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Well the materials finally came and I had a chance to put some of the OC703 in various places. It made a big difference in soundstage and overall ease of listening. I have 12 pieces of 2'x4' sound damping material, think I will be using 6 for my upstairs listening room and maybe around 3 for downstairs. 3 Done 6 more to go.
Total cost for all the materials is about $200, thats enough to make 12 2'x4' panels.
When I am done I want 2 brown panels behind the speakers and 2 beige on each side wall.
Before
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Follow Ups:
You upstairs room is almost identical to mine, 'cept mine is a wee bit wider and longer.
My new room, which is above my garage, is very lively and echoic, so I need treatments asap. Still have to finish my speaker project first....
I have thought about treating the window. Mine has double the width of yours. I am looking at making a temporary hanging system that will allow me to remove after my listening sessions....
Any ways, great job...
-chris
Chris, If ever you find an effective window treatment please post your findings. My room sounds great but… always a but… I have a 30” x 70” window on the long side and am curious how it effects the room.
I am lucky that the way my room is now it sounds great.
I will let you know what I find effective.
Was at a thrift that gets brand new reams of fabric of all types for really cheap (really do not know what fabric cost), at a $1 yard. Seems like a good deal. So I bought about 5 yards now and will have to get my wood for the frames and such.
I have to paint first, so I am taking my time. I will post my results.
The thread below about the liner seems like it would be nice, just need to find a source though, have to get to googling.
Later,
-chris
I had a similar sized window in one of my listening rooms. Dale Pitcher of Intuitive Audio who designs some of the best speakers out there said that it would most likely affect bass response under 100 hz and cause some high frequency reflections. His recommended solution to me was to use a thick set of natural fiber (cotton or wool) curtains. The set I used was cotton and also included a sound proofing/light blocking backing (the type used in hotel rooms). Worked fine for me a looked very nice as well. Not cheap though.
Noise absorbing curtain liners are very useful. I've got such a liner behind curtains covering 2 windows in my room, a curtain spread around 9 or 10' wide and running floor to almost ceiling, so there's a fair sized area involved. Curtains on their own helped but adding the liner behind the curtains made a very audible improvement. As you say, they're not cheap but as far as acoustic treatment goes they're also not outrageously expensive.
David Aiken
I am in the States....
Thanks
-chris
And I'm in Australia so my source won't work for you.
Go to a curtain store and ask them about noise absorbing liners. They should be able to give you some details.
Alternatively search the main US curtain fabric firms websites for details.
The linings in my room are a fabric called "bumph".
David Aiken
Been searching, found some at large store chain here in the states,, but did not say anything about for use in sound or noise blocking, nor did the reviews have any mention of it....
Still looking....I'll stumble across it eventually.
Thanks,
-chris
Relatively speaking room treatments are probably the cheapest improvement someone can do in audio...imo. Although most often its either the last and the most over looked.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Paint & treatments first, while I it is a "fresh" room. Then will worry about placement and such, but I all ready have most figured out now. Just have to get this done before school starts back up. I have a week and a day.
This room is going to be primarily a listening room and with the option of a vintage Altec 604 (I have 2 atm , have a lead on a cheap 3rd) equipped modest home theater. Looking at adding a infinite baffle sub-woofers later as well. I am waiting for the led projectors to get cheaper.....Till then I will use a plasma or a lcd screen.
Again Dynaudio, good looking room you have there.
-chris
Its good that you have a clean slate to work with, if you are using it for HT you may have a to approach it a bit differently than a 2 ch. set up.
How big is your room?
And what type of speakers will you be using?
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
21'x17x6'-8' with the last dim being like yours with the ceiling slanting down.....
It will be set-up initially with my Altec 604K's in 620A cabs, being fed by a pair of Bottlehead 2A3 paramour's, with a passive-pre being fed with a sacd player, Ipod and eventually a mini-mac with an dac (been ripping all my music with uncompressed wavs)..... the last 2 are in the works as I speak, they will be a couple of months away.....
I just want some sounds in their before the wife gets any bright ideas!!!
Later,
-chris
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Looks good, but…
It looks like you have the ones on the front wall directly behind the speakers. The actual first reflection points on that wall will be a bit more towards the centre of the room rather than right behind the speakers so you may get better results if you move them so their inner edges are right up against the sides of the window. I think the side wall panels should also be a little closer to you, it's hard to judge from the photo because it's very difficult to estimate angles. If you can get someone to hold a mirror at the midpoint of the front of the panel, you should be able to see the speaker's tweeter in the mirror when you're sitting at the listening position.
Also, you'll make them more effective if you space them out from the wall around 4" so there's an air space behind them. That will not only allow them to absorb more but also help them to work down to a slightly lower frequency which may well be an even greater benefit.
