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I've been on a quest to find the best tube amp I can find under $4000. I've been considering a few like Aronov and Rogue and some others. One that keeps coming back to me is the Atma-Sphere M60 but something troubles me about them. I have hardly ever seen any posts regarding these amps. I thought owners of these amps were fanatical and I'd expect to see more discussion of them around here. Kind of like Maggie owners.
I have my suspicions why this is and I'd like to hear what others think.
I keep hearing about how musical these amps are. They are also supposed to be also extremely transparent and fast. The musical part sounds like a description used for most tube amps but the last two are not. Is this what it boils down to? Do most tube lovers rate transparency and speed lower than musicality, pace, euponic mids and all the typical descriptors?
I'd like to know why people love tube amps and how they feel about OTL amps including what they don't like about them. The reason I ask all this is I can't here an OTL before I buy one and when I buy one I don't expect to get the opportunity to return it. Truthfully, I am afraid that an OTL won't have that emotional experience that I desire.
Bryan, I almost bought the Atma-sphere M60. I've read too often about tweaking this amp, it has very high heat output, I also wanted to biamp. The sound is very good and this I liked a lot. I also didn't like the fact of having a piece without the posiablity of returning it. I just kept looking for some thing else. I wanted an amp with at least simularly good sound with fewer tube (less heat output) and something that was a done deal and needed no tweaks or N.O.S. tubes. I found bought and have been enjoying my 3 SAS AUDIO LABS SE 4.6 amps for several months now. check out thier site. http://www.sasaudiolabs.com
They have a 30 day return policy.
Thanks for the suggestion. Looks interesting but I require more power than a low wattage SET amp.
Yes, I know the M60 requires some hands on tweaking and runs hot and requires careful speaker matching. None of that is really a problem for me except tube swapping could prove to be costly. 16 tubes! Shhhheeezzzzz. But, it should be fun and I'd want to do it one day when I get bored with the stock tubes.
Well, the M60's do use many tubes. 16 to be exact. However they are not expensive tubes and the life of the 8 6AS7/4 6SN7s should be measured in thousands of hours easily. Do remember that swapping tubes in an OTL can change the sound drastically.
BRYAN, YOU WILL MOST LIKELY ENJOY THIS AMP, BUT IT DOES RUN HOT. GREAT FOR THE COLD WINTER MONTHS!
> > > something that
was a done deal and needed no tweaks or N.O.S. tubes. < < <
Most tubed amps are like that-one doesn't HAVE to tweak or tube swap.
Just because it doesn't NEED tweeks or NOS tubes, doesn't mean it can't benifit from it. Theres a good chance you can drastically improve the sound for very little money.
Jack
Are you like an audiophile? Ummm...like you like ummm tweek and tweek and talk of these NOS tubes. Why not just save money and buy Chinese tubes? HEEHEEHEE......
Oh, NOS tubes. Not all better new production tubes but many do......
OK I need more sleep-thats not a puter trick just spelling backwards.*hangs head in shame* Geeeeeez I gotta get some rest;-)
enjoy,
Jack
The mirror image thing?
FWIW as you know not all NOS tubes are good. But I don't have to lecture YOU on tube swapping:-)
Jack
Sometimes I have to remind myself that not all NOS are good. For instance above someone is using Tungsram 6922's. While they are better than Sovteks and they are cheap also(about $15). They really fall short of any of the Amperex or Siemens that I have used. I have one pair of 73' silver pins laying around in absolutly "mint" boxes with papers though. Thats probaly the only reason why I have kept them.
The 6EM7's really messed me up. As differences seemed small. However they were not. Though all sounded good. As it was really a personal taste. I noted that the older GE's had good clean treble and tight bass. While the 70's RCA's for instance had the absolute best midrange but were rolled off on the bottom end.........
