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How many have been happy with their vinyl playback system say for three years or more? You read lots of post by people that get a new TT. preamp, cart. and rave about how great it sounds and in a few months get something new that they rave about (myself included, Im probably the worst offender) So what is it are we looking for musicaly? I have owned many TT's that had realy good reps. but was left unsatisfied. I have a TD-124 that is the best so far, but not audio nirvana. Or is it not audio related, maybe boredom. What are your thoughts on this subject?
Follow Ups:
don't get me wrong, my vinyl rig sounds good. but i still think i'm not totally "there" yet.
the system currently is as follows:
- ScottRT modded Technics SL-1600MK2
- Classe Audio DR-4 preamp. MM/MC phono stage
- ADC XLM MKIII, Pickering 1100S (basically a stanton 681EEE-S) or Spectral MCR Signature
two little things keeping me from being content. i have these DIY silver braided cables my friend made on my digital front end and from the amps to preamp. they sound AWESOME! they have this inexplicable touch of sexiness to them. i want to replace the currently soldered Petra locap interconnects on my SL-1600 with a KAB jackplate so i can try different cables.
and the last part i don't think i'll ever accomplish. one of the things i really dig about my ancient Theta DSPro GENIII DAC/Pioneer Elite CLD-79 digital front end is it's INSANE voltage. like 14V of gain! sounds like the band is going to fly out of the speakers!
i listen to a lot of hard rock and some metal. i can still blast my eardrums out with the turntable, but there's this "pent-up" aggression i hear that's really involving with my CD player.
see ya,
Robby
.....but with the various upgrades, motor, suspension, SDS etc, I suppose that's arguable. Certainly its a lot better table now than what I bought in 1989.
Also been using Graham arms for 20yrs now, first the 1.5T then the Phantom.
Current cartridge is my 5yr old Denon 103R which was been retipped by SoundSmith a couple of years back. This one is a keeper for the long term - I had a spare 103R retipped so I have a replacement on standby. I really don't want to be without it.
I window shop but, barring a lottery win, I really can't see myself changing this front end.
System Details
I have my SP-25 bolted to a 3/4" Baltic birch plywood top, which in turn rests on a solid graphite block suspended within the base unit. Herbie's platter mat. Powerful bass, clean highs, quietest backdrops ever. Also, I *SUSPECT* that this is the most neutral/uncolored sounding turntable I've ever owned - although it would be difficult to prove what "neutral/uncolored" really is. The AES PH-1 phono stage has been retubed with cryo'd, circa 1945 RCAs and is also a very quiet, stellar performer.
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
Edits: 07/08/12 07/08/12
...paired to a Fidelity Research FR64fx arm (nice Dynamic-balance arm from Japan 80s/90s) -- for 5 years running. In that time, I've heavily upgraded every other component in the chain. The table is now the "cheap" link in the chain (cheaper than some of the cables...heh).
Settled on the Koetsu stone body carts for now, but the SOTA setup also yields superb sound with stuff in the low $1K retail range (e.g. Ortofon Cadenza/Kontrapunkt, Benz). I had an Ortofon MC Windfeld and it wasn't my kind of sound at all; cartridge selection/voicing is quite critical.
I try CD again from time to time, but it's just not the same as vinyl. Recently auditioned the new Clearaudio Ovation (beautiful table) with a nice Cadenza on it; great table but I came away feeling that while the Ovation itself was probably a slight upgrade to my SOTA, I clearly prefer my FR arm w/ Koetsu over the Clearaudio arm w/ Ortofon.
Also, I should note that my SOTA hasn't ever had any major work done -- and it could use all new springs/bearing/belt/PS/etc (i.e. a full refurbish). It certainly needs a new platter/lip/vacuum, as that never worked (silicon lip lost its gripping/sealing abilities by the time I got it). Still, even in its present condition it just keeps running, and sounding great! The Koa wood body is quite stunning to behold. Super bargain for the $2K I paid (including the FR arm). I'd suggest that if you don't love vinyl with a setup like this -- then you just plain don't like vinyl! -- Mike
TD-295 mkIV w/ AT-OC9 ml/II and Rotel mm/mc phono pre.
I like it a lot.
enjoy,
mark
I've been quite happy with my rebuilt SOTA Star for 10 years now. By shear dumb luck I believe I feel into a good synergy with an SME IV arm and and Ortofon MC30 SuperII cartridge.
