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Lots of caps are designed for ac use, not just X and Y types, and go into the many Uf range. I have been using Aerovox lighting caps for years and years, each of which is 55uf, these are designed for ac use and designed to be self extinguishing. Supposedly there is no shock danger if used across the line. I have checked this out with an electronics engineer and he concurred. Although someone at Aerovox told me they were Type X he must have been incorrect as they are not rf suppression caps and are too high a value. Designed for AC, designed not to catch fire I see no safety problem. I do make sure that a high quality plug and thick wire is used to take whatever heat accrues in the plug and don't touch the leads. No shock, no fire, no problem, yes? If this is dangerous in some fundamental way please give a detailed scientific explanation why. Of course you can get shocked if they are unplugged with a charge and you touch them. Thanks, Tweaker EDIT: 8/12 I should have said that I see very little safety problem not "no" safety problem. Even the WIMA type X capacitors can catch fire and are self extinguishing. Also because of the concerns about this issue I rescind any recommendation explicit or implied. The Aerovox dry type lighting caps may or may not be self healing. I am in contact with Aerovox over that issue, there is some confusion over this at their end. They are for continuous use. Not motor start. They are plugged in and out on a circuit with a breaker away from the cap, regular house protection breaker. T
Edits: 08/05/16 08/05/16 08/12/16Follow Ups:
be better than trying to do such Dangerous tweaking to the AC line? I have had a regenerator before but I may try a AC Voltage regulator like those for Musical instruments. Maybe even an Isolation Transformer would be better?I did a Auricap tweak along time ago but I still think about it all the time when using that DIY preamp. I did put the .47uf/1200vdc cap behind the fuse and switch so if anything does go wrong the fuse will pop and will not see the AC line all the time. Even then still, I never leave it on when I'm not there in the room.
The AC line voltage in my area varies so much between 117V to 125V at times that I would need a steady ac source better than a dangerous filter tweak/s. That should help out also but don't know how much.
I still use a PS Audio Ultimate outlet for all gear AC plugs. I did have a PS Audio P300 for the front end gear that I wish I never got rid of. Worked great for the turntables, Cd players, tuner, EQ, and cassette deck.
I have been happy with just the PS Audio UO and with good AC connectors, power cords, and Receptacles.
I still remember the post either here on the AA or another forum where a member was doing something to his amp while it was on with the cover off, his hand either slipped or he accidently touched something with his other hand on the chassis and was killed. I would hate to hear something like that happened to anyone here or their family member/s hurt do a dangerous tweak just to get that little extra something out of their system. Just is not worth it!
I do agree with the other posters about safety, Especially the certified Electrician comments on might as well cancel your insurance since if something does happen and the investigators find the source to be tampering to the AC lines then they will not pay. Also if anyone is seriously hurt (or killed) from this type of tweak, you could be facing criminal charges. Just because something serious hasn't happened yet as far as anyone here knows about, doesn't mean it CAN'T happen. Better to be safe than sorry.
I may be going to the extreme, but anything CAN happen when dealing with AC and electronics.
Please, Let us all be safe and enjoy our systems. Remember, it's just a hobby!
Edits: 08/12/16
You might as well cancel your homeowner's insurance. If you have a fire, and somebody notices the caps, your insurance company will throw your claim in the round file.
1. If not X or Y rated, then the caps can be a hazard if connected across the AC line. A fire hazard, a shock hazard, etc. Recommendations such as this are inherently dangerous and should not be espoused to others in a public forum.
The self extinguishing aspect is NOT sufficient to provide enough fire hazard safety, and such experiments should be fused or circuit breakered accordingly
2. A cap value of 55 uF will end up looking like an impedance of approx 50 ohms at 60 Hz. That's a lot of leakage current, well beyond what UL considers safe, and I am sure it violates fire codes as well.
Consider this, with a "normal" AC line circuit, there is not supposed to be a significant voltage difference between the Neutral and the Ground lines. With a 55 uF cap (or more if multiples are used)across the line AT THE COMPONENT, that is no longer the case, and a serious and fatal shock could be delivered from the Neutral line to someone who is earth grounded.
On the whole, this much capacitance is dangerous and too much for the average DIYer or Tweaker to place across the AC line with impunity.
Obviously, you as an individual are free to do as you wish, but to recommend something along these lines to others is unwise and irresponsible.
Jon Risch
Is there a commercially available product that is an iec connector and capacitor or filter that is all built into a single housing? Something off the shelf that is a simple mod and I would not have to worry about any safety issues.
Pat
An IEC filter has caps and noise and spike suppression built in.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
What happens to this filter if it is hit by a 5600v surge from a lightning strike? Might it catch on fire or explode? Is it UL or similar agency approved?? T456
Edits: 09/13/16
Mikey,
Do you like these or do you build your own?
Pat
JR, Do you see a shock hazard if the caps are not AT THE COMPONENT, meaning plugged into either the same or a different ac receptacle?
Edits: 08/09/16
In theory, it is slightly better if the caps are not at the component, but at the breaker box.
However, the bottom line is that it is still dangerous.
Jon Risch
Guys, let me tell you cautionary tale about amateurs and electricity.
Push pull system, friends advise him to place a 50uF motor run capacitor across the line and neutral (240 volts, 50 hertz.
Does so and is highly impressed with the new sound.
He then fits a second one - even better. As always, more is better so in goes third one.
Here we use a Ring Mains system where each half of the ring can support 3 kilowatts. The ring main wiring burns out right back to the main board.
Where two units are plugged into the same socket, that burns out completely.
The fuss over it being dangerous to self, is a bit overplayed.
Regards to all.
JohnR
I don't think the type of capacitor the OP is talking about are run capacitors.
An AC run capacitor is designed to be hooked up across the mains, at the motor, continuously. Don't try that with a start capacitor though.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_capacitor
Edits: 08/12/16
I have edited my OP on this issue. I shouldn't have been able to since it is so old and there have been responses. Don't know what's up with that. I did not edit the language in the original post. Aerovox dry type (and oil type) lighting caps are continuous use caps. The tutorials say that shock risk is not a concern with across the line caps and there is a fire danger upon failure in short mode. You can read the exact language in a number of spots. Don't understand the leakage thing in relation to across line caps in failure as a short. Self healing would reduce that risk along with being fused. There are other types of caps that have increased protection from internal shorts. Even Type X safety caps can catch fire and are or can be described as self extinguishing. Maybe they should not be used either? Zero risk with the use of capacitors across the AC does not exist. Tweaker
Edits: 08/12/16
I have edited my OP on this issue. I shouldn't have been able to since it is so old and there have been responses. Don't know what's up with that.
//
Posted by Tweaker456 (A) on August 13, 2016 at 08:29:04
Up until recently there has always been a time limit and once someone replied you could not edit the post. The edit and delete go away. I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. If it were not the case anyone could just change anything they said and it would be unworkable. No discussion would have any merit.
Again,The AA program does not have a time limit or a limit after a response has been posted. I think after a thread has been archived the post can not be edited.
As for the specific caps you are using it would have helped if you would have provided a Link to a site showing the specs for the caps you have.
There are some lighting caps that are made to be connected across the line. There are others that are made to be placed in series with the winding of the ballast. (LC, Inductor/capacitor, circuit.)
http://www.lampholder.net/lampholders/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/high-pressure-sodium-ballasts-wire-diagram.gif
I believe in all cases the cap is there mainly to correct PF, Power factor.Some AC capacitors not only are used to correct PF but also will raise the line voltage. You might want to check the line voltage at the equipment you are using the caps on without the caps connected and then with the caps connected.
Edits: 08/13/16 08/13/16
Up until recently there has always been a time limit and once someone replied you could not edit the post. The edit and delete go away. I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. If it were not the case anyone could just change anything they said and it would be unworkable. No discussion would have any merit.
When I saw I had made a mistake. It's the Subject line you can't edit.
I just edited my previous post.
Check the edit date below the page on my previous post.
Of course you must login, upper right hand corner of the page, before you can edit a post.
You can not delete a post after someone has posted to your post. You can not delete a post after 24 hours.
Signing is is a good idea. Why didn't I think of that. Now my OP in this thread can be edited but no longer deleted. Looks like you can't edit after a certain amount of time.
So I signed in and at first it looked like I couldn't edit post. Now everything seems to come up with edit delete. Many times before when this has happened and I tried to edit a post it would say nice try and wouldn't let me do it because it was already answered or to old?? Why should you be able to completely change a post after it's been out for awhile or was already responded to??
"Where two units are plugged into the same socket, that burns out completely.
The fuss over it being dangerous to self, is a bit overplayed."
Even potentially starting a fire in your house as you posted? Amateurs and electricity are a bad combination and your statement at the end of your post I perceive as irresponsible.
FYI... I am a qualified electrician and have over 25 years experience in industrial electric systems and instrumentation. I understand the theory behind using shunting caps to reduce noise. I have been required on several occasions to install them to put a band aid on a problem. I certainly would not attempt what was advocated by the OP. I would even be hesitant to install Al Sekala's device as mentioned by another poster.
Safety concerns aside, the filtering approach achieved by putting massive shunt caps by themselves is not going to be that much compared with using a much smaller cap in a more optimal filter topology. An RC or CLC topology could allow reduction of the sizes of these multi hundred u farrad caps to only a few mics each at most and probably achieve even better noise filtering. I wouldn't necessarily recommend CLC's for less experienced amateurs due to the inrush current/ back emf over voltage problem that could break downstream semiconductors. RC's seem like they could be a very effective approach a careful amateur might safely have good success killing noise with, however.
Besides, best case scenario this type of filtering can only address differential mode noise. I'm not entirely convinced some common mode filtering along with all this diff mode filtering wouldn't go a long way for a lot of folks looking to quiet down the ac.
I read that there is no concern for shock with caps across the ac. X type caps. are made up to 10uf for sale to the public. So are you saying that there is a shock hazard if more than 10uf are used? I have , as I said before, discussed this with an electronic engineer and he agreed that there was no concern for shock with fairly large amounts of capacitance. I did a fair amount of checking and research about this. Not saying I'm absolutely right on this but I did much to validate the shock safety thing. In a previous discussion with an aerovox agent I was told that the specific lighting caps I talked about and use were Type X. Looks like I was given inaccurate info.
If anyone knows, it is you.
What could be the good of doing it at all? Is there something to be gained or it is just danger with no possibility of improving the quality of the line?
Massive amounts of capacitance across the AC line will tend to filter out EMI to a limited extent, not so much RFI.
IF one were having significant amounts of EMI on their AC line, then the removal of some of that would probably make a positive sonic difference.
However, given that such large amounts of capacitance can be dangerous or even deadly, it would behoove the person inflicted with such EMI problems to track down the source of the EMI, and eliminate it at the source, or provide as much attenuation at the source as possible. Then, just a uF or two might suffice to clean up the left-overs.
The problematic issues with using such large amounts of capacitance directly across the full 120VAC line is one of the big whoopee deal reasons my Super Quick & Dirty Digital filter was so effective but without the downside of a large amount of leakage current: the filtering capacitors were isolated across the back-to-back secondaries of the two transformers, and so, the user never saw the leakage current at all, yet you could pile on fairly large capacitance for maximum filtering effect.
I am referring to this filter:
(SEE: http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/43988.html
my additional "tweak":
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/47160.html )
Other folks have tried it using 1 to 1 iso transformers, of a size that does not limit the wall outlet current maximum (essentially a 2000W transformer). Have to use full AC line rated X caps here but it still has very low leakage current.
Jon Risch
Putting mfd range caps across the AC line will shift power factor. Unless you have a power factor problem and need to do that it serves no purpose. And determining if you have a power factor problem is way beyond the general knowledge on this forum. In a residence you don't worry about power factor.Power factor is the lead/lag of the current vs voltage. That's right, current out of phase with the voltage! Wrap your mind around that idea.
Thinking that a mfd range cap does a better job filtering out RFI than a mmfd cap is just novice logic. If you have a bad RFI problem then you need a Pi filter.
Edits: 08/09/16 08/09/16
"Thinking that a mfd range cap does a better job filtering out RFI than a mmfd cap is just novice logic. If you have a bad RFI problem then you need a Pi filter."
In case you really want to know, look up Capacative reactance.
Uncle Mike, Setting aside the safety concern let me address the novice logic comment. In listening tests larger capacitance sounds better, plain and simple. It looks like it would be kosher from a safety point of view to compare an across the line say .47 to a 10uf Type X safety capacitor without too much effort or expense. IMHO, YMMV This is not based on theory or math but direct experience. Pretty much the reason for most if not all of my comments about recommendations. Anyone who either feels or knows that any of this is dangerous than don't do it. T
Your story has changed. You've gone from claiming 300uf capacitance to only 10uF. Seems like backpedaling to appear more reasonable within the forum. You seem to have a desire to make enormous capacitance values and massive wire gauges to be groundbreaking options to present to the forums, with no other explanations of what they actually do other than it "sounds better" to you. I have serious doubts about the veracity and intent of your eccentric evaluation processes other than coloring the sound just for the sake of it. If 300uF capacitance "sounds better" to your ear than a proper value capacitor for RFI suppression, then something must be seriously skewed in your audio system. Perhaps you are unknowingly attempting to provide a fix for one or more unknown radical tweaks you've previously done to make it "sound better".
First of all I never actually recommended 300uf across the AC, it's what I use. I did recommend larger than X type come in by accident because the manufacturer, Aerovox, told me they were X type. So if JR says they may be hazardous don't anyone use them. The 10uf x type look like they have been vetted for safety. The contention that if something sounds better it means there is something skewed in my system seems just another way to make everything I say seem false. And if it were true that there was something wrong that was remedied, I say hallaluya. Sounding better to me is good enough. I ain't backing down from that. I thought that's what we are here for. Except me, who is just an egomaniac trying to give people false info. Or just plain deaf. I prefer the latter as an insult but you can take your pick. Thick(er) wire, conductive greases, brass as footers, brass being better sounding than carbon fiber, the use of EAR isodamp as an excellent vib absorbing product are all things perceived by others. This whole hobby is substantially about opinion and experimentation. Maverick
Edits: 08/09/16
Tweaker456 wrote:
"First of all I never actually recommended 300uf across the AC, it's what I use."
That's more backpedaling on your part. In most cases, when end users post information about a configuration they choose for a particular application, that information is implicitly a suggestion, recommendation, or otherwise opinionated advice with an inference of propriety. Furthermore, since Audio Asylum not just a come-and-go chat room, you have to own what you say in a public forum. Search engines including Google and the AA Archives can provide valuable advice and insights that folks may come across over the course of many years, so you really should watch what you say, especially when it comes to any information about modification of the AC delivery path. Many years ago, when I posted a DIY report about a power cord I built with bulk-length speaker cable, I later came to greatly regret posting that potentially dangerous information, and still fully regret doing such an irresponsible thing, even to this day.
Because that's what larger caps in the mfd range across the AC line do, either correct a poor power factor or create one!Large industrial plants with hundreds or thousands of electric motors, or a few very large motors often install capacitor banks to cancel the highly reactive load from the motors. The utility also installs line capacitors at substations to correct for poor power factor on the distribution system.
Calculating the values needed for close to unity power factor involves heavy AC circuit theory with deep trigonometry.
In a home setting they serve absolutely no purpose and are a potential fire hazard.
Edits: 08/07/16
If your very large shunt capacitance for AC use is not intended for RFI suppression, then what are you trying to achieve? You seem to fiddle around with anything you might fancy to experiment with in order impress yourself and others as being some sort of maverick tweaker, regardless of how many audiophile sensibilities you disrespect and disregard in the process.
