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Looking at this site i draw the following conclusions:
1. I have most of these albums in Dutch or German 70s license pressings on vinyl, in analogue form. Bought them from the thrift/flea circuit for 1 or 2 euro a piece.
2. I could buy most of these albums on perfect used CD's for 2 to 5 euro a piece.
3. Just got a Yamaha Cd-N500 CD player/streamer. I downloaded two files of the same recording, a 16/44 WAV and a 24/96 FLAC. I couldn't hear a difference playing back these files with the Yamaha.
4. Most of these albums are old analogue recordings, the master tapes being 35 to 55 years old now. Are these digital remasters done recently in 24/96 and higher format or are these old 16/44 remasters done in the 1980s?
My 0,02 cents? Good and cheap used vinyl is few and far between anno 2014. New reissue pressings are expensive and are digital remasters. Buy a used high end CDP and used Cd's. Just got 18 Chet Baker Cd's for a mere 50 euro!
"The torture never stops"Greetings Freek.
Follow Ups:
I have no problem with hi-rez re-releases of "older" material as long as the mastering is good. Unfortunately it often isn't. If the choice is between a 20 or 30 year old CD (or LP) or a compressed, un-dynamic / brick-walled modern CD, SACD, BD-A, or hi-rez download... I'll take the old CD or LP every time. The problem seems to be especially prevalent with downloads, perhaps because many of them come directly from the content owner -- who still seem to think that everyone wants LOUD -- and not from previous audiophile masterings.
For modern re-releases I'll often buy only after feedback has been provided by others.
Most of my 24/192 or 24/96 hi-rez digital stuff is from my own LPs. I have purchased about 16 downloads, either directly or as a coupon that came with a LP. Some of these are very good and some are no better than CD quality.
The reasons range from the quality of the master tape (not needing anything more than low-rez) to perhaps the processing of the company that produces this stuff. I bought some titles from the same place that you included a link to in your original post and the results there were mixed.
What I bought from there were DSD downloads and three of the four that I bought were good. One was clean and decent but not better than anything else I have heard.
I think its a throw back to what I mentioned above and the fact that we look for top quality pressings to begin with and care about our analog playback rigs. A hi-rez download is not likely to be an eye opener for many of us.
I'd wager its about the same percentage of eye openers as we find in audiophile repressings from labels like MoFi. Unless the original pressings were limited or down right screwed up to begin with the gains to be realized from an audiophile pressing can be somewhat less than overwhelming.
The same goes for hi-rez downloads. Your not going to get more fidelity than exists on the master tape and depending on that you can get a mixed bag. Since we already have decades worth of audiophile pressings made from the original master tapes when they were newer I think its fairly unlikely we are going to get any hi-rez downloads that are going to shock anyone who has cared about fidelity for the past 30+ years.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Actually, in terms of hires, there are some good ones out there. The recent Led Zeppelin I-V, The Doors, Grateful Dead and Dr. John sets. If one knows how to get the most out of hires, (and that's no easier than getting the best out of vinyl, IMO), the results can be quite revelatory. Even if you already have the old vinyl.
In general though, I agree. If you have the record you've already got the best of that title and there's no need to get it again.
I bought the Super Deluxe boxed releases that came with the coffee table book (pretty cool stuff), the vinyl, 2 CDs and a card with a download code for each release.
I compared the 24/96 FLACs from the new LZ downloaded stuff to the Classic Records and (in the case of LZ II) the MoFi pressing waveforms. Its is obvious that the new LZ hi-rez download releases are compressed when compared to the Classic or MoFi pressings. My ears get tired and feel assaulted when I listen to the new stuff for too long. Its a hint that something is too compressed (at least to my ears). Yeah, I know that LZ is pretty cranked up to begin with, but it really doesn't need additional compression.
If you search around the vinyl asylum you will find a prior post from me that includes a screen shot from Sony SoundForge that shows two waveforms from a track (IIRC it was from LZ II) that immediately shows the added compression in the new hi-rez download.
