|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
69.215.10.150
LP is Jethro Tull Benefit, US release. Seller's response follows:"Hi, Thanks for the info. Yes I am aware that this pressing is from 1969-1971 when the label dropped the Orange top.
I do still consider it an "Original" pressing although it is not a very First pressing, it is also not a "New" re-issue from modern times either. It's still desirable to collectors and is in outstanding condition.
Thanks again for the info."Along those lines then, I consider Caddyshack II a funnier movie than the original;-)
Dave
Edits: 07/30/12 07/30/12Follow Ups:
I purchased it at a used record store a few years ago for about $5. I always thought it was a 1st pressing, not a RCA record club issue. Oh well...still sounds pretty nice and it's in excellent condition
BTW....mine is still in the shrink, with remnants of an old removed quarter size price tag still present. Not sure if the tag was attached when new or when sold used over the years. Pretty sure the record clubs didn't put price stickers on their LPs.
I'm kinda glad I got called out on it. Now I know. I've since seen a white label promo of the album and there's no W7 on it, which lends support to the record club theory and their using of leftover labels. I've got several record club LPs clearly labeled as such but I wonder how many more I may have in disguise.Dave
Edits: 08/03/12
It is a nice-looking label.
googling 'tull benefit reprise goldmine' came up with the link that shows both labels as 1970
Interesting. My edition has it as the first entry under the Reprise section. I've been wrong before. I'll send the ebay seller an apology if need be as I have lots of practice at that:-) Thank you.Dave
Edits: 07/31/12 07/31/12
Is that your record,or a pic from the internet? And if it is your record,could you list the matrix numbers?
Pic is from internet but I do have a copy.
Matrix #s are stamped.
Side 1: 31051 (little bow-tie looking symbol)1S and an indistinguishable mark at 12 o'clock from the other #s, a 1 or an I maybe?
Side 2: 31052 (same bow-tie symbol)1S and what looks to be a 1 or an I at 12 o'clock form the other #s. Looks more like a 1 to me. Also on mine the lettering in the lighter-orange portion is finer than in the pic and "stereo" is a bit higher up and horizontal, rather than slightly curved at the bottom of label.
Edits: 07/31/12 07/31/12 07/31/12 07/31/12 07/31/12
Exactly...those are RCA Matrixes...what you got is an RCA record club issue with 1-S matrixes...31051 is the tape number,the mark at the other side of the deadwax is either an "I" for Indianapolis pressing plant or an "R" for Rockaway pressjng plant or an "H: for Hollywood pressing plant.
The label is also printed with RCA fonts. You aren't the first person that has fallen victim to the RCA Record Club!
The absolute highest Reprise catalog number that I have ever seen with "Genuine" Reprise matrixes and W7/Reprise two tone labels is Joni Mitchell "Ladies Of The Canyon" RS 6376..fully 24 releases prior to Benefit.
I spent 6 months back in the 80's looking for one of those Benefits...until I figured out the deal with RCA.
I had my own comeuppance with a 2 eye 360 sound Columbia copy of Santana Abraxas...I showed it to 3 different people with intense pride...until it was pointed out that it was Canadian.....
Edits: 07/31/12
But what about the font on the label pic I posted? That seems to be in-line with the Reprise font of the era. Did the record club get some right and were off on others?
No,
The RCA record club wasn't the only transgressor,just the main one.
Whose picture is that? (email the owner and ask him about his matrixes)
1.Columbia Record Club..plus 3-4 other record clubs+more licensors of the era
2 Rack Jobbers...an old tradition in the album business.(They don't exist any more).
Those are the main culprits in the "fake early label" arena.
I think the pic is from a closed popsike auction, but there might be a couple on ebay or GEMM I can ask about. Thanks again.
Dave
I'm pretty sure I have that Santana...
Edits: 07/31/12
Good to know. Thanks. This hobby is an ongoing learning experience. I'll be sure to do my homework before spouting off again and send the ebay seller an apology.
Dave
i think they changed the label around the 6400 catalog number series and the release of benefit....doesn't surprise me that some of the first 6400 series catalog numbers could have had the two tone w7 label
i'll post the matrix for my two tone when I'm next at the house it's at.
I would say you are guilty of assuming. Common terms used are 1st pressing and original pressing, even 1st pressing can be subjective: for example Pink Floyds UK Wall pressing mixed stampers from 2U to 5U on different sides, I have seen an all 2U stamper copy and only one 1U stamper on one side but 5U on side B. Which ones are 1st pressing? originals? it can be very subjective.
