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As I wander into the wonderful world of tube rolling, I am wondering about the experiences good or bad others have had with various US or UK-based tube vendors? I had a very interesting email exchange earlier today with one such "vendor" which left me feeling as though that one was capable of taking advantage and financially exploiting our emotional attachment to this hobby. I submitted an inquiry with the California (and Texas) states Attorneys General curious to learn if any complaints have been filed against it. I don't want to spend the >$500 I am planning on, only to find out after-the-fact that I've been either defrauded with counterfeit merchandise or merchandise that did not meet the quality as advertised. I have read that tube purchasers can be especially vulnerable to such practices.
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I would like to add my voice to those who have had nothing but exceptional service from Jim McShane. My only affiliation is that of a happy customer.
www.vacuumtubes.net are usually cheaper than ebay & others. Specify NOS as they started to sell some used. They have the largest supply of tubes in the world, but do not have exotic tubes such as Cca, etc.
Go to the Facebook group VTubeAudio's Tube Rolling Group.
Good guy, good vendor runs that group... Rodney. He is a jewel. There are several other good sellers there, too. The best I have experience with is David Hollander out of Arizona. Recently purchased some excellent early 50's CBS Hytron Black Plate 12AX7, and several RCA 12AX7 Black Plates from him.
Excellent tubes.
Andrew
I can only echo what has already been said.
But I would like to add that Jim has never "over sold" me and he usually has steered me back into "sanity". Jim's helped prevent me from making some pretty $illy decisions.
I've offered to pay Jim by the email for Psychological audio counseling therapy.
You are very smart to do the research and look for recommendations. I used to buy a lot of tubes through Ebay with pretty good success, but that was 15 years ago. Today, I wouldn't buy a tube on Ebay if it was the last tube available on the planet unless I already knew the seller. Too many fakes, superficial (or nonexistent) testing, and too many scam artists. Total crapshoot, and while you may get lucky and snag a good deal, chances are higher that you won't. Unfortunately, there is a growing pool of web vendors that can be described the same way.
My short list of vendors I've purchased from with wholly positive results:
Upscale Audio (http://www.upscaleaudio.com): Ditto what Billy said.
RAM Labs (http://ramlabs-musicreference.com/): Like Upscale, you pay more but you get what you pay for. Thorough testing and support.
Vintage Tube Services (http://vintagetubeservices.com): kind of a one-man show, but thorough testing and many NOS varieties that are difficult to find.
I've never purchased anything from Jim McShane, but he has tons of universal praise on this forum which wouldn't be the case if he wasn't knowledgeable and trustworthy.
Hope this helps...
That's what I thought re buying from eBay sellers. A seller's feedback is of limited use, if any, when it comes to determining quality of product and/or post-sale commitment.I reviewed each of the suggested vendors' websites. Upscale Audio, RAM Labs, Vintage Tube Services, Brent Jessee, and McShane are transparent in connection with not only who they are, what they know, what they offer, and how they test, but provide detailed information should one need to reach them directly by telephone or mail. IOW, legitimate dealers.
On the other hand, Tubemonger.com is troublesome. No contact information, nothing about qualifications, nothing about test procedures, vague and unenforceable "Terms and Conditions". I emailed them and got a response that indicated that they had no idea about the tube market. I am deeply suspicious of any company that holds itself out as a dealer in these kinds of products but refuses to identify who they are, where they are based, what their source of product is, how they test, etc. Their's is one of those claims that start and end with, "Trust Me/Us". Someone previously mentioned that a company's "support" of this website Forum implied legitimacy and integrity but that opinion would no doubt change rapidly after getting burned. I see that Tubemonger.com is an eBay seller as well, again with no storefront contact information provided.
Thanks for the education folks. I'll stick with the aforementioned Upscale Audio, RAM Labs, Vintage Tube Services, Brent Jessee, and McShane. I work way too hard for my money to be taking "chances" on other (and especially on-line only) dealers with very well-contrived marketing schemes.