I'm due for a retip though.
And I'm pondering ways to redesign the plinth to mount another arm. I'd like to set up a mono arm and cartridge and I don't want to add another TT.
eso
They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves.“ Henry Chinaski
Who, if I may coin a phrase, could ask for anything more?
Yesterday I raised the arm pillar about a millimeter. Wow! Don't try that with your digital rig!
-reub
Hi, AudioSoul,
I lived with the same turntable for 30 years and during that time I replaced only the speakers and receiver when they began to fail. Then about 7 years ago after a life-changing event I went through a major stereo system quest, buying turntables, cartridges, phono preamps, an integrated amp, CD player, two sets of speakers, subwoofers, cables, vinyl cleaning and setup tools, etc.
But after the grand quest I'm ready to just sit, listen to music, and make occassional improvements in room acoustics and speaker placement. Tweaks. No new gear. I'm very happy with the setup and my attention is now on the music; old favorites and new discoveries. It feels great to be in the same mind-set as I was more than 30 years ago. Especially since the stereo is now my dream system. :-)
Regards,
Tom
I listened to endless Turntable Designs (Dual, Thorens, Linn, Garrard, Shindo, Kuzma, SME, TW, Rega, Project, Wilson Benesh, Goldmund Reference, Transrotor, Clearaudio, Rockport Sirius......,) and when I'm honest, I mean, really honest, with those named I would stop listening Analog at once and would change to iTunes.
I use a Basis Turntable & Graham Phantom sup.
Design Done Right.
but yes - I'm finally there.
What I was after was the effortlessness detail & transparency I heard from my old man's set up in 1980. Thorens TD150, Hadcock & Goldring entrée cartridge. It was just so musical - transparent & no vices or issues that reminded you were listening to vinyl. Just great sound.
I got the Linsley Hood phono stage when I still had the systemdek IIX with the rega 250. Spent a lot of time with cartridges & was never totally happy 'till I got the Michell Gyro - then put a Wilson Benesch act 0.5 on there. Then I made the effort to make an arc protractor specifically designed for the arm geometry.
Then I started cleaning my records.
Now I'm there. No nasties - no bearing rumble - no tracking distortion. Just fantastic sound from every record I put on there.
I'd like a Koetsu or something like that. I'd like to try using a better power supply for the Gyro. I'd like the Orbe screw-down puck - but for some reason I just keep buying more records !
Hi, rocky,
The Orbe spindle and record clamp upgrade isn't cheap but it is a worthwhile purchase. You can easily fine tune the amount of pressure on each record. If you plan on keeping that Gyro 'table for a while the investment in the Orbe clamp comes out to pennies a day.
Regards,
Tom
...and just recently bought my third, and not because I was unhappy with either one of the others, but because I found a good deal on it used, and had always wanted it.1990 - 2005 Kenwood KD-990.
2005 - 2012 VPI Scout. And now I have an Aries II and JMW 10.5...and I'm a grinnin' fool!
Edits: 12/18/12
Waxxy:
Like you, I had a table I was very happy with, a Nottingham Ace-Space Deck, Space arm, heavy kit and most recently a VPI SDS. The SDS made a huge impact in noise floor and timing. But then my friend decided to upgrade. I had been listening to his table in his system for about 6 years. It is a VPI TNT 6 with SME iv arm with rim drive, sds, rim and center weights, analysis plus din cable and SRA stand. At first, when he said he was going to sell it, I immediately thought my other friend, a confirmed VPI man would buy it. That was, until he told me what he would take for it, then all thought of my friend flew out the window and it (all 120 lbs of it) came home with me that day. This opened up a huge new horizon in my vinyl listening. In fact, I haven't spun a CD in over 6 months since it arrived.
My carts. are a Wilson Benesch Carbon, presently on loan to a friend; a zu 103 which is worth far more than they ask for it and a Lyra Argo i that was retipped by soundsmith.
I agree with another poster that the most effective inexpensive upgrade is to clean your records. Immediate results nearly every time. Also proper setup will yield amazing results, not just eyeball setup, but either buying or having a friend with the Feikert computer setup and a microscope. The difference was astounding and all it cost was a little wine.
Great topic.
Tom Collins
...I agree. Last year I bought my first vacuum based record cleaner and I'm very pleased with the results I'm getting. Using a 4 step process (enzyme, rinse, detergent, rinse) the records come out looking new. I've salvaged many with this process that would never have been playable otherwise.
