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In Reply to: RE: Vintage SS Japanese receivers.... the time is past? posted by Mossback on October 16, 2016 at 09:20:47
I hesitate to ever recommend a reciever. Too much stuff crammed into too small a space. The radio part in these units tends to cause the most problems (in terms of restore) and one has to question how viable that format is....even now, leave alone the future.
That said the better units of that vintage had reasonable build quality. Their ratings were more conservative than todays mass market stuff.
For example I have a couple of sansui 9090db's. Forget about keeping the dolby radio right....just not worth the cost and effort....nor is there a need. If it came right down to it, and I had to convert them to nothing more than straight power amps, they would still be worth the price IMHO.
So I think you need to ask yourself what it is you want. A part of yesterday? Something at a price point that will continue to function affordably for a period of time?
What tends to make things unrepairable in the future are when lots of things are stuffed into a "chip" and that chip is longer obtainable. Sometimes it is the actual transistors/fets used but that isn't often. In that sense the units you are talking about are mostly far more repairable than newer units will be in their distant future.
There are units, like the HK's with dual power supplies, that actually had darn good preamp sections. But frankly most of the tone/preamp circuits are bettered by todays designs. What isn't better is the massive power transformers and heatsinks.
So I'd guess in a round about way I'd be saying to look at them more as power amps only and go for the house sound you like.
IMHO one would be crazy silly to buy one for a few hundred dollars on ebay and then pay someone another few hundred bucks to restore. They just aren't worth 700-1,000+ bucks in todays sound quality IMHO. But if you can grab a yard sale item for cheap, strip it down, toss a bunch of resistors and caps in it....and end up with a power amp that will play 100 watts per channel all day long into the worst speaker load in the world....well you could do a lot worse.
Follow Ups:
There are still a few people that have a quality FM station in there area. When I lived in NJ I obviously wasn't one of them! Even with my network player I find myself listening to only two or three favorite stations. And I have about a thousand (in the classical genre) or so to choose from.
But don't forget how much looks come into play in audio. How many times have we heard "those big blue meters" when people refer to McIntosh. Not the sound but those meters. Those looks account for a significant percentage of McIntosh sales.
The receiver was one of the "show pieces" in audio. It had it all, looks, lights, dials, knobs, switches, filters.... It was a wonderland of options and fun. A perfect marriage of form and function.
Sure it had it's downfalls. But those were the very SAME downfalls even the high end separates had. Like preamp sections with far too many connections, controls and yes - even the same tone circuits.
Yes trade offs had to be made to put all that in one box. However the engineers of that time did a fantastic job doing just that. Companies took pride in selling something "great" and one upping the competition. It was a great but brief time in audio where the consumer WAS the WINNER.
Personally I don't use many vintage preamps. And yes for the very reasons you did mention. However I do like vintage amps. And that is why I am having a Marantz 250M restored to match up with my new Conrad Johnson classic 2SE preamp.
But receivers - a work of art and if I had the room or money I would have an entire collection of them restored.
Charles, take that 9090db I mentioned. Introduced in 1975 with a MSRP of 900 bucks.
That is a little over 4 grand today. I don't know about you but I wouldn't pay 4 grand for a receiver even if I could afford to!
But you are talking about a time when a hand calculator with simple functions cost hundreds of dollars.
There was a lot of hands on assembly in those units. Big parts, discrete components, most hand soldered.
Try pricing an equivalent receiver today. It would be over $4k.
But I think the OP was are they worth it today to restore
You have made a very good point Russ, particularly in light of the fact that top notch tuners are readilly available for net to nothing. For this reason, I have focused my vintage collecting on separates.
I still think that there are sound reasons why a person might still wan't to restore a receiver. The receiver my be an object of lust from youth. There are some receivers that have retained enough of their value that it is worth the restore. Certain Marantz and McIntosh models come to mind. There are also models where the performance is good enough to warrant a rebuild, as long as you don't plan to sell it (Kyocera, Yamaha, Denon, Luxman). This would make most sense if you DIY. If you paying someone, the list would be small (IMO).
Although the original poster was focusing on 70's ears receiver, if sound is what you are after, I would recommend looking to the 80's and even early 90's. Although many brands were on a downhill slide, Denon, Yamaha, Kyocera, Sony ES and Nakamichi made some very high quality equipment, which often only need minor work.
Dave
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Dave you are correct there are better tuners to be found other than what the typical mid 70's receiver was equipped with. We are lucky here to have a few good FM stations today. But for how long.
In my case its simple nostalgia to own and use one again.
Fortunately I have a few good stations in my area. I have a bunch of amazing tuners that I payed nothing for. My current heavy hitter is a B&K tuner that is really a Fanfare without the remote. The ergonomics suck, but boy does this thing sound good!I do have a working Carver receiver, which is supposedly very good. There are some mods on the web, recommended by Eli that are supposed to make it kick-ass. We shall see.
Dave
Edits: 10/18/16
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It is the B&K TS-108. I think that it is the only Tuner that B&K ever made. It was made when B&W and Fanfare were in the same facility.
Dave
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