Edits: 09/02/16 09/02/16 09/02/16
I understand how you reached your conclusion on Tubemonger, but I'm not sure that you are correct based on my multiple experiences with him and those of some friends.
The tubes have always been as claimed, packaged far better than any other vendor I've purchased from, including most of those you feel were reputable; and this is not to say anything was remotely wrong with the others. His was just better.
I've talked with him on the phone and via email about particular tubes I was considering. He was willing to allow returns on certain tubes, but not on others -- all noted in advance.
Testing methodology was indicated on his website, last I looked. Different testers will yield different results and testers tend to drift over time, so what does this really tell you other than it was done.
Mistrust because he also sells on EBay is guilt by association. At least one of the other "reputable" dealers you list also sell there.
And his tube picture library. Who else has anything else so well organized, freely available, and extensive?
A tube that sounds great in one system is no so good in another, as you will soon enough see. No connection to him other than as a purchaser, btw.
Edits: 10/05/16
I didn't have problems with Tube Monger, but most of what he carried are what I call, medium market tubes like Tungsram. The problem is that he made his inventory seem larger by slicing and dicing his inventory every which way to Sunday. I could never understand the way he chopped up the same tube inventory. So I would buy the least expensive tubes barring the complete triode mismatches or the test low tubes. I was pretty happy with what I got and have 3 testers. (which are far from reference testers but reassured me.)
One thing he tried, which I give him credit for attempting, was to take tubes that were ,for instance a twin triode with electrical parameters equal to a 12AX7 (where true NOS desirable 12AX7s haven't existed commercially for at least 2 decades) These equivalent tubes had incompatible pinouts. So he built adapters into the tube base so the pin out was functional. The only problem that this was very labor intensive and made these unknown 12AX7 equivalents expensive. I wouldn't even buy one just to see, too expensive and who would buy it from you if you if you had to sell, so it failed as far as I know.
To his credit early on he had a good number of 5751s and as I said tubes I would grade as sub premium.
Finally he did put together a very good atlas of tube photos to use for reference.
If you are referring to CV4035 tubes, your following information is incorrect.
"These equivalent tubes had incompatible pinouts. So he built adapters into the tube base so the pin out was functional"
CV4035 is a higher grade/reliability ECC83/12AX7 - only difference being these have flying leads instead of normal pins. Otherwise pin positions are the same. Flying leads tubes were designed to be soldered directly on the circuit board.
http://www.tubecollector.org/cv4035.htm
Our adapter makes this flying leads tube look and work like a normal tube with pins. Connections are straight through.
Same goes for other flying leads tubes like CV4033 (12AT7), CV4034 (12AU7), CV4109 (E188CC) and CV4001 (6X4WA, CV4005) and CV4086 (EF86).
I said in my post that they are electrical equivalents to the 12AX7 which is not, saying near equivalent. My only mistake appears to be that the pin out is the same. The difference is only a matter of "flying Leads" vs the usual pins.
I am sorry for not noting structural changes in RFT tubes of the same type, and even of possibly the same year of construction. I am usually aware of structural differences but in those instances I must have missed it . I apologize, not noting that.
As if anyone actually cares about my thinking on those RFT tubes. I have no endorsement contracts but would be happy to negotiate one.
Seriously have the flying lead tubes been selling and are they still converted to pin type tubes?
ATTENTION MODS: Feel free to delete this reply if outside the rules.
"Seriously have the flying lead tubes been selling and are they still converted to pin type tubes?"
Our goal was to create an adapter that would make these tubes look, feel and usable like a normal tube. User should not feel any difference. It was long and expensive process to create the final version. Trick was to find an outfit that could create straight holes through normal tube sized pins for the flying leads. This is being done by an OEM outfit that makes watch band parts (pistons) for swiss watches.