This kind of misunderstanding is why I always include a close-up picture of the label when selling a record, which eliminates all of these questions. When I am buying, I am always hesitant to pull the trigger if there isn't a picture of the label. An awful lot of people selling records are not going to be conversant with label variations and the importance that they have to collectors. As plenty of others have said, "original pressing" will mean different things to different people. If it's important to you, never assume anything-ask first.
Edits: 07/31/12
For example, CBS switched from 6-eye to 2-eye labels at some point in 1964 and kept them until 1970. So an LP issued in late 63 or early 64 might be rare as a 6-eye "original" and much more common as a 2-eye. But an LP issued later in 64 would exist only as a 2-eye. What musical difference does any of that make?
.
Look up the definition of original and you will see that none of the definitions apply to this situation. There is no standard meaning of original that pertains to LPs.
You assumed it was first pressing but the seller never stated that it was.
Original means it is not a copy. Like if you bought an original cassette tape it would mean a factory produced tape, not a copy made of that original. In this case original has no clear meaning. I suppose the closest you could come with an LP would be the original master acetate but that really doesn't apply here either.
.
.
which is that an original pressing is just that, not a re-issue or later pressing but the original or first commercial release of a record,
usually determined by catalog number, label configuration, matrix, etc.
It represents the difference between the price of an original Blue Note 1568 and a later issue.
I don't know what LP world you are involved in, but by your definition it seems to have no connection to the one I've been involved in for 35 years.
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
.
You're not dealing with the LP world, you are dealing with the eBay world.
If the seller thinks that any record is original then it is. His definition is as good as anybody's. In the eBay world you are quite foolish to assume anything.
If you want a first pressing then you are foolish to assume that somebody else means that when they say original. That was just proven by this post.
From the responses it looks like many agree with me.
.
N/T
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
No one in the eBay world should be trusted. There's more integrity in the vinyl world.
"Apparently, people now believe that mental telepathy is the foundation of communication and magic is the source of daily events. Consequently, we no longer have to participate in our own lives."
.
Many people are selling records who have no idea how to grade them or even know what grading means. Doesn't make them a crook, just have no knowledge of the process.
In any case, it is a crap shoot there.
.
Semantic manipulation of common understanding.
"Apparently, people now believe that mental telepathy is the foundation of communication and magic is the source of daily events. Consequently, we no longer have to participate in our own lives."
So when someone says "original pressing" to you, you take it as meaning it's not a bootleg or counterfeit? That's a stretch.
.
I don't take it to mean anything. If it is important to me I would ask the seller what they meant. In the world of eBay assuming anything is foolish.
.
Goofy answer but the real question is, how does it sound? Relax and have a drink.
Out of curiosity ,what makes you think his copy is not a first pressing?1.There are no 2 Tone copies of this record,it was released very early in the "Tan" Reprise era.
2. Most every 2 Tone W7/Reprise album ever released has the W7 logo as a permanent part of the artwork on the cover. There is no such W7 logo as part of the artwork on Benefit.
3.There was a Japanese issue of benefit that had W7/2 Tone labels,but not the US.
4.There was a Canadian pressing with 3 color labels.
5.If you have a copy/or saw a copy that has 2 Tone labels chances are almost 100% that it has RCA matrixes ,because the RCA Music service had a bad habit of using old label styles and confusing record collectors in the process.
Edits: 07/31/12 07/31/12
i think the label change happened the same year/time frame benefit was released. it may be a second pressing done from the same mother in the same year. for a number of reasons i guess i don't automatically assume original means a first pressing.
I agree with you on that. I never take 'Original' to mean a first pressing. Some of the Japanese Sellers on Ebay also say 'Original [Japan LP]' but that has other connotations as in an 'LP issue originating in Japan' and not the very first issue in that country of the title concerned.
If a seller wants to convey that a particular pressing is the first one in that country, be it U.S.A., United Kingdom, Germany etc., then he should say exactly that. 'Original' is vague.
"'Original' is vague."
Exactly; there is no authoritative definition for "original". It means whatever you want it to mean.
Wasn't there an original Colt .45, or Atari 2600, Gallagher, Model T, frozen dinner, or the Colonel's fried chicken recipe available to the consumer market? Semantics, schemantics.
Edits: 08/03/12 08/03/12
Samuel Colt made 45 caliber weapons in many models; which one is the original?
Is a Ford Model T with a starter motor original or not?
Have you found an original frozen dinner on ePay?
When it comes to chicken and Atari you are on your own!
It's gotta be known by someone, somehow, somewhere. It's digging deep into the research. A lot of products can be pinpointed in terms of their original availability.
N/T
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: