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Given my present system (Clearaudio Concept/Clearaudio Aurum Beta S/ProJect Phono Box S/PrimaLuna/Maggie 1.7) and my listening tastes, and a $3000 budget for improvements, a dealer that I trust (Brian at The Analog Room, San Jose, CA), suggests the following:
1. Rega P6
2. Rega Fono
3. Keep the Clearaudio cartridge.
What do you think? An improvement for about $2000?
TIA
Jenn
Follow Ups:
Your dealers suggestion is more of a lateral move. It will sound different, not necessarily better.
I would prefer a very good phono stage with your level of equipment.
Yep, phono stage is the best upgrade vector you've got there. I wouldn't move from even an entry-level Clearaudio to any Rega. There are lots of great phono stage options in the 2-3K range, especially used, that can scale for miles with subsequent upgrades. I've had a Rogue Ares w/ Bob's Devices 1131 SUT, which is excellent (definitely a good choice), and I now use a Sonic Frontiers Phono 1SE+ that is wonderful. The Chinook (which I've not heard) also uses a JFET MC step-up with a tube MM stage like the Phono 1 (and it works out very well there). For the next steps after phono, I'd look at getting a quality MC cart and an Ovation with a Magnify arm -- I think that kind of setup can be "endgame" quality for the vast majority of vinylphiles.
Yes, phone stage is HUGE in regards to your sound. I just bought a Basis 1400 with Basis/Rega 300 modified arm an Glider. I have a new Heed Quasar and love it. I am about to upgrade to the Ayre P5xe so that I can run balanced into my Ayre integrated. If interested I'm selling the Heed (am I allowed to say that in a post? I'm brand new here, so delete if I can't).
Personally I'd look at the phono first and go from there.
Thanks again, all, for these and any further thoughts. I DO rather trust this guy. He has recommended AGAINST buying things from him in the past, and he has things that are MUCH more expensive that he could be trying to sell me. I'll take a careful listen on Saturday to be sure. I'm taking him not just my cartridge, but my entire TT for comparisons. I'm going a little crazy with options, but I don't often spend $3000 on my stereo, as my money usually goes toward instruments and scores!
Thanks again.
http://www.elusivedisc.com/Fosgate-Signature-V2-MM_MC-Tube-Phono-Stage/productinfo/FOSPSSIG2/
That is a great deal, the Friday deal is spectacular!
$300 less than what I had to haggle for last year.
For that price, you WILL have the best phono stage value...period.
Its the latest version which I have. With all the money saved, you could squeeze in a power cord/interconnects.
Now, you will hear what your table/cart can do.
Jenn,
If you haven't pulled the trigger on the Fosgate yet check this link and save even more!! Today only. (11/28/14)
Freak out...Far out...In out....
Actually, even $55 cheaper than that at Elusive.
Edits: 11/28/14
nt.
But I would go with the tubes.
Yes, a spectacular buy---TODAY!
This Phono preamp is really nice for $599. Mine has around 75-85 hours of break in (update coming soon) but this sounds really nice in my system.
The MP-P1 sound great on all types of music and is a really great buy for the price. Unit is really quiet too!
The company is based in Canada and shipping is fast. I got mine in a week.
Hope this helps!
I've talked with Brian a couple of times. He's a good guy and has a wealth of knowledge, but also has some strong personal biases, as we all do. I agree with the other responses here about upgrading the phone stage first. Next thing you should consider is a higher powered amp to power the Maggies IMHO. I don't have specific recommendations, because these things are so subjective. Research and audition!
I have great respect for John E and Opus but I cannot agree on the Yaquin MS 23B phono preamp. I have one on loan from a very kind member and I've tried replacement tubes from Upscale Audio.The other phono preamp I tried on MM/MI cartridges was an Audio Alchemy VAC-In-The Box phono preamp. It's a MM/MC phono preamp that I believed retailed for $250 when new.
I tried the Yaquin and Audio Alchemy preamps with an NOS ADC XLM II Improved and a Shure Ultra 500 with a SAS stylus. The MS-23B is on loan and I am considering whether to buy it from the owner. I ordered a set of replacement Tung Sol 12AX7 tubes from Upscale Audio. The 12AX7s are supposedly excellent tubes and I bought the highest grade of those tubes available from Upscale Audio.
The MS-23B sounded a bit closed in and restricted in when I first tried it out. I'm used to an Acoustech PH-1P phono preamp with LOMC cartridges. It is an OPAmp based all SS preamp designed by Ron Sutherland who has gone on to design a line of successful phono preamps under his own name. The PH-1P was an early design of his marketed by Chad Kassem. It got good reviews and was highly rated by Stereophile (if you care about that stuff).
I had trouble with the PH-1P when I tried to use it as a MM preamp. Odd, it works fine as a LOMC phono preamp but it makes an odd noise when it is used with any of the MM/MI designs I've tried it with.
All of that aside, I prefer a very neutral and transparent sounding component with lots or reach down low and up high. The PH-1P does fine in all of that area and wanted something to try out with the MM/MI cartridges that I've had collecting dust on my shelf.
The first I tried was the MS-23B. It was decent and not at all objectionable but it lacked transparency and sounded closed in compared to what I was used to. The unit I had on loan also had a low level hum that was not too objectionable but it was there. The replacement tubes from Upscale Audio help the low level hum a bit, making the low level even lower. The replacement tubes also made the MS-23B sound more open and closer to my liking compared to the stock tubes.