Brimar CV4033 (12AU7) and CV4034 (12AT7) outsell all others combined in the respective categories. For these we have lifetime supplies. Was easy transition for Brimar 13D5 and Brimar 6060 fans.
Brimar CV4035 (12AX7) is tied up with Tungsram ECC83.
Mullard CV4035 (12AX7) - no more.
Mullatd CV4109 (E188CC) - small qty left
Genalex GEC CV4001 (6X4WA) sold out at the fastest rate as the qty was limited.
Just to point out. Jim, and others, hangs around here all the time. And is a frequent contributor to various forums. So it seems he has nothing to hide from.
Correct, and I reviewed his vending in a positive light i.e. Jim McShane at McShane Design (mcshanedesign.net). As I noted previously, his operation is transparent with direct contact information provided. Because he uses his name for his business, it doesn't get any more transparent than that. I like also that he specifies when his website/stock gets updated (most recently on 8/8/16).
I would like to add Brent Jessee to the list of reputable venders.
Have purchased several NOS tubes from him and I find his advice to be sound and price and selection very good.
Customer service is outstanding. He replaced a Sylvania 6SN7 that went bad and was past the warranty date without even asking.
I have no affiliation with Brent, just a very satisfied customer.
I have mostly bought tubes from Jim McShane. Knows is stuff and totally honest. Check him out
Alan
I've dealt with most of the US tube vendors over the years. For service, price and quality I currently buy from Jim McShane or Tube Depot.
I have purchased tubes from:
Jim McShane - very honest and reliable. You can count on him without a doubt. One of the good guys!
Upscale Audio (Kevin Deal) - Honest and reliable, Kevin often has rare NOS tubes that are tested in his facility and the figures are provided to the buyer. Not inexpensive, but you gotta pay if you wanna play. I won't hesitate to buy from Kevin!
You'll need to beware of some of the tube vendors on e-bay and other similar sites. Unless you're a savvy and experienced tube buyer you'd be advised to approach them warily.
I second both recommendations here. Kevin deals in tubes and in equipment. I bought 2 Ah! TJOEB CD players with alternate vacuum tubes from him at Upscale Audio and the communication and transactions were flawless.
Sim
I would also encorage you to do a bit of home work as you venture into this realm of audiophilia...
Know the parts of the tubes (internal)
NOS - New Old Stock - yes there are Amprex Bugle Boy tubes that have never been removed from their original Packaging, however there are not Thousands of these tubes ...
It is 2016 - most of the tubes that are newly manufactured are being manufactured in either the Former Yugoslavia, Hungary, China or Russia.
Most of the UK, Dutch, German and US manufacturing stopped in the 1970s or before...
Tubes - unused - have an indefinite shelf life.
Tubes can not be repaired...
Have fun
Happy Listening
When vendors post on their websites promises that they "test" tubes, I imagine that the reputable ones provide documentation of those tests so that upon receipt any quality-based sales claims could be independently verified?
Testing is interesting-
if the tester/vendor is using an old Hickok or other commercial tester- they were not equipped with printers to print out the results....
The only Vendor that I am aware of that provides Data is RAM Labs - where they have a computer operated testing platform for the common (Twin Triodes and Power Tubes) to run through a series of tests and record the data. RAM then uses that data to grade and match tubes.
So your request is reasonable- but not many people do it-
Happy Listening
There are several reputable tube vendors that support the Asylum and our hobby/passion you might try to contact. Jim McShane and Tubemonger.com come to mind
Mike, thank you for getting back to me so quicky. May I ask who is Jim McShane? Not sure what you meant by "support" the Asylum.
Jim is solid as a rock, see the link below.
If you go to the home page(click on the circle to the upper left of this page). At the bottom you will see all the vendors and dealers that give paid support to keep this Asylum running.
Jim McShane is great, has good prices and good service.
Jim McShane also has the worst website in the world. I go blind trying to find a tube on his site.
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