Its a shame because other than the compression the release is very clean and could have been a world class reissue. I guess that Jimmy Page is pretty deaf after all those years of standing in front Marshall stacks.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
No doubt, the new masters have more compression than older versions. My Barry Diament cd of LZI rates an 11 and the new version comes in at a 9. Nothing I would call abusive though, and all the waveforms look really good. Certainly no "flat top" waveforms that have become commonplace in the last 15 years.
Still, dynamic range is only one aspect. There are so many other positives about these masters that I can't dismiss them out of hand because of that. I don't find them tiresome at all. In fact if I want to hear I thru III these days, I will go for the new hires versions rather than my original vinyl. They have pretty much brought these albums back from the dead for me.
Thanks for pointing out your earlier waveform posts. I missed those before.
IME sealed or gently used original releases from the country of origin are the most likely to be the best sounding. As usual the system used for the evaluations can effect one's preferences. At one time I swore by Japanese LPs but as my system evolved my opinion of them changed - helped along by another inmate here who posted a different opinion.
Two reasons I rarely buy reissues. First there's too much good new music available at reasonable prices and secondly most vinyl reissues don't sound as good as the original. Some of them sound far worse - ie. the good clean new reissue isn't even worth playing so might as well not have a copy at all.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
I'm going to the record store later this morning. I could probably find most of those records in clean condition and not pay more than $5 to $7 dollars for any of them. Might even get the Dean Martin album free of charge.
But I do see your point, Munkie. It does seem to be another way to sell us our own collections again. And it is smart money to buy up cheap used CDs of some material not readily available on LP.
My own take on Hi-Rez is that the music industry will never make more than a fraction of their catalogs available in that format. They don't want people sharing CD (or LP) quality files. I'm not going to buy into the infrastructure.
___
The little old ladies wait in wild anticipation for the meetings of the Double-A-C-ASSN...
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
That as the vinyl revival continues, the smart money is on sweeping up good CDs...
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
I take your point. My gut reaction would be to stock up on CDs but I'm not doing that. This is contrary to my life long strategy of buying in the winter what I need in the summer (metaphorically speaking).1. Most of the CDs I am seeing (in my local area)are not to my liking ... millennial music.
2. I am not seeing the price drops that others are seeing. Most CDs I would like to own are selling for the same price they always have.
3. I've got a really good collection of spectacular sounding CDs but they are in NO WAY representative of the bulk of what's out there ... loudness wars. My preference is for full dynamic range.
4. Some CDs I own are recorded so poorly (brick walled) that they are only good for hard copy back up for my Ipod (192kbps MP3).
5. IMHO ... Streaming is a better mouse trap than CDs ... rent vice buy an album ... just like movies. Only buy the must haves that would be worth owning a high res copy.
6. I've never felt an emotional tie to CDs like I do towards vinyl.
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
--Zen Proverb
Edits: 11/22/14
My CD harvesting is primarily of classical, jazz and other, like Condorsat. Essentially non-pop.
There were (are) lots of discs of outstanding performances that I have missed. I also like to buy from specialists like the Piano Music chaps at APR for instance. For new music, I buy vinyl almost exclusively.
CDs are certainly not vinyl, but they can sound really good, in a good (read mature, probably R2R) digital playback system. I'm not into PC audio or streaming at all, yet. When TIDAL reaches NZ, I may change my mind (but not my DAC).
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
CDs have proved to be a good investment for me. A ready-made backup for what I rip to hard drives. I only do classical, jazz and other full dynamic range, non-compressed music.
Yes ... that's the key there.
It depends on what you listen too. Jazz and Classical CDs tend to be good examples of digital done right.
Unfortunately ... they are not being carried at my local record stores and the added cost of S&H is a deterrent to me buying much.
Mostly I listen to Jazz & Classical on Spotify with some occasional purchases of recordings that really catch my ear and want to hear on the mains rig in high res.
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
--Zen Proverb
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