When it comes to tweaking AC delivery, it's very irresponsible to post unsound advice in a public forum. AC kills. If you don't mind risking your own life, you can rationalize anything you wish to believe. However, don't post such things in a forum that are not supported by common sense safety concerns. Don't be foolish -- stop posting such questionable AC delivery advice in Audio Asylum, and then ask AA Inmates to prove you wrong. Breaking any rule just for the sake of it is not a respectable audiophile goal, and a potentially dangerous thing to advise in a public forum when it comes to an arbitrary modification of the AC delivery path.
The logical fallacies just keep on swirling. I bow down to you Duster, sire of all truth. Of such a regal nature that you don't even have to condescend to answer questions when challenged, with logical reasoned arguments. I suggest you team up with Geoff. If it makes you feel better I will formally retract my recommendation to use any caps ,even if designed for AC, even if they are way above the 120v rating and are encloded in a metal box, that are not rated X or Y and keep a recommendation for people to consider listening to the Vishay 10uf Type X caps across the ac line. Also I recommend that people don't unplug the 10uf cap and then put their tongue on it or try to zap their wife , kids or servile dogs with it. Thanks your elegance, Tweaker
Edits: 08/06/16 08/06/16
No need to get fussy about this at Duster.
He is right in that your recommendation is dangerous, and may not provide any worthwhile benefits, certainly not guaranteed for everyone who might try it.
So chill out and be more respectful of other posters, and not just Duster.
RE the safety issues, see my reply above.
Jon Risch
It's foolish to try to slay the messenger rather than consider good advice based on the experience and insight of many audiophiles over the years, not just me. My responses to you are not ego-driven, they are based on supporting the online audiophile community, for the sake of better audio and reasonable safety concerns.
Your opinions tend to be eccentric at best, often with a derogatory attitude towards AA Inmate's findings and well-informed insights. Acting like a confrontational snarky badass does not build credibility nor any respect within an online audio forum. You are near the top of the list of narcissistic attention-seeking posters who have a self-centered and contentious social attitude in Audio Asylum.
From my perspective, no matter what I say, or how I respond to you as a poster in AA, you never seem willing to accept good advice, or heed valuable findings by others. I have noted that in most cases, you seem to think you can achieve high-performance results while rejecting the cost of audiophile products that would provide what you seek, tending to complain about how SOTA products are too expensive, then tell tall-tales about how your cheap tweaks are better than other AA Inmate's findings and insights that you try to pick a childish fight with. So yes, I think you are trolling for attention in Audio Asylum, acting like a dumbass, a loose cannon, and quite often a self-aggrandizing naysayer.
You should pay attention and follow another AA Inmate's advice to build a respectable AC filter like Al Sekela's parallel AC filter design that Awe-d-o-file posted:
See link:
Yes we're going to follow your lead of using just a cap over an r-c-r filter circuit designed by the renowned engineer and tweaker Al Sekela. And then you harass people with your cynnical replies. Grow up.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
is where you should have started before doing the DAC. Power is the first place to start because the old Electronics saying is "crap in, crap out" actually the word was a little stronger than that. LOL! :)
Use good AC receptacles like Hubble or P&S. Then use the best AC plugs, with AC cables, and IEC plugs. If you haven't done that yet that is a good place to start before the AC tweak.
I then got a PS Audio Ultimate outlet which was another level up in sound and made the system more quiet and less harsh.
I did the Auricap tweak many years ago to my DIY preamp and on other gear and it was a big difference in sound. But, like anything else in tweaking It wasn't the best result in all situations.
AC is worse than ever and continues to become noisier. More RFI and EMI in our homrs than ever. Hubbell and Pass and Seymour are the mid fi of outlets. Try a good Oyaide or Furutech AND their expensive covers. Well worth the money.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
extra cash. With the cables I make they are the best for the prices. I used Furutech male AC Plug and IEC plugs. After 150 hours of break in, I still wasn't happy with the results. I put the Hubbell HBL8215C plug on with Wattgate IEC. way better results. The Furutech and Oyaide plugs I bought later are just sitting in their boxes.One thing the Furutech does well is the grip on their IEC plugs. The best I have used.