Congrats on the new (to you) TNT.
Is like lusting after women. Its amazing how attractive they are when you first meet but things do seem to change radically after a short period of time.
IMO, the greater a component stands out, the sooner you are likely to tire of that component. Of course there are exceptions. Sometimes a component is really very good but most times a "hi-fi" component sounds wonderful because it accentuates some audible trait that shouldn't be highlighted.
Its a tough blend of traits and few components get it right. I have stayed with one cartridge for the past 30+ years because of that very thing. It isn't the best in any particular trait. It just makes wonderful music...IMO.
I try to choose components intentionally "not" to stand out. Of course you run the chance of getting something really boring and the reason a specific component doesn't stand out is because that component is just bland.
Many years ago I ran through a very long list of cartridges before I landed on the one I have used for over 30 years. The preamp I am using may also be one of those components that lasts a very long time. My headphones are hear to stay and my turntable is also staying. The jury is out on some of my other stuff.
Just imagine how many great LPs you could have purchased if you didn't get on that crazy upgrade train?
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
LIBERTY ONCE LOST,
IS LOST FOREVER
-JOHN ADAMS
Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? It gives everyone a place to express themselves. Sometimes thats a good thing and sometimes...
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Heavily modded TD125-II, Hadcock 242, and MusicMaker for many years now, and still very happy. Have heard a few 124s with good arms and well-matched cartridges that were just stuning. BTW Briggs, retro-fitting a Mayware Formula IV to the AR is pretty easy, and with a high-compliance cartridge, it was a big step up from the stock arm. (And that stock arm, maybe the crudest arm ever made, sounds so much better that it "should".)
WW
New Orthophonic High Fidelity
Yes, I love my current vinyl set up, but I have changed things a few times in the past three years. I'd be fine with what I have for many years.
I honestly haven't been that interested in analog hardware since I got my table and cartridge in 03. I've been that satisfied. Besides, I'm sure it would cost a small fortune to get a significant improvement.
marc g. - audiophile by day, music lover by night
Edits: 07/06/12
I don't have the fanciest system, and I never will. I'm pretty happy with it though, and I find the less I visit forums like this, the happier I am.
I still definitely want the KAB power supply for my Technics, a wood body for my Denon 103, and a delrin platter mat. But if I were reading people talking about that kind of stuff as often as I've done in the past, I'd feel really antsy about finally picking those things up. As it is, I've started checking here a little less and just listening to records.
I'm glad forums like this exist, but I've needed a break, for budgetary reasons if nothing else.
5+ years with the current setup, SL1200 MK3, AT125LC, B&K Pro5, Citation 12, Ohm 100 Mk3 (Mk2 cabinets, they're larger) gets down 20 30 hz in room. Good dynamics, to my ears a you are there experience.
even got out of vinyl for a couple years due to the fact that I can't stand inner groove distortion. With that problem finally solved I am very happy with my rig but have come to realize that with the extreme stylus shapes of some of todays best MC's, SRA is more important today than it ever was.
With my current rig, almost all records sound great all the way thru but some that used to sound fantastic with a different cartridge using a less extreme stylus shape on the same table now sound only good. I've learned to compromise and set the SRA to sound most detailed across my collection and not sweat the small details and just enjoy the music and when that record comes along that sounds frickin' great, I know the journey has been worth it!
~
i can't stand IGD!
and MC's super stiff cantilevers exacerbate the issue. my old skool ADC XLM MKIII just sorta cruises through all that crap.
i recently bought a good used Pickering 1100S (basically a pickering branded stanton 681EEE-S). i'll report back on how that one sounds.
Robby
for an availability of a good set up man for the Sondek. Until I am forced to migrate to something else I will keep enjoying it.
The demise of Miyabi/47 is troublesome and made me realise that those exotic one man band cartridges can disappear any time.
I really can't find the replacement for it within the budget. So starting all over again on a cartridge search. ( not happy about that )
There is always something that could be made better esp, when it comes to analog systems. If you define happy as enjoyable and tolerable, then yes, if you define it as completely satisfied, then no. It is a matter of balance of things. I had the same TT since 1987. Have tweaked it as much as i can tweak it. Do i listen to better tables? Yes. Can i afford the ones that would make a real difference? No. Would I buy something that is only better in one or two things? No. it has to be better in every aspect, by a wide margin, that is why i always end up liking 20 to 30 K tables...a definite no buy zone :), so i burry any unhappiness, and just listen to music, heck it sounds better than RBCDs and level with SACDs :)
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
"Dave" is still dead.