The replacement tubes got the little MS-23B closer but it still sounded a bit closed in and I kept waiting for the phono preamp to get out of the way and let the two cartridges sing. The VAC-In-The-Box was another story. It was open, transparent and sounded much better than an inexpensive little phono preamp should. In short the Audio Alchemy wiped the floor with the Yaquin in my system.
The setup was as follows:
Turntable: Denon DP-62L with ceramic/jeweled bearing
Tonearm: OEM Rega RB-300 with incognito wiring, Mitchell Technoweight and Riggle VTAF
Linestage: Audible Illusions L1 (modified)
Power Amp: Adcom GFA-555II (modified)
Speakers: Magnepan MGMC1
Subwoofer: Polk 350W
ICs: Kimber HeroIf I were going to spend $3000 on an upgrade I would consider something like the Manley Labs Chinook, EAR 834P or Simaudio Moon 310LP (just to mention a few). All of the above will elevate your analog system's performance and you can spend the rest of your cash on the best component to ensure you get great performance...better LPs.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Edits: 11/26/14
It's ironic you should mention the Audio Alchemy VAC-In-The Box. A friend bought one for use with his Dynavector moving coil cartridge back in the day when Stereophile had labeled it a best buy. It sounded so bad to him that he sent it to me for evaluation. I also thought it was the worst sounding phono stage I had ever heard. In fact, it sounded so bad to me that I thought it was defective. I called Audio Alchemy and they sent a replacement immediately. The replacement sounded exactly the same. My friend returned it for a refund. We never tried it with a MM cartridge because neither of us owned MM cartridges.
Anyway, that's my experience with the Audio Alchemy VAC-In-The Box.
With respect to the Yaqin phono stage, I have never used it with a MM cartridge, either. I have only used it in conjunction with a Bob's Devices 1131 step-up transformer, and it sounds absolutely spectacular in my system. That combination comes pretty close to sounding as good as my $4200 Pass Labs XOno phono stage. However, I've never tried the Yaqin with a MM cartridge.
Best regards,
John Elison
John,
Once again system synergy raises its head and renders gear recommendations somewhat pointless.
The info that I dug up on the VAC-In-The-Box had to do with reports that it was too noisy to perform its job as a LOMC phono preamp. I checked it out at its maximum gain setting and it did have too much hiss to use it with LOMCs with an output of around 0.25mv/ch...which covers a lot of LOMCs. Maybe that was the issue when coupled to your friends LOMCs.
I'm sure it didn't help matters. I suppose it may be OK with higher output LOMCs like the Lyra's with an output of around 0.5mv/ch. I don't doubt it would have a different sound characteristic coupled to a stepup also.
I tried it with both a MM (Shure Ultra 500) and a MI (ADC XLM II Improved) which should cover some differences loading wise and, in spite of whatever differences each cartridge may present, both were limited sonically in about the same way. I wanted to really like it but something is holding the preamp back internally.
Please let me know whether your MS-23B has a low level hum in both channels. Perhaps this unit has a problem that causes the hum and effects its sonic performance. It would be unfair to trash this phono preamp if it were just an issue with this particular unit.
Anyway....I'd like to take this opportunity to wish you and your family a Happy Thanksgiving. In fact this wish is extended to my friend Henry and all inmates here.
Take care and try not to eat too much,
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Yes, the VAC-in-the-box was very noisy on both the 50-dB and 60-dB gain settings.
The Yaqin is luscious and musical. Mine has a faint buzz in one of the channels. It's not noticeable when music is playing but can be heard faintly in-between cuts when the volume is turned up real loud.
Happy Thanksgiving,
John Elison
I have used the Yaquin MS22 with both moving coils (with a head amp) and moving magnets and found it to be absurdly good for the price.
Very slightly "thick" with stock tubes, but still an amazing price/performance.
If you are having problems with yours I would look to something other than the Yaquin.
But that's just me, with my system.
But I got some dammed stomach virus over the holiday weekend.
Many thanks for your input on the preamp,
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Once upon a time I lived very happily with Maggie 1.6 speakers powered by tubes (mac 275 amp, Anthem Pre 1L). My vinyl front end was a Scout/Clearaudio Maestro Wood running through an EAR 834. That system lasted me a long time, and sounded great. So I wouldn't take your dealer's advice. Instead, I'd upgrade both the phono cartridge and the phono section. If you like the basic Clearaudio MM sound, the Maestro Wood V2 would be an obvious destination cartridge and at $1200 new it is in your budget. I'd then look to replace your project phono box with a used EAR 834, probably about $1k. Allowing a couple hundred bucks extra to tube roll the 12AX7s in the EAR, you would be well under budget and sounding just fine.
get a better phono preamp. The Yaqin is good, but not that much better than what you have. Drop $300 more, $500 altogether, and spring for a Hagerman Cornet 3 tube phono preamp. It's in a whole other league, compared to the Yaqin, which is the best sub $200 preamp I've heard. That $500 investment in your current system will better the Rega system the dealer is pushing . . . and save you $2k in the process.
Opus 33 1/3
I think the dealer just wants to sell you a bunch of stuff and make some money. If you really plan to keep the cartridge, I would recommend keeping your turntable, too. Then you can save yourself $2800 by buying a Yaqin MS-23B tube phono stage for $200. Listen to that for a while and you might be very pleased.
I would get a nice tube phono preamp. Check out the Croft Acoustics RIAA phono preamp at $995.00. Quicksilver has a nice one (I have an older one)at $1595. IMHO I think the phono preamp is one of the most important components in the audio chain.
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