This is just my opinion for cables and AC plugs in my system. Been there and done that with all types of plugs.
Edits: 08/06/16
I feel plugs dont make as big a difference after trying many up to $300 retail and making AC cables.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Sorry, read through your post too fast and missed that you were talking about outlets. I never tried the Furutech or Oyaide outlets. I'm happy with the Hubbell 8300 outlets but will maybe give the Furutech or Oyaide outlets a try just too see. Thanks
Eric's Hi-Fi Blog AC outlet and plug shoot out
Reviews the Hubbles along with 3 different Oyaide's. Inmate Norm commented he liked the Hubble 5362 the most until he heard the Oyaide R0. T
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Sunday, April 14, 2013
AC Outlet and Plug Shoot Out (Work in Progress
I already tried both WITH the all important WPC-Z cover. I re oved the zHubbell and installed the Oyside. Hubbell not even in the same league. I had my wife listen without saying anything or reacting and she was as shocked as me. There are some things you can't go cheap on. Its now over $300 for the outlet and cover combo and still very well worth it. You won't know until YOU try. That review means nothing to me except I won't believe anything he says. I didnt see where he tried the cover. Hello! I also prefer the dark war!the of the SWO-XXX over the R1 and others.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Got them both for under $250.
house. But it shows at amazon it was delivered to my house. I have been home all day and no one came to the house except for the UPS guy with my tubes.
I even saw the Amazon truck go down the street and when I went out he had kept on going.
I just hope if it was delivered to a neighbor that they will bring it. We shall see!
Also, the Amazon customer service is no help. Got a person in the Philippines and they just kept repeating the same stuff like a parrot, they say to wait until Monday.
Relax, have a beer, listen to some music. Wait until Monday.
Edits: 08/12/16
Well Cougar, I'm chillin out, listening to music and drinking beer. Please don't ruin it by telling me how good they sound! Maybe just a tini weeni bit better than the Hubble's?
Cool. I hope it works and as I did and always do ordered from some place that has a return policy. Looking forward to your post. Clean the copper on the Romex when you install it.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Cougar, be very interested in your impressions once they come in. I have a good duplex outlet, but haven't taken the plunge into a cover. Slumming it with a plain 'ol oversize stainless cover. But I still sleep well at night knowing it's made out of 300 series stainless (non-magnetic). :)
You might try the Duster recommended Brainerd 126453 receptacle cover. Very good inexpensive tweak IMO. Others also like it a lot. I put Mortite in the groves that are on the back side. T
Thanks for that, Tweaker (and Duster!). Hadn't seen that post before.
I'm not ready to put the money into the Oyaide, at least yet. But $9 for the Brainerd? That I'll do. With my luck, it'll end being one of those "Oh crap" experiences and I'll then be ordering an Oyaide. :)
Just make sure that after you install it that you get a brass center screw for it next time your in a hardware store. Yuge upgrade. T
Be careful when you mount the R1 to the WPC-Z bracket. The 4 small screws for securing the R1 ground strap to the bracket should not be torqued too hard in order to avoid stripping the threads. Also, the carbon fiber faceplate may crack if the screw for the faceplate is tightened excessively.
No prob! I had Hubbell and they were cryoed and better than stock, but not a whole lot better. My system outlet is only six feet from my mains panel. Lucky me.
When I got the Oyaide and their expensive WPC-Z cover I bought it from a place that had a thirty day return policy. The first listen was a holy shit moment. If you can give them both a try I think youll be impressed.
The SWO-XXX is warmer than the R1, I have both. Not cheap but worth it IMO. Cheers!
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
earlier today and will see how this is compared to the Hubbell 8300 I have.