The most important thing, however, is something you left out. How do things sound with them?
David Aiken
Thank you for your suggestions....I will have to play with the positioning and perhaps even add a couple of more, I am thinking of the ceiling area.
After playing around with the positions I have moved the back panels to the corners actually...much improved soundstage and evenness in the sound. The side panels are actually in line with the first order reflections at the 2/3 mark going away from the speaker.
So far today I made 5 panels, I have enough materials to make 12 total.
Also I have a question about the blinds....won't they act as a diffuser of sound?
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Edits: 05/07/09
In the corners, the back panels may do a little better at lower frequencies. Try placing them at 45 degrees across the corner, creating an air space behind. If you find moving them to the corners is better, I think you will find the angled placement better again.
The blinds won't really act as a diffuser. They may reflect higher frequencies at a slightly different angle but they aren't diffusing the reflection, just reflecting it normally at a different angle because the blades of the blind aren't parallel to the wall but angled. Experiment with different opening angles of the blinds and see if you prefer one position to another. They may be less reflective of high frequencies than the glass of the windows is, and that may help a little also.
Glad to hear the panels are helping.
David Aiken
Thanks again David, this is my latest adjustment...think I will let it stay like this for awhile so I can do some listening.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
I think it's looking good.
clio09 suggests covering the blinds with another panel. I think you will have a first reflection point on the wall near to the window or actually on the window and you would probably benefit from treating it, but I would not want to lose all of the light from the windows. I think a second panel there, both on stands and raised so that the top of each panel is just above the top of each speaker, and positioned to cover the first reflection points would deal with the first reflection which will be the stongest and most troublesome one while leaving most of the window unobscured so that you get the light.
Acoustic treatment and tailoring the sound to your preferences is fine but my feeling is that I am more relaxed in a room I feel comfortable in and that the greater level of relaxation translates into a better listening experience. I would not like to lose the natural light. If the window area is still a problem with the first reflection points treated as I've just suggested, I'd prefer to swap the blinds for curtains, choosing a material which is translucent enough to still allow some light while thick enough to absorb enough of the high frequencies to take the brightness off the window reflection. I think, however, that just ensuring the first reflection points are covered may well be sufficient.
David Aiken
They would reflect nothing but would be open wells.
Not really open wells because the rear of the blades isn't in contact with the window itself. It's more of a grating and you may get some diffraction on both sides as sound exits the blinds in each direction but I don't think the effect will be great. I wonder whether the sound will be better as you suggest, or with the blinds closed or angled and providing a surface with a different reflectivity than the glass of the windows themselves.
It's worth trying and running with the approach that is preferred but I suspect any difference will be more from the difference in reflectivity than from the diffraction.
David Aiken
I was thinking more angled as to reflect the sound in another direction. I am also considering either a shear curtain or fabric blinds. But as it stands the panels themselves made a huge improvement. I'm pretty satisfied with things the way they are...newness.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
a
I would take the panel behind the speaker and place the bottom edge so it is flush with the window sill. Then make another panel and place it right above, doubling up the space. You lose some light coming into the room, but gain some benefit by reducing the effect of the blinds. I have a similar situation and found this to work well.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
They look nice. Very similar to "Echo Busters" panels. I don't know what you have on the rear wall, but you might benefit from a combination of "reflective/absorption" sound treatment. I've used clear, wide packing tape, equally spaced on the the foam of the rears, to achieve a 50/50 ratio. It made a big improvement in my small room. BTW, did you dye the neutral colored cloth? I think a BOM for each panel would be helpful to others wanting to construct them. Nice job!
Ed M.
"Where I'm from, not's where I'm from, anymore" - "Zoysia" The Bottle Rockets
2 Cases of Owens Corning 703 sound insulation - 6 panels in each case - some local hardware store $120
1 1/2" Dry Wall Screws - Home Depot $3-4 per box
20 yards of Burlap Fabric - Joann Fabric $2.99/yd
20 - 1"x3"x8' lumber $0.94 each Home Depot
Staple Gun with 1/2" staples
Total Cost around $200 [I used a coupon at the fabric store]
Just make your frames to fit the insulation inside, cut your fabric and staple. Done deal.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
If anyone decides to build these I would suggest the use of Adhesive spray on the fabric. This would help with positioning on the panel as well as holding the material close against the frame [no bulges].Also you should have the wood cut at Home Depot, I had them cut half of it to 4' lengths and then cut pieces to 27", the 27" accounts for the 2' width of the panel plus 1 1/2" of wood on each side. Make sure to drill pilot holes in the wood so it won't split.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Edits: 05/08/09
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