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In Reply to: RE: experience with tube vendors posted by bcowen on September 02, 2016 at 04:48:43
That's what I thought re buying from eBay sellers. A seller's feedback is of limited use, if any, when it comes to determining quality of product and/or post-sale commitment.I reviewed each of the suggested vendors' websites. Upscale Audio, RAM Labs, Vintage Tube Services, Brent Jessee, and McShane are transparent in connection with not only who they are, what they know, what they offer, and how they test, but provide detailed information should one need to reach them directly by telephone or mail. IOW, legitimate dealers.
On the other hand, Tubemonger.com is troublesome. No contact information, nothing about qualifications, nothing about test procedures, vague and unenforceable "Terms and Conditions". I emailed them and got a response that indicated that they had no idea about the tube market. I am deeply suspicious of any company that holds itself out as a dealer in these kinds of products but refuses to identify who they are, where they are based, what their source of product is, how they test, etc. Their's is one of those claims that start and end with, "Trust Me/Us". Someone previously mentioned that a company's "support" of this website Forum implied legitimacy and integrity but that opinion would no doubt change rapidly after getting burned. I see that Tubemonger.com is an eBay seller as well, again with no storefront contact information provided.
Thanks for the education folks. I'll stick with the aforementioned Upscale Audio, RAM Labs, Vintage Tube Services, Brent Jessee, and McShane. I work way too hard for my money to be taking "chances" on other (and especially on-line only) dealers with very well-contrived marketing schemes.
Edits: 09/02/16 09/02/16 09/02/16Follow Ups:
I understand how you reached your conclusion on Tubemonger, but I'm not sure that you are correct based on my multiple experiences with him and those of some friends.
The tubes have always been as claimed, packaged far better than any other vendor I've purchased from, including most of those you feel were reputable; and this is not to say anything was remotely wrong with the others. His was just better.
I've talked with him on the phone and via email about particular tubes I was considering. He was willing to allow returns on certain tubes, but not on others -- all noted in advance.
Testing methodology was indicated on his website, last I looked. Different testers will yield different results and testers tend to drift over time, so what does this really tell you other than it was done.
Mistrust because he also sells on EBay is guilt by association. At least one of the other "reputable" dealers you list also sell there.
And his tube picture library. Who else has anything else so well organized, freely available, and extensive?
A tube that sounds great in one system is no so good in another, as you will soon enough see. No connection to him other than as a purchaser, btw.
Edits: 10/05/16
I didn't have problems with Tube Monger, but most of what he carried are what I call, medium market tubes like Tungsram. The problem is that he made his inventory seem larger by slicing and dicing his inventory every which way to Sunday. I could never understand the way he chopped up the same tube inventory. So I would buy the least expensive tubes barring the complete triode mismatches or the test low tubes. I was pretty happy with what I got and have 3 testers. (which are far from reference testers but reassured me.)
One thing he tried, which I give him credit for attempting, was to take tubes that were ,for instance a twin triode with electrical parameters equal to a 12AX7 (where true NOS desirable 12AX7s haven't existed commercially for at least 2 decades) These equivalent tubes had incompatible pinouts. So he built adapters into the tube base so the pin out was functional. The only problem that this was very labor intensive and made these unknown 12AX7 equivalents expensive. I wouldn't even buy one just to see, too expensive and who would buy it from you if you if you had to sell, so it failed as far as I know.
To his credit early on he had a good number of 5751s and as I said tubes I would grade as sub premium.
Finally he did put together a very good atlas of tube photos to use for reference.
If you are referring to CV4035 tubes, your following information is incorrect.
"These equivalent tubes had incompatible pinouts. So he built adapters into the tube base so the pin out was functional"
CV4035 is a higher grade/reliability ECC83/12AX7 - only difference being these have flying leads instead of normal pins. Otherwise pin positions are the same. Flying leads tubes were designed to be soldered directly on the circuit board.
http://www.tubecollector.org/cv4035.htm
Our adapter makes this flying leads tube look and work like a normal tube with pins. Connections are straight through.
Same goes for other flying leads tubes like CV4033 (12AT7), CV4034 (12AU7), CV4109 (E188CC) and CV4001 (6X4WA, CV4005) and CV4086 (EF86).
I said in my post that they are electrical equivalents to the 12AX7 which is not, saying near equivalent. My only mistake appears to be that the pin out is the same. The difference is only a matter of "flying Leads" vs the usual pins.
I am sorry for not noting structural changes in RFT tubes of the same type, and even of possibly the same year of construction. I am usually aware of structural differences but in those instances I must have missed it . I apologize, not noting that.
As if anyone actually cares about my thinking on those RFT tubes. I have no endorsement contracts but would be happy to negotiate one.
Seriously have the flying lead tubes been selling and are they still converted to pin type tubes?
ATTENTION MODS: Feel free to delete this reply if outside the rules.
"Seriously have the flying lead tubes been selling and are they still converted to pin type tubes?"
Our goal was to create an adapter that would make these tubes look, feel and usable like a normal tube. User should not feel any difference. It was long and expensive process to create the final version. Trick was to find an outfit that could create straight holes through normal tube sized pins for the flying leads. This is being done by an OEM outfit that makes watch band parts (pistons) for swiss watches.
Brimar CV4033 (12AU7) and CV4034 (12AT7) outsell all others combined in the respective categories. For these we have lifetime supplies. Was easy transition for Brimar 13D5 and Brimar 6060 fans.
Brimar CV4035 (12AX7) is tied up with Tungsram ECC83.
Mullard CV4035 (12AX7) - no more.
Mullatd CV4109 (E188CC) - small qty left
Genalex GEC CV4001 (6X4WA) sold out at the fastest rate as the qty was limited.
Just to point out. Jim, and others, hangs around here all the time. And is a frequent contributor to various forums. So it seems he has nothing to hide from.
Correct, and I reviewed his vending in a positive light i.e. Jim McShane at McShane Design (mcshanedesign.net). As I noted previously, his operation is transparent with direct contact information provided. Because he uses his name for his business, it doesn't get any more transparent than that. I like also that he specifies when his website/stock gets updated (most recently on 8/8/16).
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