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In Reply to: RE: Query to Jon Refined posted by Jon Risch on June 19, 2012 at 21:23:34
Thanks, Jon. I'll definitely apply your thoughts and logic on the SQ&E corner traps issues.
The carpeting quest is becoming really depressing, however. And while I know you previously admonished me that carpeting was not your audio forte, any help here would be appreciated.
Here in New Zealand, any substantial, nicely plush nylon static-free carpet will cost around $7k to $8k, installed with 11mm underlay (padding.) A moderately plush nylon has been wrangled down to $5500, same particulars. Thin/short/tough cut-pile nylon can be had for around $3400-$3800, same particulars, but it really is low-profile and pretty tight to the touch, and not much there. Only the ridiculously expensive stuff seems nicely absorbent, plush and plentiful. Ouch!
Having re-read your original answer a number of times, and done many Google searches, for sonics in a Music Room it all really boils down to how thick the carpet and padding are, and is the carpet static-free. However, in NZ, for some reason it is very, very hard to find any green colored carpets, except in wool (seriously here; I am not joking. Kiwis, apparently, are damned sick of seeing green all around them, and want anything but in their lounges and homes, generally speaking.) And wool carpets here are thin, period. Like the $3400-$3800 nylons mentioned above (although the wools are somewhat dearer, about $4200-4500, same particulars.)
I adore green, and especially green carpet, and find it the most relaxing color imaginable. The only really nice greens (unfortunately) are in the wool carpets, and a few decent greens in the super-expensive American nylons (but not as lovely as the colors available in wool; apparently wools take the dyes much better than nylons do.)
And so here is my query:
If I lay down a pair of nice long strips of thick Sonex (3" H x 16" W x 6-8' L) on the carpet between the speakers and my listening seat, do you think I could maybe get away with a thinner wool carpet (which aren't static-prone, I understand), without having to spring for the super big-buck thick-as-hell nylons? As previously stated, the wools are thin, like the $3400-$3800 nylons, but the colors are simply wonderful! Deep, restful greens in rich tones. Very lovely. Same cut-pile style, same really thin, low profile as the el cheapo nylons. Just a little more expensive, but spectacular colors. Way deeper, richer colors even than the mega-buck nylons (but a few of the expensive American nylons are decent, too.)
If you think it would be significantly deleterious sonically to go with the low profile, low weight carpets, even with the Sonex strips laid down, I'll bite the bullet. But before I do, I'd like to ask what frequency range do you believe would be most effected by a room laid with shorter, less weighty (most likely wool) carpet, versus tall plush cushiony (nylon) carpet?
(I listen exclusively to digital sources, BTW, however that impacts the sonic equation.)
A million thanks, Jon. These are fairly expensive decisions I'll have to live with a LONG time, both visually and sonically, and thus my trepidation and request for any guidance you can afford. I fully understand you don't consider yourself the AA carpet maven, but any input is sorely welcomed and greatly appreciated. Again, many thanks!
Cheers,
WS
Follow Ups:
Strictly from an acoustics standpoint, a relatively thin carpet and a decent thickness pad (not super thick, not super thin) should be fine.
The thickest deepest plush carpet and the thickest most sound absorbent pad together will really only significantly affect frequencies above about 5-6 kHz, with some effect down to about 2-3 kHz, depending on the particulars. Typical middle-of-the-road carpet and pad would likely double those frequencies.
Yes, use of Sonex strips (or better yet, a simple rectangle placed at the first reflection point) will do much more than the very best carpet/pad combo.
Keep in mind that you can always put down a throw rug or a plush rug or "Persian rug" at those locations later if the sound is too bright and you have too much "floor flutter", and the Sonex is not acceptable long term.
What about your ceiling? That will have an effect too, and will partially determine what you can get away with on the floor.
One more thing to ponder, is that I have heard some rooms with hardwood floors (albeit with a rug in line with each speaker) sound pretty good sonically, as there was enough attention to detail everywhere else.
However, concrete or other hard dense floors are not quite as forgiving as a hardwood floor over the typical wooden house floor framing.
Good luck on your project, and I hope the room turns out wonderful sonically.
Jon Risch
Thanks, Jon, for the detailed advice.
Regarding the ceiling, it will be all 5/8" spruce interlocking (dove-tailed) panel-boards, stained and then screwed into place, mounted on 5/8" drywall gypsum board. The gyp board will be a softer variety, and will be the same type we will employ on the walls, as well.
Something I have instructed my builder to do, is to employ a type of damping foam strip on top of all studs (between the studs and the drywall) so as to absorb as much energy into the walls as is possible, toning down the drumhead effect as much we can. The same will occur with the spruce ceiling. The sealing glues for the edges of the drywall intersections on all walls will employ a material that is used for sound damping that does not dry hard and rigid, but somewhat pliable to, once again, absorb as much energy as possible.
Thank you for the kind wishes about the ultimate sonic character and performance of the listening environment. Of course, we are all keenly aware of the 'best laid plans' going awry, but I am hopeful things will turn out sonically decent. One never knows, though, until that first burst of music issues forth, and until then, one can only cross one's fingers and hope long and hard that things turn out fine.
Thank you so very much for all your kind and thoughtful assistance, Jon. Your advisements will guide me and my builder, are invaluable to us, and again, are so very much appreciated that words cannot do justice to our feelings of gratitude for your time and efforts!
Cheers,
WS
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