you manage to get a WT in proper alignment it is much better than the stock alignment you get from the null points that comes with the well tempered protractor. Also a WTA must be properly damped, which is not the same for all cartridges, it is very easy to suck the life out of things. Some people refer to them as ill tempered arms :).The WTA uses viscous damping, the Schroeder uses magnetic damping the Durand uses a a mechanical stabilizer all three are assisted uni-pivots, which overcome the main limitation of a traditional uni pivot having to many axis of freedom.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Edits: 04/15/15
Your comments based on no practical experience with the 12" 3D tonearm on a DD table. I have offered every audiophile to bring down there best turntable and lets compare it to a DD/3D using an Atlas and see which one sounds more like the master tape.
I've done this over twenty times, they all lose because they do not sound like the master tape, they are colored and they are mechanically flawed. Do you want hi-fidelity or my-fidelity.
The best arms have no friction and do not resonate, bingo, we already make it!! Sorry for being cocky but when you are Babe Ruth you don't worry about stats!!
HW
What is an Atlas?
Lyra Atlas
http://www.lyraconnoisseur.com/Products/Products_Analog/Atlas/atlas.html
MW
---
Regardless of what table you buy or own as long as you're spinning vinyl you're doing the right thing!
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
if you scored the magic bullet ... good on ya :)...it would be a an interesting shootout between the VPI 3d the Durand Telos and the Schroeder reference on the same table, heck make it a VPI DD table :)...I only heard the regular 10" and 12" VPI arms and they did not make me jump off the scale. They were good but not incredible. I liked the SME V arms better, but they have issues as well.Harry, bring it on, You have lot to gain in proving that you can better the mystical arms of this business. And you do have a price advantage. In all honestly this is an open competition at this price point. Anybody willing to pluck down over 3.5K on arm is truly looking for the best. SO damn physics, and mystics, make it an open competition...have a panel, and get a few of the arms mount it on the DD with the same cartridges,a and let the best speak for itself :). What is there to loose?
OMG you still read this crap :).....
Edit: I would love to own your DD table...your BDs. are sorrta Meh for me i could care less for them, but i give you kudos for trying a DD.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Edits: 04/17/15 04/17/15 04/17/15
It's the only way to achieve accurate reproduction of piano.
Lew....that may be true for some, but not all listeners. The difference between a 10000 dollar table, and 20,000 dollar table is so slight....most people would never detect the speed variation. Sure...its nice to have the very best.
mine is mahogany...does that count? But if you are into wind instruments, get a brass one....
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
one must have a Koetsu Rosewood cartridge, of course.
Caramba!
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
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