Chinese tubes......well I stay away from these. I have never had any luck with them not only in regards to reliability but sound wise also. Not worth the money even if they are absolutly the cheapest. Also new output tubes are making strides and are cost effective. As the new WE300B isn't as close to the old WE300B that everyone thinks. Yet, it sounds magical. Original NOS WE300B's are rare and finding a matched pair is like winning lotto. Also they are expensive brother. The make the new ones look cheap.
Another note on NOS. One needs to look for the truth here also. As some tubes are overhyped and the market price reflects this. One needs to do a little research before buying any NOS tube(s). As not only will this help in saving money but it will also help weed out tubes that are duds or aren't as good as other ones. Though in the end the only way to tell which tube is right for you is to actually try them. I think old boy above should try some new Sventlana EL34's or maybe some NOS Siemens. The Siemens won't have as much bass as the Svent but they are a very lush sounding EL34.
Also if one has a limited budget one could buy used. Well, used that test good. This allows one to taste at rock bottom prices. Then if you like them you could find them new. This allows little money to buy a wide variety. Then save a little cash for buying the ones you like....NOS. Or you could just do as you and I. Buying many and hording the good ones. Nothing wrong with having a little collection.
There are alot of bad NOS tubes out there-the JAN phillips 12AX7s that came with the EAR phono for example-smooth but rolled of terribly-rather dull sounding. The 6EM7s are the most INCONSISTANT tubes I've ever come across. The old RCAs seem to be the best overall IMO, but they changed then later, and sound cooler. The older(?) GEs with the black base and black plates is a very close second-actually looks just like the RCAs. AES said they had 100's of the old RCas but it turned out they didn't I got all they had-5. They have lots of the 6EM7/6EA7s coin base etc, but not the older ones.:-(
Current production output tubers seem to be OK, but as you say, the NOS WEs are still considered better(and going for almost $1000 each!) I've been hording various 6SN7s and 5692s whenever I can find good ones. FWIW, I hear big differences between vintages of octal based tubes 5 years apart.
Here's an interesting tidbit. last week I bought a pair of 2A3s-sylvania rebranded as Philco from one vendor, and a pair of RCA grey plates rebranded as sylvania from another vendor. Both sets are identical, down to the holes in the mica. I believe both are RCA grey plate.
Enjoy,
Jack
> > > Here's an interesting tidbit. last week I bought a pair of 2A3s-sylvania rebranded as Philco from one vendor, and a pair of RCA grey plates rebranded as sylvania from another vendor. Both sets are identical, down to the holes in the mica. I believe both are RCA grey plate. < < <
Doesn't that tick you off? I mean when you think that you have found a new brand/different tube. Only to find it is identical to something you already have. Oh, except for the label and box! I'm afraid that the box and label don't add to sound quality at all. Though some boxes look pretty darn cool. While others look as if they have been to hell and back....hey is that tube really new in that ole' box you sometimes have to think.
I was surprised to say the least, since the supplier is well respected, and one I use periodically(actually both vendors) one of them is wrong. I don't mind too much, since I really like the tubes-guess I have a back-up set now-not a bad thing. You never know when the 2A3 supply will dry up. It does remind you that we are at the mercy of the suppliers.
enjoy,
Jack
WRONG JACK !
NONE OF THE N.O.S.'s I TRIED IMPROVED THE SOUND, THEY DID HOWEVER EQUAL IT. IN QUALITY.
While current output tubes are Ok, the sovtek small signal tubes absolutely suck, umless one prefers bright, hard, glarey, grainy, etched sound.
enjoy,
Jack
.....which NOS 12AX7's and EL34's did you try? The new Sovtek EL34 output tube is a pretty good EL34. A lot of people actually love it. The Sovtek signal tubes on the other hand leave a lot to be desired for most though.
Buy a pair of used Atma-Sphere 50 watt monoblocks.If you like them keep them or upgrade them.If you don't like them you can resell them and recover most of your investment.If you are good at finding surplus parts it is possible to build a pair of the 100 watt monos for about one sixth the retail price.A set of NOS outputs for a stereo pair cost me $80(including postage).
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