Jim
Simplify.
LIBERTY ONCE LOST,
IS LOST FOREVER
-JOHN ADAMS
However, Dave will be boxed-up this very weekend for his trip out West to be "reborn", so in a month or so I'll have Dave... and the "Carbondale"!
Jim
Simplify.
You will!!! bank some of those recent commissions, yes?
LIBERTY ONCE LOST,
IS LOST FOREVER
-JOHN ADAMS
My Q2 bonus is almost "silly good", and while I'm writing-out a "needs" and "wants" list, the lists are small, so roughly 70% of it (after taxes) will be going into savings.
Jim
Simplify.
Oops, :(
Sad. Tips up.
I've had my Rockport II Sirius LE since 1995 and it's still likely to be the greatest turntable I'll ever own. Ditto my relatively new (just under three years) Jadis JP200 MC preamp an JA200 amps. This stuff replaced Cello gear I had for 15 years.
Also have a VPI HW-19 I bought in 1984 (various upgrades to Mk. IV, I think) sporting an SME-V arm bought in 1993 (still have my circa 1984 Pierre Lurne unipivot in reserve).
The only change I'm going to make is the 10+year old Allaerts MC-1B Mk.II cartridge on the Rockport. It's a wonderful cartridge, but it needs to go back to Jan Allaerts as soon as I can find a replacement--which I'll definitely need, since I've been told I'll probably have at least an 18 month wait for the reconditioned cartridge.
Bottom line, I spend a lot of time trying to figure out the best-sounding gear (to my ears, of course) upfront, so I can spend my time enjoying music in the here and now--and long-term. Now that's just the way I approach my system and it works for me, but it's certainly not the only way.
for my Technics SL1210mkII, comin' up on 4 yrs for my used vintage Yamaha M4 amp & C70 premp, and 2.5 yrs since I found my vintage KLH model 6 speakers at the thrift. I can say that I am still extremely happy with all. (I admit, the SL1210 got a very nice upgrade with new interconnects that my son did for me recently.) The Yam combo is still oh so satisfying, and the KLH 6 speakers amaze me at times, tho I'm very familiar now with their sonic signature. I never get the itch to replace these components.
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
-----------------------------
Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/ADC XLMII-Yam C-70 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
I am still using an AR-XA I found at an estate sale almost twenty years ago. It currently has a Shure V15Vx/Jico SAS. The only recently acquired element is the Jico. That was definitely worthwhile.
I enjoy the music and have no plans to upgrade.
It plays good records...good. It plays great records, great...and it even plays bad (poor condition/mediocre recordings), pretty well. What more could one ask for?....and I have loads of LPs to play. It's vinyl nirvana!
Edits: 07/06/12
...I was happy with the last one, the one before that, the one before that, the one before that ...
Vinyl always satisfies.
However, if one comes along that I think might be better than what I have and it is dirt cheap, I'll probably give it a shot.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I had a patient and knowledgeable dealer (r.i.p. Brooks) who, over a few months or so, guided me into a vinyl system that I've enjoyed for around 10 years now. only major changes over that time were better vandersteen speakers when the wood quatro came out, slowly upgrading my tt (to rim drive ssm) and of course cartridges. I'm completely content with what i've had for the last few years and feel no need to look further. In my case it was about having a knowledgeable dealer who let me audition numerous pieces of equipment/upgrades at home and having enough disposable income to buy what sounded best to me. I miss Brooks' presence......
My vinyl system sounds wonderful but that doesn't mean I don't like to experiment and try different gear. This is not exclusive to vinyl. I'm sure others enjoy trying new gear, vinyl or otherwise. This doesn't necessarily mean we are dissatisfied with our current setup.
Our turntable was a big purchase for us, but even after 6-7 years we never think about replacing it.
I am interested in the Bottlehead Eros but every listening session so far, has me telling myself 'leave it alone'.
I don't have many goals or needs. I wanted to be able to listen to my 70s and 80s record collection. I needed to a new belt for a family turntable (a Dual CS506). I found the VA website and other sites - I bought a new belt, I printed a cart protractor and I followed the cart set up guidance. I'm happy with my low budget system.