I recommend trying the Oyaide or Furutech AC connectors in your collection after you install the Oyaide R1 AC outlet. You might be very pleased to find great synergy with either or both of those brands when plugged-into the Oyaide R1, which I find to be a notably versatile AC outlet when mated with various Audio Grade AC connectors. Which Oyaide and Furutech models do you have, and what make/model AC power cable?
FI-11M Gold and the Oyaide (can't remember the model) but it's in a box somewhere.
I'm curious to know which Oyaide models you have...
P-037 Male AC plug. I was looking for it, I just need to find which box it is in.
If it's an authentic Oyaide P-037, then it might be okay, but with unpredictable synergy with the Oyaide R-1, IME. Try the Furutech Golds, instead.
once I receive my Oyaide R1 outlet. Hopefully I will have better results this time.
Got the caps for the AC maybe 20 years ago. Have had the Hubble receptacle for many years. Been using the P&S plugs for awhile and have recently switched to Sonarquest cu aluminum body plugs with a very nice result. The one pro made ac filter I have heard by itself hurt the sound. The person who had it bought caps to use across the ac. Very simple effective tweak. When caps were added to another pro made ac filter the improvement was considerable in that situation also. If not thought safe in large capacitive values with caps designed for ac but are not technically Type X one can get a Vishay 10uf Type X caps. Way larger than say .47uf and should quell any worry. In my opinion, as stated before larger values with this simple filter will sound better. One benefit that JR said of his digital filter was that because of the lower voltage between transformer you could use more capacitance. Tweaker
Parallel filtering of AC is better in my mind than series filtering. I concur with the other reply that bigger is not better. I like Al Sekelas parallel AC filter design where four separate R-C-R networks are used between hot and neutral. Even better is that circuit with an added resistor/inductor string between neutral and safety ground.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Edits: 08/06/16 08/06/16
.
Use these parts:100R> .47uf> 100R
120R> .047uf> 120R
180R> .0047uf> 180R
220R> 1000pf> 220RCaps are Wima MP3 X rated
Resistors are PRP 1% 1/2 watt flameproofConnect those four series R-C-R in parallel with each other between hot and neutral.
I remember the five resistors in the resistor inductor string are 27 ohm but I forget the inductor values. Im in a nursing rehab now, not home. Thats the best I can do. Start with the R-C-R's, thats the filtering.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Edits: 08/06/16
Got a pic of the back side?
It was just point to point wired and soldered. But sorry, no pic.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
You have no cause to believe you have a problem. You don't know what your trying to do. You assume that bigger is better. Although others have pointed out your error you want to argue without rationalizing what they are saying.
My fear is that some one follows your path and causes harm to themselves.
Edits: 08/06/16
Uncle Mike, Your message is rather odd to me. To keep my answer simple I'll say this. I'm not ASSUMING anything! I put a "small" amount of capacitance across the ac and worked up. I perceive that the larger the capacitance the better it sounds to me. This is personal experience NOT assumption. Over and Over again , from different sources I get that there is no risk of shock, from the info on the net and a personal conversation with an electronic engineer. The incredibly low risk of fire exists with almost anything, it could be put in a metal box... With wire and active devices in a PS and bi polar output devices in amps, bigger IS better based on what I perceive from direct experience , this is NOT ASSUMPTION. Please explain the risk. Once again one should know about a charge on the capacitors and not touch the electrode when charged up. Of course. T
You mean after they catch fire?
Cute, Is there no risk from X or Y type ac caps catching fire? Looks like the answer is no. When was the last time anyone had a cap flame up when used as intended. I'm not exactly recommending putting gasoline soaked paper near caps with a near zero chance of flaming up. They can be placed in a metal box from a electrical supply house. Little air, designed not to burn. I now see an X type AC safety capacitor of a 10uf value from Vishay.
Edits: 08/05/16 08/06/16
Sorry.
What Lew, You think I'm some sycophantic dog on Duster's leash to be lead about on a chain?
Edits: 08/06/16
It's clear that your motivation comes from within.
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