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Just saw a review of this tonearm which the reviewer calls the best in the world. It better be at $35,000! Though he may believe what he writes, I can't help but feel a bit sceptical that I would be able to appreciate the nuances in sound that he seems to be able to discern. I guess I haven't spent enough time in the ethereal heights of audiophile heaven.
Follow Ups:
http://www.kosmic.us/vertere-sg-1-tonearm.html
at least with the standard wiring. Practically reasonable.
Obviously, price is $3,150 (sorry, can't change subject line)
Edits: 02/28/15
Nuts....
Over the past 15 years, I haves owned 3 tonearms:
Rockport 7000
Schroeder Reference
Durand Telos
While each of these tonearms are considered world class, and certainly able to compete with other tonearms, I would add that the most important variable to you analog system is not the tonearms itself, but rather the tonearms / cartridge setup. Each of these tonearms can sound great or mediocre depending upon the setup. I suspect the same would be true of the Vertere.
If you're suggesting that the Vertere Reference is no better than any other overpriced tonearm except just more expensive, I certainly wouldn't argue with you.
I'm simply amazed that anyone would be willing to spend that kind of money on a tonearm, especially a pivotal tonearm that produces tracking error and skating force. What's this world coming to, anyway? ;-)
....there are some interesting things about this arm on the technical level.Pivot bearings. Non traditional. Not cones and cups. Not uni-pivot. Not knife edges vertical and ball brgs horizontal, like a vintage SME.
The manufacturer comments are the really interesting parts of this review.
The mfr is Touraj Moghaddam; former designer for Roksan turntables and tonearms. While I have not owned any Roksan turntables, (but I have read many favorable reviews) I find his resume noteworthy and deserving of my attention.
The former Roksan designer has started his own company (Vertere) and is designing new turntables and tonearms. The tonearm in this review; the Vertere-Reference may be priced so rediculously high as to cause immediate dismissal of attention in the minds of 'sane' audiophiles. However, and looking past the incredibility of its price, I find the design of the pivot bearings to be worth a look.
What Touraj describes is this:
"...In the Vertere Reference Tonearm, the arm's vertical and horizontal pivoting motion is provided by non-rotating polymer-metal laminate films."
I can think of one other tonearm, recently reviewed on one of the magazines using a torsion bar for vertical pivot, while its horizontal rotation was traditional using ballbearings. But this design, if it is successful might have the potential to completely eliminate bearing chatter in a tonearm. That is worth looking at.
The mfr's comments go on for some time and, for me, are far more interesting to read than any of the reviewers observations. Touraj, at one point, notes that the vertical motion axis and the horizontal motion axis happen on two planes 23.0 mm apart from one another. He also notes that he has incorporated into his design a means of reducing tracking error by 1degree in comparison to any other pivoted arm of the same effective length.
He provides some tracking alignment charts to illustrate his claims.
On a technical level, this tonearm should be worth look for those with an inclination toward tonearm design.
-Steve
Edits: 02/25/15
> He also notes that he has incorporated into his design a means of reducing tracking error by 1degree in comparison to any
> other pivoted arm of the same effective length. He provides some tracking alignment charts to illustrate his claims.
I guess I missed this. Can you provide a URL to these notes and charts?
Thanks,
John Elison
quote/> He also notes that he has incorporated into his design a means of reducing tracking error by 1degree in comparison to any
> other pivoted arm of the same effective length. He provides some tracking alignment charts to illustrate his claims.
I guess I missed this. Can you provide a URL to these notes and charts?
Thanks,
John Elison /unquote
link below to the full review.
The interesting part is the mfr's comments which offer quite a lot of information describing his product. Just page over the reviewer's comments, which I find of little interest, to find the Touraj's comments.
-Steve
Thanks, Steve.
For some odd reason none of that stuff appears on my computer screen from the original posters link. I just checked it again and I get only three pictures and that's it. But, your link works just fine.
Okay, there is nothing special about this guy's tonearm geometry. He simply uses a different set of null-points than SME.
.
He moves the null-points closer together and trades lower middle groove distortion for higher inner and outer groove distortion. You can do the same thing with any tonearm by aligning to null-points of 68.33-mm and 118.45-mm. If you truly believe this alignment is something special you can download Conrad Hoffman's Custom Arc Template Generator for Phono Cartridge Alignment and set the inner groove radius to 62.827-mm and the outer groove radius 139.66-mm while using Löfgren A with your own spindle-to-pivot mounting distance. You'll get those same alignment null-points of 68.33-mm and 118.45-mm.
