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In Reply to: RE: Suppressing grunge on speaker links posted by antigrunge on August 19, 2012 at 13:07:56
I'm just happy that I have no grunge or layers of dirt on my speaker cables so I don't have to buy any of this complete nonsense! I find the articulation of individual instruments in an orchestra just fine in my system and have no need for increased speed and attack. I don't need any "bandaids" to make it sound good. If your system sounds like crap without $5000 worth of magic bullets then you need to start from scratch with an entire new system.
Follow Ups:
Well your speaker wire does act as an antenna for RFI and EMI and suppressing that with a filter makes a nice difference in most every system I've tried it on regardless of price. Physical dirt or grunge is not the issue. Suppressing or filtering that higher frequency info that rides along the wire allows the amp and speakers to better and more efficiently use that wire as a power transfer medium.I don't know any system that would not benefit from such treatment.
It's clear to see where you stand on some things, it's not clear if you know why these kinds of problems exist and how to remedy them. Also there are DIY posts and sites where they can be made for tens of dollars but you went to the extreme at $5K. By the way I saw the Bybees he mentioned at Tweekgeek for $740 so you were only off by four thousand three hundred dollars. You have added to Internet misinformation. Good on you!~
Live in the means, its often better.
ET
Edits: 08/20/12
N/T
.
The point I was trying to make is that contrary to Palustris' world in perfect harmony there is a lot of stuff happening betwen amp and speaker,; my eperience is that the tweaks mentioned are additive rather than substituting for each other. If some know-it-alls don't want to know, that's just fine, too.
there are many who never realize that the sound they are getting can be significantly improved. Everyone is an expert at their own taste, after all.
Not familiar with all the tweaks you mention but am very familiar with the Bybee products: they are based on solid scientific principles.Stu
Edits: 08/20/12
"Bybee products: they are based on solid scientific principles"
Actually they are based on solid psychological principles: if you create enough doubt in the mind of the gullible, you can separate them from their money.
I have worked with jack bybe for abput a decade, and have found his products while having limitations, work well when used in specific area.
Again if you understand the principles involved and while I do admit jack does not reveal much application wise, if you gain an understanding of the principles involved it can be extremely beneficial.
Of course, if you'ralready happy with your system, why bother reading thsi asylum.
Stu
OK we know where you stand on Bybee now more than ever! Good for you! You seemed to lump them in with every other tweak that might help a system in your original reply. Believe me, whatever gear you have in an hour I could tweak it and make it sound better to everyone, even you-period!
ET
The problem with tweaks, different wires and their differing topologies, anything and everything we do to our systems DOES SOMETHING!
Changing where a planted flower pot is in your listening room will change the sound; buying/replacing a piece of furniture in your listening room makes a difference. EVERYTHING makes a difference. What is difficult is realizing whether the change is a positive move or a negative one.
If you can separate sounds, are deeply aware of the differences of one instrument from another, whether it is the drum, cymbal or sticks (for example), listen very closely and you MAY hear a difference...if the change is within the frequencies you listen FOR.
If one knows their system/room well, then it is easy to hear those differences.
It may well be the tweak/wire/even component will affect a large portion of the musical spectrum, or as stated, just a small segment thereof.
Most of the wire guys were employed by the US government to design wire that was silent...i.e., how do I transmit a signal from the front of a submarine to the rear without any interference or an enemy's detection systems?
That's hogwash and snake oil?
Take (sadly, I know Awe-d-o-phile can't make them at this time) the footers Earl makes...put some sorbotane under a turntable; put spikes under a turntable, any support you wish, and then listen to that turntable with the footers.
If you don't hear a positive difference I'll give you your choice of "Sammy Davis Jr. sings Slovakian favorites", or "Edgar Allen Poe moans from beneath".
Both very collectible LPs. CDs vailable from "Never been made" CD company.
But seriously, if you state you hear no difference, you're either lying or had better go see an ENT. OR perhaps, you haven't learned how to listen...no crime in that, simply that one has no argumentative stance.