I like buying used records - that's where my spending goes. And the quality of the recordings and the condition of the records has a big impact - as much an impact - on the audio as does the equipment, IMO.
I haven't compared my system to any other systems. I haven't listened to other systems. I'm a skeptic when it comes to serial upgrades of audio equipment. I am skeptical only b/c I once read in a hi fi mag that judging audio merits of loudspeakers (for example) - was a real undertaking. The magazine article said you have to take care when you make the compaison - so they hid the appearance of speakers behind screening - so there wouldn't be a visual bias or brand bias, they set volume carefully to the same level b/c louder is usually perceived as better. The comparison judging was in a single, short session - said you can't expect to remember or compare sound quality after any length of time - they were switching between speaker brands, listening just for a matter of seconds or minutes.
Although I say now that making A to B comparisons is difficult and open to bias, I still make my own easy comparisons. I buy a used record; I clean the record; later, I play it again and I tell myself, "Yeah, better - less crackle."
The two stayems as they are now, put a smile on my face every time I listen to music.
The "office" system is changing pretty often, it always has, but especially lately with the addition of the Thorens TD160. The Kenwood KD500 really rocks me. Lately, the search for hum eradication has caused some dismay, but since I now know its source, it does not lessen the experience as it had in the last few weeks.
The big system amazes me, it's one of those systems you listen to an LP you thought you knew well, and with that last equipment change/tweak hear things you never noticed in the past. A new LP...without buying a new LP!
There are things I'd like to add/change...but if I never spent another dime I'd still have a smile on my face every time I played a record.
******************************
Music. Window or mirror?
Muzikmike-Oddly enough,I owned a TD-160 throughout college then replaced it with a KD-500 between college and grad school.Good turntables both and many good memories from those days.Thanks
I mainly use two tables.
I vintage 2006 SOTA (I do admit to having had the arm updated) and a vintage 1985 Michell Gyrodec that pleases me more with its original parts and motor than other more recent versions I have heard.
.
We'll let it slide this time.....
I have the Rega in the Bryston 1.5 phono box. And the Kuzma on an Audio Research Sp-15 i use for the tubed phono section. (I just want to keep the SP-15 around, and use it once in awhile to keep it in good condition.)
I also own an Audio Research PH-2 i have connected to a Dual Golden One with a Dynavector Ruby23.
I would sell the Dual, but with so many great introductory TTs no around, i doubt I could sell it.
I think it's easier to be happier if you have multiple systems to play. If I only had one I think I'd get bored with it. I always enjoy going back to what I think is my best system after spending some time in other rooms of the house listening to some of the other setups....but when I come back to the prime system I love it.....yet it's always nice to try something else too.
My Nottingham Space 294/Grado Gold isn't the best, but it is good enough to carry me away... AVA Super PAS 3I into the Zen Torii MkIII and Tannoy Canterbury's and I am captivated 8> )
I am over the top happy with my vinyl system. :-)
I could be, and am, tempted by a Trans-Fi Salvation; but, my main table(s) won't be going anywhere.
Happy with all four of my turntable/tonearm combinations, each of which have been in use for at least 2 years. Which is kind of maddening because I really should sell one or two of them. I am emotionally attached.
I got my first new turntable in 1966, and while I've changed several times since then (I've had my current Kuzma over a dozen years) vinyl playback remains my preferred source.
Is it possible that your boredom comes from your software selections? Have you experimented with new artists and/or types of music?
Of course I feel this hobby must accept compromises. No system I've ever heard compares to a great live music experience. If we expect that level I think we will always be disappointed, new gear or not.
"For a nominal service fee,
you can reach nirvana tonight."
Yes, I'm very happy with my various turntables. The two in primary use in the studio are a Technics SP-15 and a highly modified SL-1200MK5. A dozen plus cartridges and a couple of Bugle Pro phono preamps make it all sound great. I also have a Technics SL-6 (direct drive linear tracker w/P-mount) in a downstairs system that sounds terrific.
Not thinking of anyone in particular, but I get the impression there's a few guys who are chasing the impossible 'perfect sound' rather than simply focusing on enjoying the music. That seems to lead to a bad/never ending case of 'upgradeitis.' I'm more likely to make changes when I hear a real problem, otherwise I'm a happy camper.
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