There is really nothing new under the sun regarding pivotal tonearm alignment, but since so few people actually understand tonearm geometry, some charlatan like this guy can convince people that his $35k tonearm can magically reduce tracking error by one-degree over any other similar length tonearm. Unfortunately, it's not true and the guy is simply a con man and ripoff artist. The world is full of suckers and some of them are rich and willing to spend $35k for a simple pivotal tonearm with some oddly offset bearings and shining LEDs.
Oh, well. Such is life!
Good luck,
John Elison
"The guy is just a con man and a rip off artist."
John- no need to hold back. Why not just say what you mean?
> John- no need to hold back. Why not just say what you mean?
Well, I was trying to be tactful. ;-)
I have consistently found that I am unable to fathom novel tonearm bearing designs based only on a verbal description of same. I need to see the damned thing or at least an engineering drawing, in order to understand whether it is unique and has merit. This could be due to my own need to visualize a concept in order to cathect it or to mediocre writing skills of most audio journalists, probably the former. Is there a cut-away diagram or a drawing on the website?
I did not see any cutaway drawing of this arm in the review. The writing I refer to in the review is not that of the reviewer but of the designer under his mfr comments. Which I propose is the interesting part of this article.
I can find no further explanation than what is offered by the mfr comments in that review.
-Steve
For those who understand and really appreciate the technical challenges of building a superb tonearm, I'm sure this is edifying. And I can certainly understand the excitement among the initiated. Like anything else, creating something new and improved, something no one has done in quite the same way, is an admirable undertaking. I just can't help feeling that I have something stuck in my throat, when I see the price, especially since there are some superb tonearms out there for a fraction of this one. I guess the real question for me, putting aside the technical advances here, is how much it would really contribute to enhance the sound.
I was struck by the fact that the three or so tonearms that this one blew away, when mounted on the Tech Das, are not exactly world beaters compared to the rest of the best of the current crop. For example, he mentioned the Graham 2.2; most Graham users say that the Phantom and Phantom 2 are way superior to it. Before spending $35K on the Vertere, I would want to know how it compares to the latest version of the Phantom, the various Durand tonearms, the Grandezza, the Schroeder LT, and a few others which all cost half or less than half as much. However, I am not one to condemn a product just because it is expensive. The Vertere may well be better than all the rest, for all I know.Axiom was another contender I forgot to mention above.
Edits: 02/25/15
The main difference in that area is, these guys OWN very expensive Systems and they don't have to ask anyone for a friendly price. They do what they want and when they write about, then they reflect their opinions like everyone else in the world. All of them have optimized listening rooms and own Components they know very well. They visit each other and discuss something in a friendly, audiophile group.
Are they better than other? Who knows, but I would say, they are more serious. Of course they don't touch a Audio Technica Cartridge, there are enough out there who do, they like the Position to be independent and to be able to afford everything.
For me, they are the better audiophiles in this corrupt business.
" to trust is good - not to trust is better! "
It's amazing how gullible audiophiles can become. Do you remember Michael Fremer's cartridge comparison test where he posted high-resolution digital recordings of nine inexpensive cartridges played on a VPI Traveler along with one recording from his ultra expensive $200,000 Continuum Calibrun with Ortofon Anna cartridge? More than 88% of all listeners preferred the sound of one of the cheap cartridges played on the Traveler to Fremer's very expensive personal turntable.
If you really want to have some fun, buy a brand new cheap turntable and install the cartridge you now use and play it through your expensive phono stage to find out what you would actually be missing without your ultra expensive turntable and tonearm. I'm sure you'll hear the difference, but the interesting and possibly shocking thing will be how you evaluate the importance of the difference you hear.
John, I think that you need to take account of the fact that the VPI turntable used was runnung fast and people will often prefer that little extra "zip" and vote accordingly. A bit like comparing amps when one is played slightly louder than the other.Otherwise I agree totally with you. I fitted an Ortofon 2M Red to my friend's stepson's ancient Rega tuntable last year. I then checked it out through my rig. No, it wan't as good as my Orbe/SME V/Lyra Skala but it had a big percentage of the performance and I was duly very impressed. Things have come along way with cheapish cartridges.
Edits: 02/25/15
And that evaluation makes all the difference to whether you are 'in the club' or not.
When auditioning, I have established the habit of asking myself, when presented with a comparison and contrast test, whether I 'get more music' from the change or not. If yes, I explore more, if not, I note (with some detail) that things sound different. It's great if better sound accompanies better musical engagement but these pilgrims cross paths more rarely than we'd like to think.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
As long as he's happy...
For some reason, it won't go through. Here's the mono and stereo website. Just scroll down to tonearm review. Maybe someone else can post link.
link below
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