Wire topologies reveal different aspects of sound in reaction with impedance and (more "deeply" ) the topologies of the equipment itself.
Everything makes a difference...sally forth and listen CAREFULLY! Keep in mind what your system sounded like pre-tweak.
******************************
Music. Window or mirror?
Hey, Mike, you mentioned changing the location of a planted flower pot will change the sound. From your experience what is the best location for a planted flower pot and what do you think the best sounding flower is?
Sincerely, Geoff Kait
I was at a home where the audio enthusiast had (almost literally) tons of tweaks...Marigo dots, etc.
His soundstage (I don't recall the recrdig) was so lifelikeit was eerie, unbelievable. He had a medium sized pot of dried flowers on the left side of the room. I asked him to take it outside to see if the soundstage shifted at all.
It did.
My system images quite well, but that system put mine to shame in that department (I feel mine is more musical). I don't think most systems would be as revealing as that one...but it proved to me what I'd always felt...EVERYTHING is audible, Everything makes a difference.
Maybe small, maybe large.
******************************
Music. Window or mirror?
Even if you can reliably ascertain whether a change is positive or negative you may be still in difficulty. It is possible that changing from "A" to "B" is an improvement, changing from "B" to "C" is an improvement, and that changing from "C" back to "A" is also improvement. Should this happen you would be stuck in a loop.
This possibility may seem illogical, but it comes from comparing multidimensional preferences. A simple example is the game of Rock, Scissors, and Paper.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
"...it comes from comparing multidimensional preferences"
Yes, so the best thing is to turn to human experience as conveyed by adages such as "good cookin' lasts".
We just need better audio adages!
Rick
If a person is wise, they try one thing and only one thing to evaluate.
That still doesn't guard against the next tweak reversing/improving things, but it lessens the chance of what you've done to NOT be discernible.
No one ever accused me of being wise, however.
******************************
Music. Window or mirror?
Unfortunately tweaking often is n iterative process and one of sequentially addressing issues that become apparent as others get resolved, I was trying to offer a synopsis of my own journey in addressing RFI/EMI interference on the speaker cables and the return signal to the amp in the OP. I would be quite interested in other ways of dealing with this. By way of reference I had previously tried Ben Duncan's Pure Henrys on both + and - as well as basic Bybee Purifiers with lesser benefits than the solution outlined in the OP. Interestingly using Helix-shaped or otherwise insulated speaker cables tends to 'dull' the sound both dynamically and frequency-wise.
Lest you redefine the laws of logic , 'A', 'B' and 'C' in your assertion have to be defined as multifactorial compromises, each. If you then start looping, I suggest to try 'D' .
"Lest you redefine the laws of logic , 'A', 'B' and 'C' in your assertion have to be defined as multifactorial compromises, each. If you then start looping, I suggest to try 'D'."
There is nothing illogical here. Transitivity is not an axiom, rather it is a postulate, one of the defining characteristics of a partial order. The specific example is not a partial order. There are no directed cycles in a partial order. Human preference is not a partial order.
The axioms of equality do not apply to auditory perception, and this can be an even greater problem. Perceptually, A = B for a listener if the two sounds can not be discriminated. It is possible that A = B and B = C and yet A not= C. A simple example would be a listener who could discriminate a 1 dB difference in volume, but fail to discriminate a 0.5 dB difference. Here B would be 0.5 dB louder than A and C would be 1.0 dB louder than A. The implications for good sound are alarming, as a series of improvements to individual components in a system might be rejected as irrelevant while there could have been a significant improvement if all the possible improvements had been chosen.
As a general principle if one is stuck at a local optimum, then one may be able to find a better global optimum by jumping away from the local optimum, but this can be a difficult process due to exponential explosion of the possibilities. Non-linear systems (the real world) are not "logical". Wishing does not make it so.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Seems to me that if we can agree that 'auditory perception' qualifies as a 'multifactorial compromise' the two of us are in perfect harmony...
No doubt about the multifactorial. Look at the vocabulary used to describe sound and any product review in the audio press. As to compromise, well, all of life involves compromises. :-)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
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